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Romance vs Erotica: Finding a publisher

Thread starter DiloKeith
Start date Aug 8, 2011

DiloKeith

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Aug 8, 2011

#1

I just received word from a publisher that my story made it to the final line editor but didn't have enough emotion and romance. I doubt I'm going to have much more, so I'm trying to find a better fit. It's m/m with some BDSM and only 12K words, so that probably limits my options to a small handful. I visited web sites of publishers claiming to want both erotica and romance, but the fine print seems to be saying they want romance. Personally, I don't need romance with my erotica. My stories have hints of romance, but my characters are already in love. I explore their sexual relationships.

So far, I've found a few publishers that take m/m short stories:

Phaze
Ellora's Cave
Samhain
Torquere
Total E-Bound
Dreamspinner

I think most of these want more romance than I offer. (One might work). So, I'm looking for ideas for publishers and/or thoughts about the whole romance vs erotica issue. I might be approaching this wrong.

veinglory

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Aug 8, 2011

#2

Possibly: Breathless, Cobblestone, Etopia, ManLoveRomance, Shadowfire, Storm Moon or Xcite?

pandora

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Aug 8, 2011

#3

Sorry to hear that, Dilokeith. How about "sexy shorts" at Whiskey Press?

Your man dolls alway make me chuckle, btw

Fruitbat

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Aug 8, 2011

#4

DK, this is just a guess, but minus a lot of emotion and romance, might it fit better with erotica that's aimed at gay males rather than straight females?

DiloKeith

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Aug 8, 2011

#5

Fruitbat said:
DK, this is just a guess, but minus a lot of emotion and romance, might it fit better with erotica that's aimed at gay males rather than straight females?

Yes, the men who regularly read for me haven't mentioned a lack of romance, but I haven't found relevant publishers. I usually read material aimed at gay men.

And thanks, veinglory and pandora.

tedi.s

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Aug 8, 2011

#6

DK, so sorry to hear that. I have read some of your stuff and I never thought about the romance as they were already established couples and wooing didn't see so necessary. But I tend to view things a lot like a male so, yea, I guess I think like your betas. I really hope you find a perfect fit!

SafetyDance

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Aug 9, 2011

#7

DiloKeith said:
I just received word from a publisher that my story made it to the final line editor but didn't have enough emotion and romance.

That is your problem, right there. You can absolutely write and place erotica that would not be classed as romance (ie does not follow a romantic arc)--it's harder, but it can be done. But if you don't have enough emotion, that is a problem with your story, not the market. Just because you are exploring things sexually does not mean you don't need emotional conflict.

Emotional conflict isn't always lovey-dovey stuff, but it is about exploring what is inside your character's heads just as much as what happens to their bodies. It's even more important when you're writing BDSM.

Have a google for "BDSM for writers"--there are some good articles out there about the mental side of the dynamic.

DiloKeith

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Aug 9, 2011

#8

@SafetyDance - Good points, thanks. In this case, I was given reason to believe it's a market fit problem. Thanks also for the tip on the BDSM for writers blog. I'm very experienced in BDSM - teaching as well as practicing - but I can always learn more.

@Tedi - Thanks. I sort of expected that. I feel good about them wanting to see other submissions from me. My Dom thinks I shouldn't try to rewrite this story.

Last edited: Aug 9, 2011

veinglory

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Aug 9, 2011

#9

There is a fairly limited number of paying markets in the gay male area (not M/M) these days, and they tend to be less online than the erotic romance crowd.

DiloKeith

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Aug 9, 2011

#10

Thanks, veinglory. While I'm strongly influenced by gay male erotica, I think I'm still within the limits of "m/m" erotica and not ready to abandon that market.

c.m.n.

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Aug 9, 2011

#11

I don't really have an answer DK, as it seems I'm in the opposite side of the boat.
Instead of not enough emotion, I tend to not have enough 'hot steamy smex' - as per my last publisher submission.

But I'm also in a loop between erotic romance vs. erotica.

And I do hope you find someone who will take your shorts because I really like your writing

nevealane

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Aug 10, 2011

#12

Have you tried Excessica - they have varied genres even down to 'dubious consent' I would try there...►

excessica.com/store/catalog/ - Cached
Excessica : - Genre: Anthologies,Genre: Humor,Genre: BDSM,Genre ...

DiloKeith

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Aug 10, 2011

#13

Thanks, and good idea. Unfortunately, Excessica is closed to new submissions now.

Last edited: Aug 20, 2011

dangerousbill

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Aug 10, 2011

#14

DiloKeith said:
Thanks, veinglory. While I'm strongly influenced by gay male erotica, I think I'm still within the limits of "m/m" erotica and not ready to abandon that market.

I'm puzzled. What is the difference between gay male and m/m?

DiloKeith

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Aug 10, 2011

#15

I wanted to find some saved links and AW threads to answer Bill, but I don't see them. I'm going to try to answer. Gay male involves real gay males. Usually written by and for. That doesn't mean women aren't sometimes involved on one or both sides, but it reflects gay "culture" and "sensibilities". (Sorry about the terminology - I'm taking some shortcuts here.) M/M is more of a romance genre involving gay males in relationships with each other. Some say it's how predominantly straight women want to see men together. You know, if one man is hot, two would be hotter. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's often not a reflection of "real" gay men. Differences include both specific content and the style. I can send or post more info when I find everything.

ETA: Please don't take this a judgment about m/m. I'm just trying to answer the question about what the difference is when people speak of one.

Last edited: Aug 10, 2011

c.m.n.

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Aug 10, 2011

#16

I don't know how this press is, but I ran into them last night when I was searching for anthology submissions. Starbooks Press.

veinglory

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Aug 10, 2011

#17

dangerousbill said:
I'm puzzled. What is the difference between gay male and m/m?

They are fuzzy and overlapping categpories but M/M is used to refer mainly to fandom and erotic romance predominantly written by and marketed to women. Gay male is predominantly written by and marketed to gay men. There is a fair amount of overlap in both the writership and readership. The clearest division would be on the basis of publisher.

Dark River

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Aug 11, 2011

#18

I have a question. Are erotica and explicit novels that different? I have a short novel I wrote for an on-line publisher that went out of business. Does anyone ask for explicit, versus erotic, or or they considered to be in the same genre? (They won't let me into the erotic forum yet.)

dangerousbill

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Aug 11, 2011

#19

Dark River said:
I have a question. Are erotica and explicit novels that different? I have a short novel I wrote for an on-line publisher that went out of business. Does anyone ask for explicit, versus erotic, or or they considered to be in the same genre? (They won't let me into the erotic forum yet.)

Erotica covers a lot of territory, from suggestive to explicit, and often aims at specific readerships. The kind of m/m popular with women is still erotica, BDSM is also erotica, although the readerships are often completely separate. Stories classed as erotic these days are usually fairly explicit just because increased explicitness is being tolerated in mainstream literature and primetime small screen.

Safe to say that an erotic story is one in which sex plays an essential role in the plot and characterization.

On the other hand, I've wondered sometimes whether erotica is a real genre at all. Perhaps it only exists in hyphenated form: erotic-romance, erotic paranormal, erotic scifi, etc. If the story consists purely of sexual acts with no storyline or context, I think that's what they call porn, because most of it is actually quite dull and lacking any imaginative input.

Last edited: Aug 11, 2011

veinglory

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Aug 11, 2011

#20

That would depend on what you mean by explicit? Explicitly described, positively-experienced sex is more or less what erotica is.

dangerousbill

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Aug 11, 2011

#21

veinglory said:
They are fuzzy and overlapping categpories but M/M is used to refer mainly to fandom and erotic romance predominantly written by and marketed to women. Gay male is predominantly written by and marketed to gay men. There is a fair amount of overlap in both the writership and readership.

This is the first time I knew there was a distinction. Thanks.

Cat Laurelle

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Aug 21, 2011

#22

nevealane said:
Have you tried Excessica - they have varied genres even down to 'dubious consent' I would try there...►

excessica.com/store/catalog/ - Cached
Excessica : - Genre: Anthologies,Genre: Humor,Genre: BDSM,Genre ...

Is what they are selling short stories or novels? I'm not seeing word legnth or number of pages in their ads.

DiloKeith

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Aug 22, 2011

#23

Cat Laurelle said:
Is what they are selling short stories or novels? I'm not seeing word legnth or number of pages in their ads.

On the list, you can estimate by price. For example, $3.99 turns out to be 50K, usually considered novel length. Once you click on the individual books, the exact word count is at the end of the description.

Captcha

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Aug 22, 2011

#24

Have you actually tried submitting to Dreamspinner? They're definitely more m/m than gay (although they have some gay men writing for them), but apparently they're moving beyond traditional literary boundaries. Teddypig was complaining about it a while ago - "This isn't even a Romance!" So Teddypig's loss could be your gain?

DiloKeith

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Aug 22, 2011

#25

Captcha said:
Have you actually tried submitting to Dreamspinner? They're definitely more m/m than gay (although they have some gay men writing for them), but apparently they're moving beyond traditional literary boundaries. Teddypig was complaining about it a while ago - "This isn't even a Romance!" So Teddypig's loss could be your gain?

If you mean me, no - they seemed (to me) clearly interested in romance, more so than others. Maybe I was wrong.

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