UF set outside the US

[IdiotsRUs]

So, I got this idea....and it's itching at my brain. ANd I was wondering, is there much of a market for UF where the U in question is a city that isn't in the US? Most of (read virtually all) the UF I've read is set in US (real or fictive) cities.

Am I hampering myself, marketing/selling it, if I set it somewhere else? Because I don;t think I'd could write about an American city realistically. I might use google maps etc, but it'd be the slang, the shop names, the brand names etc that would stymie me.

Now, I have read a couple of UK based UF books, but I don't think they've been widely distributed in the US, whereas UF set in US cities is all over Waterstone's bookshelves.

Is this street one way?

If I write a UF set in Brighton, would it appeal to a US audience do you think (I'll try to keep the obscure slang to a minimum :D)

[Adam]

American based UF appeals to UK readers, so I don't see why it wouldn't work the other way around. Perhaps I'm looking at it too simplistically though.

Adam, who has two UFs set in the UK. :)

[dolores haze]

I used Paris for a wee UF short I did. And I think Edinburgh would make an amazing setting. A Brighton setting would appeal to me, but I'm hardly your typical American reader.

[Tasmin21]

Simon R. Green's Nightside series is set in London, and Sergei Lukyanenko's Night Watch books are all set in Moscow. Granted, both of these authors are native to their environments, and were published there first before finding popularity abroad.

Ekatarina Sedia's The Secret History of Moscow is also Moscow-based UF, and was released in the States first.

I have heard, however, of an author who wanted to write a UF based in a Canadian city and received the advice to just make it an American city because no one in the US would buy a book set in Canada.

I think, basically, the message is, no one knows the answer, but if it's a good book, it'll sell regardless.

[IdiotsRUs]

received the advice to just make it an American city because no one in the US would buy a book set in Canada.

This is what I was afraid of.

[yttar]

The Riley Jensen guardian series takes place in Australia.

Yttar

[veinglory]

Tanya Huff's very popular urban fantasy vampire books are set in Toronto.

[Kitty Pryde]

I want to read your UK UF! We have a handful of UF set in London readily available here, I think. That Sixty One Nails series or whatev, Neverwhere, The Marbury Lens, Midnight Riot series, Felix Castor novels, The Enemy/The Dead by Charlie Higson, Soulless by Gail Carriger. Robert Rankin and Tom Holt novels are even starting to be half-assedly available here in the states. Have you read The Brightonomicon? Just saying.

And Zoo City has done really well, set in JoBurg. Oh, and Snake Agent--UF set somewhere in China I believe.

[IdiotsRUs]

Nice reccs :D

I was wondering more about stuff that released in teh US before or same time as elsewhere, or initially by a US publisher (Zoo City for instance is pubbed by a Brit publisher). I'm not sure whether any of those were US first?

[Kitty Pryde]

Nice reccs :D

I was wondering more about stuff that released in teh US before or same time as elsewhere, or initially by a US publisher (Zoo City for instance is pubbed by a Brit publisher). I'm not sure whether any of those were US first?

Soulless, The Marbury Lens, and Snake Agent were all published in the US first, from USian authors. And one more: No Hero (expat author living in the US, US publisher). I feel like Nightshade and Angry Robot would be the most likely places for books like this (AR is a UK publisher but they are very widely available here in the US unlike most others).

[IdiotsRUs]

Ah, right, excellent, so it wouldn't be a total wash out. Yeah Angry Robot did Zoo City, and have some excellent books.

Of course the one person I could ask and would give me a definitive answer is away at a conference :D I shall ask when he's back.

Just wanted to know on market etc before I get too into it, or whether I should concentrate on something else.

[Yāoguài]

In London, we have Kate Griffin's Matthew Swift series, Mike Shevdon's Courts of the Feyre, Caitlin Kittredge's Black London series, and Mike Carey's Felix Castor.

Karen Marie Moning's Fever series is set in Dublin.

Kelley Armstrong's Bitten is set in Toronto.

[bettielee]

You know some of us are Anglophiles. And the gritty streets of London or Manchester or {insert name of gritty city in the UK} are perfect for UF!

But you know I'd read a laundry list set in the UK, so.... :)

[Adam]

* Spuds
* Crisps
* Meat 'n potato pies
* Proper cheese
* Irn Bru

You're welcome. ;)

ETA - Wait, that's a shopping list not a laundry list...

Still, I'm not deleting it. I own up to my stupidity! :D

[veinglory]

You forgot the Jaffa Cakes.

[bettielee]

* Spuds
* Crisps
* Meat 'n potato pies
* Proper cheese
* Irn Bru

You're welcome. ;)

ETA - Wait, that's a shopping list not a laundry list...

Still, I'm not deleting it. I own up to my stupidity! :D

you know how to sweet talk a girl, Adam.

[Adam]

You forgot the Jaffa Cakes.

*Slaps forehead.*

you know how to sweet talk a girl, Adam.

How'd ya think I snagged Brain "future Mrs. Slade" Storm77? ;)



Slightly more on topic - Loving the suggestions for non-US UF! I need more UF on my Kindle. ;)

[IdiotsRUs]

Thanks guys. I shall run with it for now.

Also: Jammy dodgers!

[Yāoguài]

Tanya Huff's Blood series is also in Toronto.

[serabeara]

I like Simon R Green's Nightside series, set in London.

[Parametric]

Mine is set in Bristol. :D

[Sophia]

Soulless, The Marbury Lens, and Snake Agent were all published in the US first, from USian authors.

Snake Agent is by Liz Williams - she's definitely a Brit. :)

Snake Agent (and the others in that series) and Zoo City are my recommendations, too. Doing a quick Google search, I see links to agents and magazines specifically saying they're looking for urban fantasy set outside the US. That might be one reason to be hopeful that it will be a section of the genre that will gain in popularity in the near future.

I don't know about the US audience, but I'd love to read urban fantasy set in British towns and cities, or anywhere around the world.

[Polenth]

It seems such books are more likely to sell first (rather than after success elsewhere) in the US when they're written by a US author (so filtered through that cultural lens, rather than a native approach). The Carriger books are a good example, because it's blatantly obvious to me she's not from the UK, but many US readers don't see it. It's a case of wanting other locations, but still wanting them Americanised.

Personally, if I had a UK-based novel idea I really wanted to write, I'd do so anyway. But I've used the same approach to shorts and my more obviously British stories have always gone down like lead balloons in US markets... so I can't say the approach has worked for me so far.

[IdiotsRUs]

Good points there

I shall be stalking a few Americans to beta read for me, see if they get the lingo :D If it makes sense to them in context, hopefully that would help!

I know that Bettie didn't get my saveloy reference the other day :D

[Stormhawk]

Mine's set in Brisbane (Australia), and a decent percentage of my readers are from Europe - who have said they like the break from reading a US-based story.

(My challenge though, is actually convincing other Aussies to read it. >_>).

[Kitty Pryde]

Good points there

I shall be stalking a few Americans to beta read for me, see if they get the lingo :D If it makes sense to them in context, hopefully that would help!

I know that Bettie didn't get my saveloy reference the other day :D

You English types with your funny talking! :D I think maybe I told you about how I tried to order coffee at Starbucks and Costa in England like three different times, yet failed every single time.

Barista lady: "Will you be drinking in?"
Me, in my head: Drinking in? ...DRINKING IN WHAT? Drinking in a cup? WHAT IS HAPPENING TO ME I JUST WANT A COFFEE???
Me, out loud: "Um, er, um, I, um...uh..."
Barista lady, in her head: Wow, Americans really are as dumb as everyone always says they are.
Barista lady, out loud as though she is serving coffee to a five-year-old: "Are you drinking it here, or taking it with you?"
Me: *dies of coffee humiliation*

My fellow USians know that the correct question is "Fer here er ta go? :D

[eyeblink]

Ah, right, excellent, so it wouldn't be a total wash out. Yeah Angry Robot did Zoo City, and have some excellent books.


Angry Robot did Zoo City more or less simultaneously with a South African publisher. Beukes's first novel Moxyland was published in SA first before Angry Robot picked it up.

The same as with another AW-er we both know with a WIP set in Southampton (which I know quite well, having been to University there), I would be happy to read a novel set in Brighton, and in other British cities that don't get many novels set in them.

My own WIP isn't urban fantasy, but it's set in a fictional southern English town quite a bit like my local area. I've never lived in the USA and only visited the country once so far, and there's no way I could do a convincing job of setting a novel there without so much input from a US-based beta that it would be effectively a collaboration. And besides which, certain social nuances which inform my central character wouldn't work in a US setting. So I'm sticking with a UK one and we'll have to see if UK-based LGBT YA will fly with a publisher once the novel gets as far as being submitted.

[eyeblink]

Good points there

I shall be stalking a few Americans to beta read for me, see if they get the lingo :D If it makes sense to them in context, hopefully that would help!

I know that Bettie didn't get my saveloy reference the other day :D

I've just had a beta crit from a non-Brit-resident - they clearly don't serve J2O in pubs where she is as she didn't know what that was.

Personally, if I had a UK-based novel idea I really wanted to write, I'd do so anyway. But I've used the same approach to shorts and my more obviously British stories have always gone down like lead balloons in US markets... so I can't say the approach has worked for me so far.

On the other hand, my first SF/F genre short story sale (and my fourth story sale of any kind) was a story set in Cornwall, England, and it sold to F & SF (published then in Cornwall, Connecticut, though I doubt that had anything to do with it). Mind you, one of the major characters was American.

[Polenth]

On the other hand, my first SF/F genre short story sale (and my fourth story sale of any kind) was a story set in Cornwall, England, and it sold to F & SF (published then in Cornwall, Connecticut, though I doubt that had anything to do with it). Mind you, one of the major characters was American.

By obviously British, I meant the slang, dialects and customs. If it sounds like it could be American, but happens to be set in London, that isn't an issue. But there's a line where it starts to sound too British. It's hard to explain better than that, but I tend to know now when a story has crossed it and will be hard to sell to a US place.

[eyeblink]

By obviously British, I meant the slang, dialects and customs. If it sounds like it could be American, but happens to be set in London, that isn't an issue. But there's a line where it starts to sound too British. It's hard to explain better than that, but I tend to know now when a story has crossed it and will be hard to sell to a US place.

True, but that story wasn't written with an American audience in mind, and I don't think it made many concessions. I only sent it to F & SF because I'd had an encouraging reject from another story and that was the best one I had to hand at the time - it had been rejected from a certain British-based SF magazine. So I guess there are degrees of Britishness.

Some details can be changed in copy-editing. Someone I know sold a story in the US and "aspirin" had to be changed to "tylenol". Or if your story is set in Australia, Burger King over there is called Hungry Jack's.

[Liosse de Velishaf]

Some details can be changed in copy-editing. Someone I know sold a story in the US and "aspirin" had to be changed to "tylenol". Or if your story is set in Australia, Burger King over there is called Hungry Jack's.


Eh, why? That makes no sense...

The Burger King thing makes sense, at least, since "Hungry Jack's" is a brand of syrup/pancake batter here.



Personally, I would love to read some UF set in non-US cities. And the less American-y it is, the better.

[eyeblink]

Eh, why? That makes no sense...



Maybe it was "paracetamol" that needed to be changed - I forget.

[IdiotsRUs]

Yeah, that's the thing - how British is too British? The saveloys are going to have to change! Hmm maybe she'll have battered sausage instead. And he'll probably have to have cod instead of huss.

Oh, the things we do for art! lol.

It's the first time I've ever set anything other than a short in this world, and my Britishness is really apparent.

PS: You all know what a chippie is, right? Right?!? What about the British Legion? Remembrance poppies?

[bearilou]

Personally, I'd love to read more UF not based in the US. :e2cheer:

[K.L. Townsend]

Simon R. Green's Nightside series is set in London, and Sergei Lukyanenko's Night Watch books are all set in Moscow. Granted, both of these authors are native to their environments, and were published there first before finding popularity abroad.

Ekatarina Sedia's The Secret History of Moscow is also Moscow-based UF, and was released in the States first.

I have heard, however, of an author who wanted to write a UF based in a Canadian city and received the advice to just make it an American city because no one in the US would buy a book set in Canada.

I think, basically, the message is, no one knows the answer, but if it's a good book, it'll sell regardless.

That's too bad. I love American settings, especially areas I am not familiar with, but I would so read an UF set in Canada.

[Kitty Pryde]

Yeah, that's the thing - how British is too British? The saveloys are going to have to change! Hmm maybe she'll have battered sausage instead. And he'll probably have to have cod instead of huss.

Oh, the things we do for art! lol.

It's the first time I've ever set anything other than a short in this world, and my Britishness is really apparent.

PS: You all know what a chippie is, right? Right?!? What about the British Legion? Remembrance poppies?

I know what those things are, but I think the average American reader does not. But you can always write with intention of telling the audience what they are i spose.

[K.L. Townsend]

Yeah, that's the thing - how British is too British? The saveloys are going to have to change! Hmm maybe she'll have battered sausage instead. And he'll probably have to have cod instead of huss.

Oh, the things we do for art! lol.

It's the first time I've ever set anything other than a short in this world, and my Britishness is really apparent.

PS: You all know what a chippie is, right? Right?!? What about the British Legion? Remembrance poppies?

That's the big question, right?

I'd say British enough to make it different/intriguing but not British enough to make it alien.

That is so not helpful, I know. But I think that is the comfort zone many American readers might be after.

[IdiotsRUs]

yeah, that's a fine line.

The chippie at least should be obvious when he buys his fish and chips there :D Context, must remember context.

[Liosse de Velishaf]

Maybe it was "paracetamol" that needed to be changed - I forget.


That would be much more logical.

[Steph King]

Of course the one person I could ask and would give me a definitive answer is away at a conference :D I shall ask when he's back.

I'm in the same boat, final revisions of an UF set in a fictional version of Watford (whyyyyy?), so it would be a huge help if you could post the answer when you catch up with them.

Steph

[areteus]

I've been pondering bloggage and wondering about Urban Fantasy...

Now, the standard form of Urban fantasy seems to be very American - it's big US cities (Jim Butcher's Chicago, for example) and the like. I've been racking (or should that be wracking?) my brains for some examples of urban fantasy set in other places. I've come up with only a few and I am not sure if they even count...

Currently I have:

The Night Watch books (Russian)
Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere (is it UF? Hard to say...)
Mike Carey's Felix Castor novels (which are currently the closest I can think of to British Urban fantasy)
China Mielville's King Rat (again, is it UF? Maybe not by some current definitions...)

So, are there any more I should be thinking of here?

[Parametric]

I'm a major fan of Ben Aaronovitch's Rivers of London, an urban fantasy series with a particularly British flavour.

[IdiotsRUs]

I've got a UF set in Brighton on first draft.:D

Try Madness of Angels, Kate Griffin and Rivers of London, Ben Aaronovitch (hugely good. Called Midnight Riot in teh US I think)

I did ask around a while ago before I started my Brighton WIP, and teh consensus is that there is for sure a market for non-US UF, if that's what you're wondering.

[Tasmin21]

Simon R Green's Nightside series is set in London. (well...some version of London. ;) )

[hillaryjacques]

Suzanne McLeod's Spellcrackers.com (http://www.spellcrackers.com/) series.

[areteus]

So, there is some out there?

It wasn't so much 'is there space for this?' (I don't think my stuff qualifies as UF :) but I might dabble in something similar to it sometime soon...) but rather 'does it exist?' as well as considerations about style differences. For example, the big part of 'urban' in some American UF is the big city and its a big city with gritty undertones and massive sky scrapers. While some UK cities have skyscrapers they are generally smaller. I wondered, basically, if Brit UF would have a different feel to it, maybe take itself less seriously in the style of Sean of the Dead and so on.

I might check out some of those suggestions... though shocked that I have to wait for one of them to be published! Hurry up and finish it! :)

[hillaryjacques]

One of the things that I find most interesting, areteus, are the different elements that can be brought in due to a city's history. To my mind, that increases the potential for "home-grown" paranormal or supernatural elements in cities that have been large for centuries beyond those found in the States.

[IdiotsRUs]

Well, Chicago is not LA is not Miami is not London is not Manchester is not Brighton..

Cities have a different feel, even in the same country. Get the feel of the city right and you're there

Also British UF will be more likely to use the word 'bollocks' :D

[Ambri]

Well, Chicago is not LA is not Miami is not London is not Manchester is not Brighton..

Cities have a different feel, even in the same country. Get the feel of the city right and you're there



This is exactly what I was thinking. The last UF novel I read was set in Tucson, which is a medium-sized city, as far as I know, and the author did a great job of describing both the city and the desert landscape. I think in this genre (and in good SFF in general) the setting can really add a lot of depth to the story.

[jjdebenedictis]

I'll ditto the recommendation for A Madness of Angels by Kate Griffin. Great book, and the magic system was very specific to London.

[RichardFlea]

...or older stuff...

'Roofworld' by Christopher Fowler could only work in London as it needs lotsa 3 to 5 story buildings. Same with 'Dark is Rising' by Susan Cooper (YA-UF?). Pick a city that has something special to offer and work on that and you have a nifty UF.

[JimmyB27]

Hmm...I suddenly have the urge to write a UF book in the style of Lock Stock/Snatch....

[holy_shiitake]

I'm considering doing my UF novel in Paris (my mythology springs off all the gargoyles on the churches there). But really, any place with lots of old-time gargoyles on the architecture of their buildings would do. As a Francophile American, it means I get to play around in one of my favorite cities while bending the physics of the place as it suits the story. The one major drawback is the amount of research I'd have to do in order to strike a familiar tone in the story as I've never visited the place myself. And London does still have a decent number of gargoyles; I'd be more familiar with placing the story there than Paris. Would you read a UF novel set in Paris, though? I sure would, but I'm not sure about anyone else!

[JoyceChng]

My UF series is set in Singapore. I personally want to see more stories coming from Southeast Asia.


Joyce