Sending off a full ms: practical questions...

[aruna]

...about packaging. I know a ms should be sent with a big rubber band around it, and I even know what such a rubber band looks like, but where do you get them from? In the UK I've hunted them in every office supply store but their largest size is still too small - and anyway, to look professional it has to be just so: brown, flat, about 4 mm wide.

Also, mss should be packed in a box. in the UK that would be an A4 box, the size of an A4 ream. Where do you find them? Reams are sold in wrapping paper these days, the only boxes you find are big ones holding 5 reams.

I post them in big padded envelopes; that's no problem. I send them through Staples: it costs £8, and you get next day delivery with tracking info.

I guess the box is optional, but I'd really like to get hold of those big rubber bands. Though, hopefully, I won't be needing them any more at some point - hopefully soon. But it's useful info for us all.

[scarletpeaches]

Could you get away with sending it in a box file? It's heavier, but it would hold a lot of pages. Of course, you'd still need to stop the pages jiggling about inside it by keeping them all secured together with said rubber band.

(PS: Seems like you were up as early as me, today, aruna. Insomnia got me up at 5am). :D

[aruna]

Yes - the rubber band is the essential ingredient. They must be available fromsomewhere - but where? I suppose you can buy them wholesale. If one of us does that we could start a little business, selling them off in two's and three's!

I'm always up at this time: 4 - 5 is the best time for writing!

[SeanDSchaffer]

I have a question too, if I could.

I've heard a lot of people refer to the boxes you're talking about. Are these like the ones you get stationery in and stuff like that?

Another thing: If I were to get hold of one, would I have to put it into an envelope to mail it?


As for the question about the rubber band, could it be, Aruna, that you're looking for it in the wrong place? Maybe if it's not originally intended for manuscripts, it wouldn't be sold in an office supply store.

The last time you saw one of these rubber bands, what was it wrapped around? That might give a clue as to where you can find one.

[aadams73]

I buy these boxes at Office Max and my ms fits perfectly:

http://tinyurl.com/cjc6o

You can also buy the big fat rubberbands there. I imagine most office supply stores have something similar.

[aruna]

I have a question too, if I could.

I've heard a lot of people refer to the boxes you're talking about. Are these like the ones you get stationery in and stuff like that?

Yes - in the UK they are A4 sized made of thin cardboard and holds a ms of up to 530 pages perfectly.



Another thing: If I were to get hold of one, would I have to put it into an envelope to mail it?

I think it's more a question of either - or. A ms also fits quite well i one of those large padded envelopes, if folded tightly so it doesn't move around. When Bloomsbury returnded my ms to me that was how it was packaged - a rubber band, and a padded envelope. I grabbed the rubber band and terasured it for re-use! Now it's gone....


As for the question about the rubber band, could it be, Aruna, that you're looking for it in the wrong place? Maybe if it's not originally intended for manuscripts, it wouldn't be sold in an office supply store.

The last time you saw one of these rubber bands, what was it wrapped around? That might give a clue as to where you can find one.

Well - the only time I've seen them is around manuscripts! The biggest office supply store in the UK is Staples, and they don't have them. Guess there aren't enough writers in the country. I'm sure there must be a wholesaler I could order from but who wants 100 huge rubber bands? A very depressing thought

[aruna]

I don't think they have that store here.

[scarletpeaches]

aruna - a friend of mine asked me to get something from a stationer's later so if I see those rubber bands I'll buy some and send you them! You never know, Scotland might have a rubber band shop somewhere!

Failing that, have you thought about mugging your postman?

[aruna]

Thanks! I'm going out myself to have another look in town.
I just heard back from the agent who is reading it at present, she had an exclusive and is enjoying it so far but needs more time. She accepts that I am sending it out to other agents who didn't ask for an exclusive, so now I'm going all out: two agents and an editor are getting my full ms and I need 3 rubber bands by TOMORROW!!!!

[scarletpeaches]

If I find some, I will buy them anyway - nothing like being optimistic about the partial I sent out yesterday, is there?

Plus they can be made available to others who need them. Oh well, good luck with the MS aruna - I'm in the middle of reading one of your books and I'll need you to publish another one soon. :D

[Jamesaritchie]

...about packaging. I know a ms should be sent with a big rubber band around it, and I even know what such a rubber band looks like, but where do you get them from? In the UK I've hunted them in every office supply store but their largest size is still too small - and anyway, to look professional it has to be just so: brown, flat, about 4 mm wide.

Also, mss should be packed in a box. in the UK that would be an A4 box, the size of an A4 ream. Where do you find them? Reams are sold in wrapping paper these days, the only boxes you find are big ones holding 5 reams.

I post them in big padded envelopes; that's no problem. I send them through Staples: it costs £8, and you get next day delivery with tracking info.

I guess the box is optional, but I'd really like to get hold of those big rubber bands. Though, hopefully, I won't be needing them any more at some point - hopefully soon. But it's useful info for us all.

Have you tried looking in the Staples product catelogue? I've picked up many things Staples didnt carry in the store by doing this. If it's in their catalogue they can get it for you quickly.

[aruna]

Damn! Ijust got back fromn staples and they also told me to look in the catalogue, but I completely forgot. I did get some fairly big rubber bands, but they are multicoloured and I fear still too small. Have to try them out. And they gave me some A4 cartons, which I may have to cut down to size....

[Jamesaritchie]

I always use the double box manuscript mailers. Anyone who needs them in A4 size may be in trouble, but for anyone else, I find these work best.

http://www.papyrusplace.com/

[Pat~]

I just mailed off a full manuscript this week, and used a black metal spring clip rather than a rubber band. It's preferred by the editors I've spoken with--but yours may prefer the rubber band...

Also, I've only mailed a full ms once in a box; because it was too big for the post office box, the editor had to wait in line for it at the post office, and I have a feeling that is not something they like to do. Of course, if your ms is too huge for the largest padded mailer, you may have no choice, but I always use a padded, waterproof mailer (found at Target). One other thing--at the conference this week, one editor complained about the padded mailers that are stuffed with shredded fuzzy stuff that gets all over their desk and papers when opened. You might want to use the mailers padded with bubble wrap, if you go that route.

[keltora]

I don't think they have that store here.

Office Depot, then?

Or Staples.

All office suppliers sell the boxes that easily hold a manuscript (unless it is a really fat one) and the rubberbands.

Personally, I use rubber bands, two sheets of cardboard (the backs off of legal pads) and a Tyvek mailer. Light, flexible but strong and waterproof.

Of course, these days since most of my book deals are made in person with editors I have worked with before, they generally just ask for an electronic copy instead.

Saves postage and printing.

[aruna]

Office Depot, then?

Or Staples.

All office suppliers sell the boxes that easily hold a manuscript (unless it is a really fat one) and the rubberbands.

.

Nope, I looked in all the office supplies stoees in my town, nothing. I am in the UK; perhaps in London, but not where I live. The boxes, too, are not available. They gave me some big boxes with lids (that used to hold reams of paper) and I wil just use the lids and some cardboard, or maybe cut the boxes down to size. I'll see how that goes.

[maestrowork]

Search online for document mailers. They come in different sizes. I got mine online -- 50 for about $75. I only used two. LOL. I think mine is 9x11x3.

I'm not fussy with rubber band, though. I got a big ball of them from Staples and off I went.

[Daughter of Faulkner]

Congratulations again, Aruna!

I get ask the clerk at local USPO desk for them. They have tons there for their mail and will give you a big hand full...

Try it.

[Jaycinth]

Go to a commercial printer. (A printer's printer..one that specializes in huge quantities of brochures, pamphlets, presentation folders and such in additon to letterheads.) They should have the rubber bands you are looking for, because they have to band finished product in 100's, 250's etc. They have to use those big bands because the small ones will destroy the finished product.
They also order boxes in all sizes and shapes and many keep around the materials necessary to 'make' a box out of another box. They may even have the size you need ready made!
Make friends with one of the counter people and you should be able to get them to sell you ( or give you!!) a couple of boxes and rubberbands. If not they can put you in contact with their supplier.

If you do wind up buying a big box of 100 rubberbands...who cares! I mean we are talking $4.99 to $6.99 US. Dollars. You can use the extra rubberbands for the next 99 manuscripts you send out, or, if you are only going to send out 50 more manuscripts you can use the rubberbands to secure trash can liners, old cards. Magazines. Hold boxes of pasta shut. You can even shoot them at your husband from across the room!

[Daughter of Faulkner]

Listen Aruna, my sense tells me that you are such an accomplished writer that it will not matter as to what kind of rubber band or mailer you use.
:Trophy:

I know you want to be professional and do everything just right too so do let us know the end to "The Quest for the Biggest Rubber Band in the UK."
:)
Take care.

[aruna]

Go to a commercial printer. (A printer's printer..one that specializes in huge quantities of brochures, pamphlets, presentation folders and such in additon to letterheads.) They should have the rubber bands you are looking for, because they have to band finished product in 100's, 250's etc. They have to use those big bands because the small ones will destroy the finished product.
They also order boxes in all sizes and shapes and many keep around the materials necessary to 'make' a box out of another box. They may even have the size you need ready made!
!

Excellent idea! I happen to use a printer regularly formy son's business so they already know me.. I'm going to go straight there tomorrow,

And to everyone else: thanks for all the suggestions! I htink it's more difficult in the UK simply because, being smaller, there just isn't a narket for writers' stuff.

[Jamesaritchie]

I just mailed off a full manuscript this week, and used a black metal spring clip rather than a rubber band. It's preferred by the editors I've spoken with--but yours may prefer the rubber band...

Also, I've only mailed a full ms once in a box; because it was too big for the post office box, the editor had to wait in line for it at the post office, and I have a feeling that is not something they like to do. Of course, if your ms is too huge for the largest padded mailer, you may have no choice, but I always use a padded, waterproof mailer (found at Target). One other thing--at the conference this week, one editor complained about the padded mailers that are stuffed with shredded fuzzy stuff that gets all over their desk and papers when opened. You might want to use the mailers padded with bubble wrap, if you go that route.

Interesting. Most of the editors I know really dislike clips of any kind. I hate those big ones.

I don't know anyone who likes padded mailers. It might be fine if only one writer used them, but when fifty or a hundred a month use them, you're soon knee deep in fuzzy stuff, and it get's in equipment, on your clothes, all over your desk. Bah. I've even seen guidelines where agents and editors asked writers to please not use them.

I've found the double box manuscript mailers are best all around. They're not only easier to handle, they also stack, and when a manuscript has to be returned it's already in the box and ready to go. No work at all for an agrent or editor. They don't even have to stamp or address it.

[maestrowork]

Padded mailers are no-no. A lot of agents/editors won't even open them exactly because of the fuzzy stuff. Don't give them any reasons to skip your ms.

Rubber bands are the best way to go.

Use document mailers -- they're relatively cheap, and they are very neat and do the job well. Post Office boxes are generally too big -- you either have to stuff it or you will have to use a smaller, inside box anyway. Just use a mailer -- one box, perfect fit.

[blacbird]

Where on earth does this "big rubber band" idea come from. No editor or agent I've ever contacted wants anything other than loose pages, and especally nothing like a rubber band that is guaranteed to crimp your manuscript. I've never seen such a recommendation in any published set of manuscript guidelines, either. Get a box or envelope of the proper dimensions to constrain the pages neatly without crimping.

bird

[Jamesaritchie]

Where on earth does this "big rubber band" idea come from. No editor or agent I've ever contacted wants anything other than loose pages, and especally nothing like a rubber band that is guaranteed to crimp your manuscript. I've never seen such a recommendation in any published set of manuscript guidelines, either. Get a box or envelope of the proper dimensions to constrain the pages neatly without crimping.

bird

Just because they don't ask doesn't mean they don't want. And sometimes guidelines do mention rubber bands. A big rubber band is a very good idea. Loose pages doesn't mean no rubber band, it means no binding, as with screenplays. A rubber band of the right size won't crimp anything, and loose pages are much more likely to get damaged than rubber banded pages. Not having one on a novel size manuscript can lead to all sorts of problems.

No rubber band means you can't stack a pile of manuscripts that aren't in a box, and you can't carry them around without risking scattering the thing over thrity square feet of floor, and you can't slip several of them in a briefcase or bag to take home on weekends.

If you don't put a rubber band around a manuscript, an agent or editor probably will. . .if they have one lying around. If not, then you manuscript is then a problem, and a potential disaster in the making.

And just imagine the chaos if a stack of twenty manuscripts got knocked off a desk, and none of them had rubber bands. I sure wouldn't want to be the person who had to sort them all out.

[Jamesaritchie]

Padded mailers are no-no. A lot of agents/editors won't even open them exactly because of the fuzzy stuff. Don't give them any reasons to skip your ms.

Rubber bands are the best way to go.

Use document mailers -- they're relatively cheap, and they are very neat and do the job well. Post Office boxes are generally too big -- you either have to stuff it or you will have to use a smaller, inside box anyway. Just use a mailer -- one box, perfect fit.

The double boxes work better. The smaller, inside box is the one that's a perfect fit for manuscripts. No stuffing needed. The outer box is oversized, and is discarded as soon as an editor or agent receives it. Believe me, having been on the receiving end of such boxes, they're a blessing, and make life a whole lot easier. And save so much time you wouldn't believe it if you didn't experience it.

[Julie Worth]

Rubber band!

I've never used one. I pack the ms in a box, and if there's any extra space, I use bubble wrap underneath to fill it up. If the agent likes rubber bands around the ms, I bet he's got a whole box full in his desk.

[Bufty]

Aruna, try the local Bank or Building Society for these big rubber bands. We used to have drawerfuls of them.

[Jamesaritchie]

Rubber band!

I've never used one. I pack the ms in a box, and if there's any extra space, I use bubble wrap underneath to fill it up. If the agent likes rubber bands around the ms, I bet he's got a whole box full in his desk.



You'd think so, but it's not always the case. There's never a rubber band around when you need one. Though, yes, most agents and editors do try to keep a box of rubber bands handy simply because some writers don't include one.

But why make an agent or editor hunt for one? It's much easier to put one on and save them the frustration.

[Jaycinth]

You'd think so, but it's not always the case. There's never a rubber band around when you need one. Though, yes, most agents and editors do try to keep a box of rubber bands handy simply because some writers don't include one.

But why make an agent or editor hunt for one? It's much easier to put one on and save them the frustration.

This brings up another thing...I usually put a sheet of heavy cardstock (90lb bristol 8.5 x 11) on the bottom and a clear sheet of plastic ( the kind used in binding machines -also 8.5 x 11) on the top. Then I put my band around it. I thought that way the agent(or editor) would be able to read the title page, the manuscript has something protecting the bottom, and there was less danger of the rubberband constricting and crimping the pages.

Is this a good idea or should I scrap it and just use the bands?

[scarletpeaches]

I put the manuscript between two thick pieces of card, the cover letter on top of that and the rubber band (or two) round the manuscript width-ways.

Do people just put a width-ways band on, or one length-ways as well? Or is that one for the stupid question thread?

[SeanDSchaffer]

I put the manuscript between two thick pieces of card, the cover letter on top of that and the rubber band (or two) round the manuscript width-ways.

Do people just put a width-ways band on, or one length-ways as well? Or is that one for the stupid question thread?


In my experience with rubber bands and paper, if you were to put a rubber band lengthways over your manuscript, it could end up doing damage to the manuscript.

If I were to use rubber bands, I'd stick with width-ways, personally, and leave the length-ways ones out of the picture.

[Susan Gable]

Tyvek envelopes work great. I don't think I've often used a box. Here in the States I've found the Priority Mail envelopes work very well for a full ms. If I've used a box, it would have been a Priority Mail box, too.

Def. go with the rubber bands. :)

I have to ship my mss to Toronto, and most of us (the Super authors) have found that when you're rushing to meet a deadline, only Fed Ex can absolutely get it there for you. I do use their boxes when shipping my mss to my editor. It costs more, but too many folks have had mss get delayed with the PO - a very BAD thing when you're pushing the edge of the deadline.

Susan G.

[maestrowork]

Aruna, I just went to Staples for my supplies, and saw that they had the 9x12x2.5 boxes for sale. They'd be perfect for your ms. I think that's the similiar size as A4 in Britain? If you need a thicker box (if your ms. is longer than 500 pages) I think they have the 4" as well.

Crap, that reminds me... I forgot to buy the rubber bands...

[maestrowork]

The double boxes work better. The smaller, inside box is the one that's a perfect fit for manuscripts. No stuffing needed. The outer box is oversized, and is discarded as soon as an editor or agent receives it. Believe me, having been on the receiving end of such boxes, they're a blessing, and make life a whole lot easier. And save so much time you wouldn't believe it if you didn't experience it.

That's the problem -- finding a perfit fit inner box. I think that's the problem Aruna has originally, to find that box. The bigger outer box can be found at any post office. It's the document box that is hard to find.

[scarletpeaches]

What about two pieces of card to front and back the MS, rubber bands, then bung it all into a padded (with bubble-wrap) envelope? Would that be okay (to a UK agent/publisher of course)?

[aruna]

Aruna, try the local Bank or Building Society for these big rubber bands. We used to have drawerfuls of them.

I will; I also got a mail fromOld Hack (who at themoment is incapacitated but is obviously reading thies thread!) who recommends a postman's elastic band. I never heard of them, but they sound promising. I'll try to grab my postman this morning.

[aruna]

I already have a collection of large mailers - they have bubble-wrap linings, not the fuzzy stuff, so they are fine. They are also easy to open, self-sealing with a kind of glue that keeps them stuck fast, yet open with just a tug.
I haven't been able to find theboxes James speaks of here, i don't think we have them.
And yes, rubber bands are the most professional binding, and I've seen those rubber-banded mss stacked in agents' and editors' offices.
I'll try banks and post offices today for the rubber bands, and failing that I'll send them in the lids of the A4 boxes. Wrapped tightly in a bubble-wrap mailer that should be OK.

For those in the UK, here's my supplier for the mailers (size 10). My son bought them in bulk for his business so I have a generous supply of them:
http://www.allpack.co.uk/arofol.htm#AROFOL%20SELF%20SEAL%20POSTAL%20BAGS

[aruna]

I FOUND THEM!!!
First of all, I found my son's Office Depot catalogue, and they were in there: 160x6mm. Then I went to the Office Depot website and looked for them; that put me through to this website: (http://www.viking-direct.co.uk/(sxnm3x45fb2rjp55kmfnod55)/srchSkuResults.aspx?cache=true&searchString=rubber%20bands&searchSelectedDivision=00)
http://www.viking-direct.co.uk/
The ones I want are number 38, at the top of the list.
And I have ordered a box. So if anyone in the UK needs any, please mail me and I'll supply. I don't know how many are in the box but I truly, truly hope I won't need more than the six I'll need for three manuscripts. Yay!

[Julie Worth]

Looking for the inside scoop on rubber bands, I found this:

The Sobering Saga of Myrtle the Manuscript (http://www.sfwa.org/writing/myrtle2.htm)

Which was the way it used to work at The Twilight Zone magazine, or so the writer claims...sort of...because it seems that it was actually worse.

Of the six reasons to read a submission, one was because it was well written, and four because the writer was a big name or a relative. The final reason, like the first one, had to do with random effects.

[scarletpeaches]

I will; I also got a mail fromOld Hack (who at themoment is incapacitated but is obviously reading thies thread!) who recommends a postman's elastic band. I never heard of them, but they sound promising. I'll try to grab my postman this morning.

I said that first! I did I did!!!

On the first page of this thread, I suggested mugging your postman!

That's it. I'm in a huff with you now.:box:

[AncientEagle]

I just last week bought a packet of five manuscript boxes, 8 7/8" W by 11 1/8" L by 2 1/4" deep at Staples. They carry a variety of sizes.

Drat! Now I have to go back and ask them for rubber bands.

[aruna]

I said that first! I did I did!!!

On the first page of this thread, I suggested mugging your postman!

That's it. I'm in a huff with you now.:box:

Hangs head in shame and in a small voice says sorry....
yesterday I did mug my postman but though his band is the right wodth, it's still too small (would never fit around my massive 490 odd pages ms), and it's red...

Anyway, I'm hoping my box of right-sized bands comes today and I can send off the mss. If you or anyone else, especially UK, needs rubber bands please pm me!

[aruna]

OK, today a box arrived with several hundred rubber bands. They aren't quite the right ones; slightly smaller, slightly narrower that the right ones, but they'll do; they didn't bunch up my mss but fit snugly around them. And they're off!!!!!
Soon three agents and one editor will have full mss, alll solicited. I've never been in this situation before and it is strangely liberating; I have the feeling of "let the chips fall where they" may, and forget about it all. If I get four rejections, then so be it, but meanwhile, everything and anything goes. I'm thinking of taking bets...

And re those rubber bands, I'm very much hoping I won't need them all so if anyone needs a few, just ask....

[scarletpeaches]

I haven't had a request for a full one yet, aruna (HA! The oh-so-confident YET!) but here's hoping.

Oh, and I'm still reading OMA and as I'm enjoying it I'll forgive you for the grievous insult of forgetting I suggested mugging your postman first. :D

Me? Petty? Easily bought with chocolates or books? Never!