Bromance In YA

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mharvey

Liker Of Happy Things
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
1,861
Reaction score
235
Location
The Nexus
Hello all,

This came up in a discussion on a piece I've written. While it definitely still reads like a first draft and has issues, a surprising amount of folks have pointed out that they think my two male leads act, well... entirely too gay toward each other, and it seems to be a distraction for many.

While this was not intended, I re-evaluated the scene, looking for 'the gay'. There was no touching. Someone pointed out that the narrator checked out the other guy's wardrobe, used 'tasteful' to describe it (I will fix it to 'cool,' just because tasteful is a word adults use to describe someone's formal wear, sexuality not included, not 16 year old guys) .

Another pointed out tapping the chin is a feminine gesture, which the other was responsible for.

I think what it, mostly, boiled down to was this idea of two guys having a similar relationship as to what two straight girls might have. Guys don't usually have emotional relationships - as was cited in that thread: Guys are From Mars. Girls are From Venus.

They were able to sort of talk about their feelings in a way that I'll even admit... most guys can't. Like in one instance, one asks if the other guy trusts him, because the other didn't want to tell him something about his past.

The critique that obviously "two guys don't act like this!" cannot possibly fly, as I'm positive, given the sample size of the entire world, I can find two straight guys who do act like this... but I guess it boils down to a potential risk of alienating the reader.

So, I guess my questions for this thread boils down to these: Does "bromance" annoy you? When does it go beyond "bromance" to "ambiguously gay" or is it always ambiguously gay to even HAVE a bromance? Should the only books that have two guys who, essentially, come from Venus be labeled Gay/Lesbian? Do you even care? Do you like pie?

Please share your thoughts.
 
Last edited:

strawberryblondie

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 20, 2009
Messages
893
Reaction score
127
Location
Northern AZ
I love bromance, I think it's awesome. I have known several straight guys who act this way with each other, so I don't buy that particular critique. One of my favorite shows used to be Boy Meets World, which definitely deals with bromance and that was one of my favorite aspects.
 

Switch-Phase

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 14, 2010
Messages
311
Reaction score
27
Location
Neverwhere
I prefer bromance to macho guy steriotypes. If there isn't that close level of trust and kinship between characters, I won't care as much about what happens.

The whole reason many people love Supernatural is because of how openly explored the bond between Sam and Dean is.

Also, two of my buddies are twin straight brothers, and they're so close people joked that they're gay with each other. Didn't bother em lol
 

ryannj5

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
263
Reaction score
28
Location
the great north
I LOVE bromance in YA and would love to read more of it. Go for it! But of course it has to be believable for these two guys to have this close of a relationship.
 

thebloodfiend

Cory
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
3,771
Reaction score
630
Age
32
Location
New York
Website
www.thebooklantern.com
You can always hang a lampshade on it--have another character mention that they find the relationship unusual. Or have the guys themselves mention that their relationship is unusual.

This. Lampshade and bromance away.

I also hate macho-man friendships.

Really, I just like genuine interactions between characters. If they're overly affectionate and it fits, go for it. If they're really standoffish and brutish (firstly, why are they friends?) go for that too.
 

Mello Matsuri

I am also Severus.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 22, 2011
Messages
76
Reaction score
5
Location
New Mexico, United States of America
I actually like bromance, as long as it's done correctly. I really dislike gender stereotyping, too, and I'd like to see more guy/guy friendships that aren't typical videogame + chips = bro and bro hang out time that I keep seeing.

Even when the "bro's" are acting ambiguously gay, for some reason that just amuses me rather than annoys me.

Also, I do indeed like pie. But I've always enjoyed cupcakes and muffins more.
 

KTC

Stand in the Place Where You Live
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 24, 2005
Messages
29,138
Reaction score
8,564
Location
Toronto
Website
ktcraig.com
Go with what you want to go with.

One of the first novels I wrote...a few years ago now...was a YA about punk rock teenagers. My critique group offered their opinions on it and SO MANY TIMES they said or wrote those words "Two guys wouldn't act like this"

Bullshit. I was writing that novel from personal experience. In my circle, when I was a teenager, the boys DID act like that. 'they wouldn't touch like that' 'they wouldn't be that emotional' 'they wouldn't have that kind of relationship'. It angered me. It does happen. write it.
 

Shady Lane

my name is hannah
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
44,931
Reaction score
9,546
Location
Heretogether
You can always hang a lampshade on it--have another character mention that they find the relationship unusual. Or have the guys themselves mention that their relationship is unusual.

ding ding ding

bonus points if one of your guys IS gay. straight guy/gay guy best friends are rarely done in YA, and okay i just adore them.
 

Smish

Reads more than she writes.
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
8,636
Reaction score
3,087
Location
in the Bouncy Castle
ding ding ding

bonus points if one of your guys IS gay. straight guy/gay guy best friends are rarely done in YA, and okay i just adore them.

QFT.

However, it's okay if they're both straight. :)

I don't mind bromance at all. And yes, guys do act like that. Not all will be so open about it in public, but men have close relationships with friends just like women do.

Incidentally, that's one of the many things I love about John Green's novels. There's no hiding the bromance. ;)
 

Smish

Reads more than she writes.
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
8,636
Reaction score
3,087
Location
in the Bouncy Castle
Gotta also love Will Grayson and Tiny Cooper.

And Q and Radar and Ben.

And, of course, Colin and Hassan are fugging awesome, too. :D
 
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
11,042
Reaction score
841
Location
Second star on the right and on 'til morning.
Website
atsiko.wordpress.com
You can always hang a lampshade on it--have another character mention that they find the relationship unusual. Or have the guys themselves mention that their relationship is unusual.


Or, you could always, you know, not reinforce the stereotype that having a close relationship is unusual for guys. Saying "this sort of relationship is unusual" is as bad or worse as having stereotypical dude relationships in the story.


Also, isn't there a rule somewhere that you're not allowed to link to tvtropes without a written warning? :rant:
 

Shady Lane

my name is hannah
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
44,931
Reaction score
9,546
Location
Heretogether
Or, you could always, you know, not reinforce the stereotype that having a close relationship is unusual for guys. Saying "this sort of relationship is unusual" is as bad or worse as having stereotypical dude relationships in the story.

The AUTHOR isn't saying it's unusual, a CHARACTER is saying it's unusual, and due to said relationship existing DESPITE the confusion of said character, I believe we can safely say that such character is WRONG.
 

Becca C.

Registered
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Messages
4,536
Reaction score
558
Location
near Vancouver, BC
I like bromance, in YA and in real life. I can think of a bunch of pairs of guys who act like this, and sometimes they poke fun at each other about how close they are (gay jokes, but good-humoured ones -- "nah, he's not my type, lulz"), but it's completely natural.
 

sadbeautifultragic

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 15, 2011
Messages
734
Reaction score
83
Location
California, US
My MC and his best friend act gay towards each other (i.e. cute nicknames, joking loving words, like Becca C. said jokes about their closeness, etc.) and people find it hilarious/adorable. It's the way a lot of teenage guys act. I would know :)
This thing you've got going on sounds great. It's fine!!!
 
Last edited:

KosseMix

fixing a limp query...
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
760
Reaction score
67
Location
Westmont
Website
kossemix.blogspot.com
I write primarily gay romance, so I completely support the hint of a feeling I was getting in your work. I just didn't know if that's what you were trying to convey, or if it was an accident. If it feels right for the characters, it's right! Let them guide you.
 

Jehhillenberg

N/A
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 8, 2011
Messages
13,319
Reaction score
2,720
BROMANCES ARE THE BEST. I <3 that close relationship between guys. Ex: Boy Meets World: Shawn & Cory, I could go on, but I've made myself clear already. :)
 
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
11,042
Reaction score
841
Location
Second star on the right and on 'til morning.
Website
atsiko.wordpress.com
The AUTHOR isn't saying it's unusual, a CHARACTER is saying it's unusual, and due to said relationship existing DESPITE the confusion of said character, I believe we can safely say that such character is WRONG.


By consciously making the decision, as a result of advice given in this thread, to lampshade this aspect of the relationship, the author would be saying "I know this is not the way teen boys usually act, but... these characters are unusual." Because if the author hadn't thought of that aspect, then they wouldn't have felt the need to include that line. I can have "a character" give a long lecture on the evils of marijuana, but it's still pretty obvious who's really preaching at the reader.

After all, plenty of guys have relationships like this for various but long periods of time without ever feeling the need to say, "Man, I just noticed we have an atypical male-on-male relationship."
 

mccardey

Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Messages
20,175
Reaction score
18,540
Location
Australia.
Or, you could always, you know, not reinforce the stereotype that having a close relationship is unusual for guys. Saying "this sort of relationship is unusual" is as bad or worse as having stereotypical dude relationships in the story.

This. And more of this. Please.
 

Shady Lane

my name is hannah
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
44,931
Reaction score
9,546
Location
Heretogether
Which is not to say that lots of guys don't have bro-y, or just less involved relationships. They do. And the same guy can have different types of relationships with different people, or even the same person, depending on the circumstances. It's not an either or thing, it's a 3D continuum.

And adding these dimensions is SO important.

I don't disagree with you, not at all, and trust me, my books are ALL ABOUT tackling the norms of male/male relationships, be they romantic or not. But I also think that, sometimes, that tackling involves recognizing that, to other characters in that world, something is "outside" "weird" ("queer"?) It's not necessary, but it also isn't wrong; it's an issue that may or may not work depending on the story.

If these guys just have that relationship and it's not a plot point of any kind, totally no need to lampshade. But if it's something that you want to go deeply into in the story, I think it can only help to look at it from other angles...and those angles include those of other characters in the book.

And there is such a huge difference between having a character say something and having a diatribe from the author, and if those things are getting confused then the writer isn't doing his job.
 

Gemnyc

reading 24/7
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
357
Reaction score
70
Location
London. Then NYC. Now London
I love a good bromance! Can’t believe no one has mentioned JD and Turk from Scrubs. One of my all time favourite TV bromances. (now I have their ‘guy love’ song stuck in my head).

When I edit or beta read I always write a note along the lines of ‘You may not agree with everything that I’ve pointed out, in fact I don’t expect you to, but still think about why I have made that point.’ I only say this as your readers have pointed out that they see a gay relationship with your characters. So somewhere in your MS, the way your characters relationship has played out hasn’t seemed like a believable bromance to your readers. Do you have a backstory to support this close relationship? How are you showing the reader the relationship? Are your characters seemingly awkward in this situation and not behaving naturally?

Smish already mentioned Will Grayson, Will Grayson as a great bromance – I remember never questioning Will and Tiny’s friendship and how two such different people could such close friends (extrovert/introvert). The backstory and the interactions made this relationship so real and believable.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.