Student/Teacher cliches

JennieRose8 · Jul 3, 2011

Have you ever read a student/teacher romance? Do they gross you out or do you find them too unreal? Just wondering, because I'm writing one (which you can find in my signature), but it's actually not the typical, run-of-the-mill story and the girl is 18, guy is 24. So it's not like we've got a pedophile here. But I'd like to know how interesting this genre or cliche or whatever you want to call it is to the YA group.

Thanks for your replies.

Jen

Jehhillenberg · Jul 3, 2011

I actually had a fascination with this particular topic not long ago (and kinda still do). So I went searching for books on the subject (especially after a scandal broke out at my high school) and came across one that just made me lose my appetite and had me up for a year. I wrote a couple of mss on the subject and one is a suspense/contemporary piece. I think the topic is very common, but I love reading about that taboo, as long as it offers something insightful and goes in a different direction than the typical.

Kitty Pryde · Jul 3, 2011

To me it's bleh, because of the huge power imbalance involved. Sure it's legal, sure she can give consent, sure she can have a crush, but is it an ethical thing for the teacher to do? And I know when people are in love they don't give a shit about anything anyone thinks because they are certain that their love is a unique and beautiful blossom, the likes of which the planet earth has never seen. But it's still skeevy. [True story digression: a close friend in high school was MADLY in love with our 50 year old teacher (in everyone's defense he was as active as a 30 year old and as handsome as a 40 year old) who was quite a favorite amongst the students. We sort of laughed about her infatuation, and I suspect that she tried to make something happen, even though he was in a LTR at the time. She failed.

She went off to college...blah blah blah...master's degree...and eight years after high school the two of them got together and have been deliriously happy ever since. I think it's sweet. If they'd hooked up in the summer after HS graduation, a whole lot of people would have been appalled. But he waited until he didn't have any of that teacher power over her and their love was still there.]

Polenth · Jul 4, 2011

Given the 'Pretty Little Liars' series MTV keeps trying to throw at me has a student dating her teacher, I don't think you'll have an issue with interest in the topic. Whether people will see it as icky or cute depends.

When I was a student, one of my teachers married a former student. In that case, due to the personalities involved and the exact circumstances, those of us who knew him saw it as cute rather than icky. The short version would be they knew each other outside of school (hence a different power balance), and both followed a no-sex-before-marriage rule, which shifted it to romantic rather than sexual.

areteus · Jul 4, 2011

It may be legal but ethically it is wrong if she is one of his students. It is actually one of the things that can get you disbarred from the GTC regardless of whether the student is legally over age of consent or not. This is because (at least in this country) even at 18 there is still a duty of care.

In fact, even talking to a pupil or student on something like MSN or YIM can get you fired if caught and this applies to any staff in a school or college, even those who are not 'professionals subject to a code of conduct'.

Of course, that is where all your conflict and drama lie

JennieRose8 · Jul 4, 2011

Yes, Aretus, all of that creates great conflict.

. Thank you all for your replies- it's tempting to address each of your comments, defending my story (because I know something you don't know, hehehe), but I don't wanna give it all away. Mine is different, let's leave it at that- though I intend to put of a summary on my site to give readers a better idea of what's up.

More to say later. Right now I'm on my iPhone. Not easy to type on this lil keypad.

KimJo · Jul 4, 2011

I went to high school with two girls who each married one of their teachers right after graduation. In one case, we had to talk a male friend of the girl out of going homicidal on the teacher's ass...That couple's still together; the other couple ended up divorced. There was a much larger age difference in the second case; the girl was my age, 18, and the guy had been a high school classmate of my father's, which made him around 45 at the time. In the first case, the teacher was about 30.

JennieRose8 · Jul 4, 2011

KimJo said:
I went to high school with two girls who each married one of their teachers right after graduation. In one case, we had to talk a male friend of the girl out of going homicidal on the teacher's ass...That couple's still together; the other couple ended up divorced. There was a much larger age difference in the second case; the girl was my age, 18, and the guy had been a high school classmate of my father's, which made him around 45 at the time. In the first case, the teacher was about 30.

'
Wow, that's quite an age difference in both cases. I wouldn't be comfortable with that, unless they waited until she turned around 24-25.

When I was 18, I married a 25 year old (not my teacher, though. LOL), so this type of age difference is nothing to me.

JennieRose8 · Jul 4, 2011

Seriously, I appreciate everyone's feedback. I don't feel my story is too far on the unrealistic side after reading this.

Marzipan · Jul 4, 2011

I'm going to say hang ethics. It isn't unrealistic and it happens often. When I was in high school the same situation happened. One eighteen year old student and a 24 year old health teacher fell in love and married a year before she graduated. It's up to you. If this is what you want to write about then go for it.

Mandiloo322 · Jul 4, 2011

I think it's fine. You'll definitely have interest! I do wonder... if it takes the "cute/romantic" spin, it seems easily YA, but if it's more the "icky" spin it might be more of a thriller/suspense genre? Still in the YA shelf but maybe in a different spot. Either way, there's plenty of ways you can do it so I think you should go for it.

Becca C. · Jul 4, 2011

My MC ends up in a relationship with his former high school liaison police officer, but he's 18 and graduated so it's legal. There is a weirdness factor for them, though. I think that's important to acknowledge. There should be at least a few moments where they sit back and go "...whoa, weird, this is the guy who taught me about mitosis/Oxford commas/how drugs are bad."

thebloodfiend · Jul 4, 2011

.... one of the many reasons I didn't like Rose/Dimitri was because he was her teacher. Squicky.

I do not like unbalanced relationships that are portrayed as cute and fuzzy. That being said, it adds interesting conflict if done the right way. I mean, I find it weird. You're a grown man (or woman) and you're interested in one of your students? From the student's POV, I understand the attraction. But from the teacher's?

Age difference is different. If your eighteen-year-old acts their age and the twenty-eight-year old acts their age, I'm left to wonder why he/she would be interested in a teenager. But if the maturity is there, so be it.

If the relationship isn't equal, I won't like it. But if it works, I can possibly overlook it. Maybe.

Eh. Good luck.

Alitriona · Jul 4, 2011

I wouldn't read a book with this subject matter. I find it disturbing that a person in a position of authority who has been given the responsibility of caring for a young person would begin a romantic relationship with them, regardless of age. Teachers are next to parents in responsibility roles.

Mandiloo322 · Jul 4, 2011

thebloodfiend said:
....

I mean, I find it weird. You're a grown man (or woman) and you're interested in one of your students? From the student's POV, I understand the attraction. But from the teacher's?

Age difference is different. If your eighteen-year-old acts their age and the twenty-eight-year old acts their age, I'm left to wonder why he/she would be interested in a teenager. But if the maturity is there, so be it.

If the relationship isn't equal, I won't like it. But if it works, I can possibly overlook it. Maybe.

Eh. Good luck.

I think the teacher would be interested because they don't view themselves as "grown up." I know plenty of 30-somethings that enjoy things typically left to the YA age group (based on their taste in movies, music, books, and weekend activities). If they want to "stay young" and possibly have a fear of aging, why wouldn't they want to date someone that would give them that? Especially if the student is a little on the mature-for-their-age side? It's even easier to bridge the gap if the teacher is a recent graduate, because they might have had fellow students in the same dorm/class/group of friends that are only a year or two older than their students are now.

If the teacher is married and feeling the absence of "the spark", they would also find it hard to refuse someone who thinks they are interesting and amazing, when their spouse isn't fulfilling that role for them. It also helps if the student is actually interested in the subject they teach - because in a room full of half-asleep teens, you already feel a fondness for the person who is still taking notes and asking questions.

Not that I think it's ethical.

Julie Reilly · Jul 4, 2011

thebloodfiend said:
You're a grown man (or woman) and you're interested in one of your students? From the student's POV, I understand the attraction. But from the teacher's?

I am a teacher and I have been in staff rooms and heard male teachers commenting on the attractiveness, or not, of the teenage girls doing Games outside the window! We're talking 15/16 year olds here!

When I was a student teacher, so 21, I was training in a school which had a sixth form. I had a bit of a crush on one of the VERY attractive students, who was in his 2nd year of sixth form, so 18.

Luckily I didn't teach him so it was never a problem. Obviously I did nothing about it, he never knew about it, and I knew it was a BAD thing. But I still got a fluttery feeling when I saw him in the corridor!

I knew a teacher once who had an affair with a sixth former who was at least 30 years his junior. He actually left his wife for her! It didn't last.

JennieRose8 · Jul 4, 2011

Thebloodfiend, I definitely understand what you're saying. To clarify, the guy is 24 and she is 18, yet he is very mature for his age. At first, she will strike you as sarcastic and a bit annoying but her character steadily grows. In my first versions of this story, I did notice how immature she was compared to him but that's been corrected- or is in the process. Not promising they wind up together... But we'll see.

Thanks for your comments.

thebloodfiend · Jul 4, 2011

Ah. To clarify, I meant that I wouldn't understand why a teacher would take the risk in showing said attraction. I'm going from the age of my teachers here; usually women in their mid thirties or late forties, married with a kid or two. But the situations presented above sound plausible.

From a taboo standpoint if it's a weird extreme (a Lolita May/December thing), I'd find the story interesting. I'm into that sort of stuff. But if it was played off as normal or non-weird, I'd have to do some eye brow raising. After all, in Vampire Academy (don't like it, but it works) Adrian is 21, Dimitri is 24, and Rose is 17. Dimitri is boring and acts like her dad. Not the greatest idea of romance to me. I do not think a fatherly figure makes a good love interest.

It really depends on the situation, but more importantly, their interactions. Hell, I wanted Juno to end up with Jason Bateman's character rather than Michael Cera because Bleeker was so boring. Situation and personality are everything. But skimming past squickness (if it's really squick) annoys me.

areteus · Jul 4, 2011

Yeah... I've been in the same staffrooms... though there is a difference between looking and actually touching (quite a big difference) and I think even talking about it can cause issues if the wrong person heard it.

And yeah, I know that feeling of being attracted to someone you teach... and sensing it is reciprocated (or even sensing a student has an interest in you which you don't reciprocate).

Mind you, possibly the worst situation I was in when teaching was adult ed - standing in front of 30 women, ranging in age from 18 - 50, and having to go through reproduction with them. Half of them were there because they were doing courses while on maternity leave so, yeah, I think most of them understood the basics of how female anatomy fits together

Embarressing situations, making an idiot of yourself and being put in situations where you can't help but blush are all part of teaching

L_Swann · Jul 4, 2011

I graduated high school two months ago so hopefully I can add a little insight for the other side of the table. Several teachers have spoken; I figured it was time for students.

I've had several teachers who began teaching the August after they graduated college in May. Therefore, they're extremely young. I've even had a teacher that was a high school alum...and therefore when I was a senior in HS, he was our teacher, even though he was a senior when we were in 8th grade. (It wouldn't have ordinarily been a big deal, but since I went to a JrK-12 school, we all knew him.)

I definitely think it happens. From female teacher-male student relationships, I think the male student often views it as something bragworthy. I also think the male student is less likely to be genuinely interested in the female teacher as a person. Again, just what I've seen/heard of.

I think female students would be more likely to hide their relationship (because they recognize society would view it as wrong), but they'd also be more likely to be genuinely interested in the male teacher & the relationship as a whole. If you wrote from a female student's POV, and had a young, attractive male teacher, it could DEFINITELY work. I'm eighteen and I'd read it. You'd just have to really show the female student's vulnerability. Maybe even have her worry about how others view the relationship.

The bigger the age difference, though, the bigger the ick factor. Nothing over 30. Actually, nothing over 27.

Becca_H · Jul 4, 2011

I think student-teacher relationships are interesting and very readable. It doesn't matter if the age gap is large or not, or whether it's female student or male student. As long as it's plotted like any other romance - with plenty of conflict - it's readable.

And yeah, it is very common. I remember reading Goodreads reviews for TEACH ME and was amazed and how many girls posted reviews along the lines of, "This isn't anything like how my affair with my English teacher went, or how my friend's relationship went either!"

When I was 16-18, most of my teachers were young guys (21-23) and yeah, it was obvious if they liked certain students. But they did their very best to stay professional, even if it was strained at times. To my knowledge they never did anything, and there were plenty of girls who liked them.

There's much more scope for 'casual' student-teacher friendships over here though. Post-16, students call teachers by their first names and everything's much more mature and friendly. One of my teachers (21) even told me where he lived and which pub he went to each night. He was just being friendly (and grossly unprofessional). I never met him outside school, but plenty of others did. And I doubt he intended anything because he was happy with his girlfriend. (And the drinking age is 18 here, so you could theroetically go drinking with them. And, some did.)

Of course, the US system, with last names and internal grading, and there's more conflict from these angles.

That said, younger than 16, and any kind of flirting is just noticeable and cringeworthy. I had young female teachers in secondary school (11-16) and it's obvious they liked some of the 15- to 16-year old guys. I also saw an instance of a male teacher flirting with a 15-year-old student for an entire lesson.

And, wow, don't I sound like I went to school with a bunch of unethical teachers?

Also, as well, as per the title of your post, avoid cliches with this type of romance. I've seen really typical scenes which are just bad writing, such as teacher gives student he likes detention - or student deliberate gets detention to spend time with teacher. Student visits teacher at lunch time to help out with things, or does this after school. Student stalks teacher's car and follows it home and finds where he lives. Student investigates teacher online and uncovers past.

It's difficult to build a romance when there's such a barrier up between the protagonists, but I see the above happening repeatedly. Although, I did see a female teacher deliberately giving detentions to the good-looking male students who she seemed infactuated with. They also seemed pretty happy and even got their diaries out to arrange the most convenient date! So hey, maybe it happens a lot.

JennieRose8 · Jul 4, 2011

Alitriona said:
I wouldn't read a book with this subject matter. I find it disturbing that a person in a position of authority who has been given the responsibility of caring for a young person would begin a romantic relationship with them, regardless of age. Teachers are next to parents in responsibility roles.

Well, eighteen is kinda already grown up. And what if the teacher doesn't actually begin it? What if it sort of grows over time?

JennieRose8 · Jul 4, 2011

Mandiloo322 said:
I think it's fine. You'll definitely have interest! I do wonder... if it takes the "cute/romantic" spin, it seems easily YA, but if it's more the "icky" spin it might be more of a thriller/suspense genre? Still in the YA shelf but maybe in a different spot. Either way, there's plenty of ways you can do it so I think you should go for it.

Hi! Thanks for your reply. Well, the story isn't exactly "cute," but it's not icky either. I mean, this girl starts seriously pining over a teacher who is trying to hold her at an arm's length. But he is a concerned teacher, too, and his siblings are involved...things start happening.

JennieRose8 · Jul 4, 2011

Julie Reilly said:
I am a teacher and I have been in staff rooms and heard male teachers commenting on the attractiveness, or not, of the teenage girls doing Games outside the window! We're talking 15/16 year olds here!

When I was a student teacher, so 21, I was training in a school which had a sixth form. I had a bit of a crush on one of the VERY attractive students, who was in his 2nd year of sixth form, so 18.

Luckily I didn't teach him so it was never a problem. Obviously I did nothing about it, he never knew about it, and I knew it was a BAD thing. But I still got a fluttery feeling when I saw him in the corridor!

I knew a teacher once who had an affair with a sixth former who was at least 30 years his junior. He actually left his wife for her! It didn't last.

Hey, it's great to hear from the teachers here, so thanks for speaking up.

That would be quite awkward, being attracted to a younger guy in a school where you teach. I think I'd avoid him as much as possible. LOL

I am shocked at grown men, talking about attractive and unattractive 15-16 year old girls. It's one thing to make an observation and say, "WOw, she's a cute kid." It's another to stare and separate the goats from the sheep. How rude. Sounds like they needed to grow up.

JennieRose8 · Jul 4, 2011

Becca_H said:
I think student-teacher relationships are interesting and very readable. It doesn't matter if the age gap is large or not, or whether it's female student or male student. As long as it's plotted like any other romance - with plenty of conflict - it's readable.

And yeah, it is very common. I remember reading Goodreads reviews for TEACH ME and was amazed and how many girls posted reviews along the lines of, "This isn't anything like how my affair with my English teacher went, or how my friend's relationship went either!"

When I was 16-18, most of my teachers were young guys (21-23) and yeah, it was obvious if they liked certain students. But they did their very best to stay professional, even if it was strained at times. To my knowledge they never did anything, and there were plenty of girls who liked them.

There's much more scope for 'casual' student-teacher friendships over here though. Post-16, students call teachers by their first names and everything's much more mature and friendly. One of my teachers (21) even told me where he lived and which pub he went to each night. He was just being friendly (and grossly unprofessional). I never met him outside school, but plenty of others did. And I doubt he intended anything because he was happy with his girlfriend. (And the drinking age is 18 here, so you could theroetically go drinking with them. And, some did.)

Of course, the US system, with last names and internal grading, and there's more conflict from these angles.

That said, younger than 16, and any kind of flirting is just noticeable and cringeworthy. I had young female teachers in secondary school (11-16) and it's obvious they liked some of the 15- to 16-year old guys. I also saw an instance of a male teacher flirting with a 15-year-old student for an entire lesson.

And, wow, don't I sound like I went to school with a bunch of unethical teachers?

Also, as well, as per the title of your post, avoid cliches with this type of romance. I've seen really typical scenes which are just bad writing, such as teacher gives student he likes detention - or student deliberate gets detention to spend time with teacher. Student visits teacher at lunch time to help out with things, or does this after school. Student stalks teacher's car and follows it home and finds where he lives. Student investigates teacher online and uncovers past.

It's difficult to build a romance when there's such a barrier up between the protagonists, but I see the above happening repeatedly. Although, I did see a female teacher deliberately giving detentions to the good-looking male students who she seemed infactuated with. They also seemed pretty happy and even got their diaries out to arrange the most convenient date! So hey, maybe it happens a lot.

Hi, Becca, thanks for your comments.

To be honest, in the original versions of my story, the teacher did give the girl detention- but mainly because she needed it. LOL She was suicidal (not really in the current draft) and he'd arranged with her mom for her to stay after school until her mother picked her up at four.

She will receive a week's worth of detention for drinking on school grounds, but mostly their interaction will mount thanks to the teacher's brother and sister.

Student/Teacher cliches

JennieRose8

Jehhillenberg

N/A

Kitty Pryde

i luv you giant bear statue

Polenth

Mushroom

areteus

JennieRose8

KimJo

Outside the box, with the werewolves

JennieRose8

JennieRose8

Marzipan

Mandiloo322

[Shhhh....I'm writing.]

Becca C.

thebloodfiend

Cory

Alitriona

Attends The School of AW

Mandiloo322

[Shhhh....I'm writing.]

Julie Reilly

JennieRose8

thebloodfiend

Cory

areteus

L_Swann

Becca_H

Where am I again?

JennieRose8

JennieRose8

JennieRose8

JennieRose8