Writing Fantastical Urban Detectives?

MormonMobster · Jun 15, 2011

So I want to write one of those urban fantasy detective novels, the kinds of stories with detectives that are supernatural themselves. I specifically like the feel of stories like the Dresden Files, for example.

But I'm having troubles writing a good fantastical detective-type character, especially in regards to how the detective should be supernatural.

I have three big concerns:
-One of my ideas is to write a Mormon detective, with Mormon (and basic Wild Western) supernatural culture influencing much of the story. So far so good, right? Well, I also want to have the reason why the MC is called out for all these strange, mystic events be that he feels he has been divinely "called" to his duty. I'm also toying with giving the MC supernatural powers based on his belief in his cause, but this is the biggest problem. How do I give Mormon-based supernatural powers, without the story unintentionally being an author tract for Mormonism?

-The problem with most of the Mormon supernatural culture ideas is that most of the interesting ones would have to happen in the 1850s, which is definitely not urban. How would I either give a urban fantasy feel to the detective in the 1850s, OR how would I transplant my ideas to the modern day/at least the early 1900s?

-Without all the trappings of the "hard-bitten detective" theme, like alcohol, bars, smoking (because all of those are prohibited by the LDS religion), or whatever, how am I supposed to provide a similar feel for this hypothetical character?

Thanks in advance to anyone that responds.

Kitti · Jun 15, 2011

How do I give Mormon-based supernatural powers, without the story unintentionally being an author tract for Mormonism?

May I suggest reading Eric James Stone's novelette, "The Leviathan Whom Thou Hast Made," which has a very well-done MC for whom Mormonism is a defining characteristic, but which doesn't come across as an author tract (at least not for me). I think it's still available online for free b/c of all the award nominations

How would I either give a urban fantasy feel to the detective in the 1850s

For my money, set it in a crime-ridden city. The Dresden Files wouldn't be the same kind of series without Chicago, which is almost a character in its own right.

Without all the trappings of the "hard-bitten detective" theme, like alcohol, bars, smoking (because all of those are prohibited by the LDS religion), or whatever, how am I supposed to provide a similar feel for this hypothetical character?

Gambling? There has to be some emotional crutch that your MC can turn to that would serve the same purpose. IMHO, it doesn't have to be a vice by LDS standards, just something that clearly demonstrates your MC is at the breaking point and is metaphorically drowning his sorrows in some sort of distraction. E.g. I don't drink alcohol, go to bars, or smoke, but my friends always know I'm going off the rails when I hit my third Slurpee in less than 24 hours...

Vaguely Piratical · Jun 16, 2011

MormonMobster said:
-The problem with most of the Mormon supernatural culture ideas is that most of the interesting ones would have to happen in the 1850s, which is definitely not urban. How would I either give a urban fantasy feel to the detective in the 1850s, OR how would I transplant my ideas to the modern day/at least the early 1900s?

That depends on what you mean by Urban Fantasy feel. You could easily transplant Dresden into the wild west and still have him feel like Dresden. You just have steam engines instead of cars. I don't see that being a problem. Just set it in a city that existed at the time and had a fairly decent population. In the 1850s Chicago was one of the fastest growing cities on earth, and a major transportation hub. There's a lot of room for a hidden world with magic that sometimes reaches out and grabs normal people. Which means there's room for a hero to save them.

MormonMobster said:
-Without all the trappings of the "hard-bitten detective" theme, like alcohol, bars, smoking (because all of those are prohibited by the LDS religion), or whatever, how am I supposed to provide a similar feel for this hypothetical character?

I don't think you can maintain the feel without those things. If your character has to deal with dangerous, unsavory people then he might have to go to a bar or a whore house or worse. But just because he might have cause to go to a bar doesn't mean he has to drink. You can play up that the places make him uncomfortable, have him get weird looks for ordering milk, or have him be friends with the bartender. Some internal dialog could explain that when he orders "whiskey" he gets sarsaparilla in a tumbler, since he doesn't dink, but wants to keep up an image for the baddies.

MormonMobster said:
One of my ideas is to write a Mormon detective, with Mormon (and basic Wild Western) supernatural culture influencing much of the story. So far so good, right? Well, I also want to have the reason why the MC is called out for all these strange, mystic events be that he feels he has been divinely "called" to his duty. I'm also toying with giving the MC supernatural powers based on his belief in his cause, but this is the biggest problem. How do I give Mormon-based supernatural powers, without the story unintentionally being an author tract for Mormonism?

I think this one is going to be hard and require some finesse. That having been said, with good writing it is possible to have a very devote character without sounding like a recruiting pamphlet. But I think you are right. The more your story reads "hooray! Go team LDS!" the more readers you risk alienating.

MormonMobster · Jun 16, 2011

Kitti said:
May I suggest reading Eric James Stone's novelette, "The Leviathan Whom Thou Hast Made," which has a very well-done MC for whom Mormonism is a defining characteristic, but which doesn't come across as an author tract (at least not for me). I think it's still available online for free b/c of all the award nominations

Yeah, I think I've actually read that one. A good story. It's the one with the swales, right?

For my money, set it in a crime-ridden city. The Dresden Files wouldn't be the same kind of series without Chicago, which is almost a character in its own right.

Yeah, but I don't want to set it in any of the normal crime-ridden cities, like Chicago, New York, or even Los Angles. Especially if I placed it in the 1920s-30s, there wouldn't be a big enough Mormon population for this character to protect (which is his religious duty) in those cities, and none of the "Mormon Corridor" high Mormon-population cities in almost any era are large enough to fit the "massive, crime ridden city" theme.

I suppose I could have the MC's duties be to protect members AND non-members, though. Then I could find a city that might have a sizable LDS population in either the 1920s/30s or the present day, and go from there.

Gambling? There has to be some emotional crutch that your MC can turn to that would serve the same purpose. IMHO, it doesn't have to be a vice by LDS standards, just something that clearly demonstrates your MC is at the breaking point and is metaphorically drowning his sorrows in some sort of distraction. E.g. I don't drink alcohol, go to bars, or smoke, but my friends always know I'm going off the rails when I hit my third Slurpee in less than 24 hours...

Slurpees would be if I wanted to make it silly, but I see your point. Gambling might be effective, and I could make it into a personal flaw of the MC (gambles with people's lives, perhaps?). Or ties to organized crime, or both.

Vaguely Piratical said:
That depends on what you mean by Urban Fantasy feel. You could easily transplant Dresden into the wild west and still have him feel like Dresden. You just have steam engines instead of cars. I don't see that being a problem. Just set it in a city that existed at the time and had a fairly decent population. In the 1850s Chicago was one of the fastest growing cities on earth, and a major transportation hub. There's a lot of room for a hidden world with magic that sometimes reaches out and grabs normal people. Which means there's room for a hero to save them.

Good point. It's really just a lot harder to get a feel for cities besides the absolute largest ones (like London or Beijing) in the mid 1800s. That era of history, especially in America lends itself better to Wild West genres.

The problem is that it's difficult to have a Mormon character "fit" outside of a setting with lots of other Mormons, such as the Mountain West. And there's no city in the Mountain West large enough to work for this particular sort of character.

I don't think you can maintain the feel without those things. If your character has to deal with dangerous, unsavory people then he might have to go to a bar or a whore house or worse. But just because he might have cause to go to a bar doesn't mean he has to drink. You can play up that the places make him uncomfortable, have him get weird looks for ordering milk, or have him be friends with the bartender. Some internal dialog could explain that when he orders "whiskey" he gets sarsaparilla in a tumbler, since he doesn't dink, but wants to keep up an image for the baddies.

Makes sense. I could have a recurring conflict be his constant refusal to have alcohol, even when previously friendly hosts insist. The anger at his refusal could be fun to explore.

I think this one is going to be hard and require some finesse. That having been said, with good writing it is possible to have a very devote character without sounding like a recruiting pamphlet. But I think you are right. The more your story reads "hooray! Go team LDS!" the more readers you risk alienating.

True, which annoys me. Catholic-themed supernatural detective stories don't have the same problem. Heck, the Van Helsing movie had the main character be explicitly Catholic if I recall correctly, and no one had a problem with that.

But for some reason, making a character explicitly Mormon alienates more people than a devout Catholic character. Why is that?

I suppose the best bet to make the MC at least a little bit more relateable is dropping the Mormon-based supernatural powers. Having him be a completely non-powered, normal guy (if good at destroying supernatural threats), might help.

Vaguely Piratical · Jun 16, 2011

MormonMobster said:
True, which annoys me. Catholic-themed supernatural detective stories don't have the same problem. Heck, the Van Helsing movie had the main character be explicitly Catholic if I recall correctly, and no one had a problem with that.

But for some reason, making a character explicitly Mormon alienates more people than a devout Catholic character. Why is that?

I suppose the best bet to make the MC at least a little bit more relateable is dropping the Mormon-based supernatural powers. Having him be a completely non-powered, normal guy (if good at destroying supernatural threats), might help.

Here we disagree. The fact Van Helsing was Catholic (I'm talking about the movie) was irrelevant to the plot. The church was the organization that funded him and gave him a neato crossbow. Other than that I think he dipped the crossbow in holy water, in terms of using faith based anything.

Using holy water to kill vamps is fairly well established and not extraordinary. Nothing in the story would have changed if van Helsing worked for a government or SHIELD: Steampunk edition. Ok, his sidekick's and boss' outfits would have changed. That's pretty much it.

Where you risk loosing readers is not on your treatment of Mormonism, but of other faiths. My best example here is Michael from the Dresden Files. Now there is a character who is explicitly Catholic, and gains supernatural powers from his faith. He could not be more unwavering in his beliefs or convictions.

But Butcher handles it well, so readers aren't turned off. He allows God to act through Atheists and Agnostics. You know that good men need not have faith in God (Sanya) or support the Church (Harry). It would not surprise me to see a Muslim or Sikh character with the exact same level of support from on high.

This is where you need to be careful. This is what I was referring to. You risk alienating readers if you, the author, are preaching LDS, not if your character is. It can be clear that you believe it, but when you imply superiority over other beliefs, or make it seem the goal is conversion you are no longer writing for the secular market.

You would be writing Mormon fiction for Mormons. Say your character has a Buddhist buddy. (Unlikely in the setting I know) If LDS gives super powers and the Noble Eightfold Path is a one way ticket to hell no one, but a Mormon, really wants to read it. I doubt most Mormon's would really want to either. If the Buddhist's faith receives equal divine attention you are fairly safe.

Do you see the difference I'm trying to point out?

MormonMobster · Jun 18, 2011

Vaguely Piratical said:
Here we disagree. The fact Van Helsing was Catholic (I'm talking about the movie) was irrelevant to the plot. The church was the organization that funded him and gave him a neato crossbow. Other than that I think he dipped the crossbow in holy water, in terms of using faith based anything.

Using holy water to kill vamps is fairly well established and not extraordinary. Nothing in the story would have changed if van Helsing worked for a government or SHIELD: Steampunk edition. Ok, his sidekick's and boss' outfits would have changed. That's pretty much it.

Vaguely Piratical said:
Where you risk loosing readers is not on your treatment of Mormonism, but of other faiths. My best example here is Michael from the Dresden Files. Now there is a character who is explicitly Catholic, and gains supernatural powers from his faith. He could not be more unwavering in his beliefs or convictions.

But Butcher handles it well, so readers aren't turned off. He allows God to act through Atheists and Agnostics. You know that good men need not have faith in God (Sanya) or support the Church (Harry). It would not surprise me to see a Muslim or Sikh character with the exact same level of support from on high.

This is where you need to be careful. This is what I was referring to. You risk alienating readers if you, the author, are preaching LDS, not if your character is. It can be clear that you believe it, but when you imply superiority over other beliefs, or make it seem the goal is conversion you are no longer writing for the secular market.

You would be writing Mormon fiction for Mormons. Say your character has a Buddhist buddy. (Unlikely in the setting I know) If LDS gives super powers and the Noble Eightfold Path is a one way ticket to hell no one, but a Mormon, really wants to read it. I doubt most Mormon's would really want to either. If the Buddhist's faith receives equal divine attention you are fairly safe.

Do you see the difference I'm trying to point out?

Yeah, I see what you mean. Have supernatural power be a part of non-Mormon characters, and for those characters to be just as good morally as the Mormon MC.

That's easy; I can just have some of the MC's allies (not sidekicks) be of different faiths, and be inspired/supernaturally empowered by their faith just as much as the main character is (or isn't, because I won't have him empowered).

The bigger problem, I suppose, is having readers be interested in other parts of Mormon supernatural culture; how do I have Mormon-themed supernatural stuff appear without it being a subtle declaration that Mormonism is the only "right" way in this world?

Writing Fantastical Urban Detectives?

MormonMobster

Kitti

procrastinatrix

Vaguely Piratical

MormonMobster

Vaguely Piratical

MormonMobster