Comma, Worry.

Darkshore

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I'm trying to edit out all of the grammatical flaws in my short story before I send it out. I find that I am constantly using a comma to promote a pause. I want the pause to be there, I feel that it's necessary. Is it ok to have them though? In the eyes of an editor?
 

CaroGirl

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Commas aren't used to denote a "pause." Commas have specific grammatical purposes that are outlined in books about grammar and punctuation. If you search this forum for "comma," I believe there are very useful links to information about correct comma use.

If you want to post a questionable sentence, we could talk you through the comma confusion.
 

CaroGirl

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I'm trying to edit out all of the grammatical flaws in my short story before I send it out. I find that I am constantly using a comma to promote a pause. I want the pause to be there, I feel that it's necessary. Is it ok to have them though? In the eyes of an editor?

And just so you know, you use the comma incorrectly in the highlighted sentence. This error is called a comma splice and it means that you've incorrectly connected two independent clauses with a comma. You need a period or a semicolon. Not a comma.
 

Maryn

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Yup, to both CaroGirl's posts. The educators who taught legions of US kids that pause = comma have done them a grave disservice.

IIRC, the Purdue Owl website has very good, clear, and understandable explanations on commas, with examples. You might want to find it and review there, and take notes on any you don't quite understand or didn't know. No time like right now to start improving your writing mechanics.

Maryn, tipping her hat to CaroGirl
 

Cathy C

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It's also likely you'll never get a definitive answer as to the serial comma issue. Some editors love the use, some abhor it. My best advice if you're cleaning up punctuation anyway is to remove as many as possible. It's a lot easier to insert them than to remove them (speaking from experience here... :eek: )
 

Susan Coffin

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Commas are not used for pauses. Here is a primer from Strunk regarding comma usage.

Caro is absolutely correct, the following sentence is incorrect.

I want the pause to be there, I feel that it's necessary.

You need a conjunction in between there and I; as, because, for. Or, you can make it two sentences.

Also, your title does not need a comma. If you want a pause, you would put a period.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself! :D
 

Chase

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Adding my voice that the purpose of the comma isn't to create a pause. I've been fighting that misconception for many years -- some battles right here at AW.

As said in this and other threads, the comma isn't articulated; it signals structural divisions within sentences.

The misconception arises from coincidental natural pauses, but it really confuses careful readers when writers try to use them to force pauses.
 

Chase

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It's also likely you'll never get a definitive answer as to the serial comma issue.

The serial or Oxford comma really doesn't need an answer and doesn't have anything to do with pauses. It's a structural option, pretty much a matter of style these days. The trick is to remain consistent in its use or omission. If a publisher objects, the publisher can change it.

For instance, the local newspaper omits the Oxford comma in staff-generated articles, but they don't bother to edit them out of contracted columns.
 
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Bufty

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You can't honestly believe that every time your reader sees a comma he is going to pause.

Do you pause every time you see a comma?


I'm trying to edit out all of the grammatical flaws in my short story before I send it out. I find that I am constantly using a comma to promote a pause. I want the pause to be there, I feel that it's necessary. Is it ok to have them though? In the eyes of an editor?
 

whacko

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Hey DarkS,

I use commas for pauses too. And I know that its' not grammertiklly correct, pause for irony, except that example is, but it can make for more of a conversational voice. Until, it gets, really annoying.:D

Guess who's been on the cider tonight?

Regards

Whacko
 

Bufty

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If commas are splattered willy nilly throughout a manuscript, how on earth is the poor reader expected to know when the comma is intended as a pause and when it is not?

Here -have another bottle ....:poke:


Hey DarkS,

I use commas for pauses too. And I know that its' not grammertiklly correct, pause for irony, except that example is, but it can make for more of a conversational voice. Until, it gets, really annoying.:D

Guess who's been on the cider tonight?

Regards

Whacko
 
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Chase

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I know that its' not grammertiklly correct . . .

Pass the jug, Wacko. You weren't supposed to release the new all-in-one its' until the next full moon. It ends that nagging worry over whether to spell its or it's.
 

whacko

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Drink enough cider and you don't care about grmmr, punctreation, vikabriolet and spelink.
 

Darkshore

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Edit: Double post.
 
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Darkshore

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Thank you all for the helpful input. It's seemingly been mashed and stomped into my head that it is perfectly alright to use commas in this way. I have seen it done though. That's what brought about my confusion. I just need to stop obsessing over it hehe. I love to write and I seem to be good with words, but all my knowledge on the finer points of grammar could be held on the tip of a pen. Edit: Here is a small example.


"Her eyes stood out like tiny torches, bright and distracting." It just seems like putting a period in there and splitting it up into two sentences would be stupid, but I would rather have my grammar mostly correct for when I send it out.
 
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Chase

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"Her eyes stood out like tiny torches, bright and distracting."

It just seems like putting a period in there and splitting it up into two sentences would be stupid, but I would rather have my grammar mostly correct for when I send it out.

There's nothing wrong with the punctuation of your example. The comma is well-placed. You don't have have two main clauses (independent structures), so it's not a comma splice.

Yeah, you really need to look over some good punctuation sources.

Maybe this will help get you started:

For U.S. publications, these five basic rules outline necessary commas. Very few comma uses are optional. The vast majority of the remainder are superfluous – excessive, pointless, unnecessary.

1. A comma is necessary to separate a compound structure, two or more main clauses joined by one of the seven coordinating conjunctions: and, or, nor, but, for, yet, so.

The woman drank black coffee, and she ate a croissant.
You can conduct yourself in a pleasant manner, or you can be horrible.

Evan loves Suzanne, but he cannot forget Elena.

If the writer chooses to make those constructions into simple sentences, then the comma is not used:

The woman drank black coffee and ate a croissant.
You can conduct yourself in a pleasant manner or be horrible.

Evan loves Suzanne but cannot forget Elena.

2. A comma is necessary to separate a long introductory element before a main clause. The rule holds true for both simple and complex constructions.

Even though ignorant of our culture, we must always be kind to strangers. (Simple)

Since Constance is new to our company, all of us should strive to help her. (Complex)

It is always correct to set off any introductory element with a comma, but custom has made the practice optional for shorter elements. Either is acceptable:

Later, you can join us for dessert. Later you can join us for dessert.

3. Commas separate items in a series:

James found blondes attractive, redheads adorable, and brunettes irresistible.

The final comma before the conjunction is always correct. However, the journalistic practice which came about due to briefer construction (and to save on the cost of lead when linotypes were used) is a viable option:

James found blondes attractive, redheads adorable and brunettes irresistible.

Also correct is: James found blondes attractive, redheads adorable, brunettes irresistible.


4. Interjections and forms of address are set off with commas.

Yes, I will accompany you to the ball.

No, I won’t!

You, sir, are out of line.

You may be assured, ma’am, of our concern.

Are you certain of that prognosis, Doctor?

Thank you, Mother, for all you do.

There’s a world of difference in "Let’s eat, Grandma" and "Let’s eat Grandma."

5. Words, phrases, or clauses which interrupt the main clause, such as appositives and infinitives, must be set off with commas fore and aft. The rule includes the state following the name of a city and the year following the day of the month.

Mrs. Ellen Bennet, my mother, is in the drawing room.
The Brooklyn Bridge, as opposed to this matchstick construction, is sturdy and reliable.

He was born on June 23, 1941, near Big Timber, Montana, along the Yellowstone River.

Those earrings, in my opinion, would look better hanging over formal dining tables.

5A. The final necessary use of the comma is the most difficult for many writers. It’s actually the same as rule 5, but it’s often presented in isolation because of its difficulty. As with appositives, it separates nonrestrictive clauses in a sentence. The nonrestrictive clause is not essential to the sentence. It merely adds information:

Abraham Lincoln, who was the tallest of U.S. presidents, was an imposing figure of a man.

The grizzly, a bear misunderstood by tourists, is named Ursus horribilis for good reason.

By contrast, a restrictive clause is essential to the sentence:

The lady who cried is my mother.

The man who shot Liberty Valance became a state senator.
 

Darkshore

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Thanks a ton. I suppose I just needed a refresher. I was worrying way too much that I was wrong when for the most part I was doing it right...haha. Thanks again. :D
 

Terie

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Thanks a ton. I suppose I just needed a refresher. I was worrying way too much that I was wrong when for the most part I was doing it right...haha. Thanks again. :D

Actually (and I mean this in the spirit of being helpful, not snarky :)), based on the posts you've made in this thread, you're leaving out more necessary commas than you're inserting extraneous ones.

To wit:

I was worrying way too much that I was wrong when, for the most part, I was doing it right...haha.

And:

I have seen it done, though.

Okay, it could be argued that the commas I inserted in the first example are falling out of fashion and are no longer required. But you still need to know why they would go there and then to make a conscious choice to leave them out based on a variety of things, such as narrative voice, intended audience, and so on.

Mastering correct usage might seem tedious, but it will save you a lot of worry and hassle later. It is, therefore, time well spent. So grab up some good resources and start studying. :D
 

Darkshore

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Thanks heh. I tried my best not to use commas after I realized that I was a bit clueless about them. Makes me feel like I'm in school again, but your right. I need to study up a bit.
 

Chase

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Thanks heh. I tried my best not to use commas after I realized that I was a bit clueless about them.

One more beat on this dead horse: Not using commas can be as confusing to readers as when writers shotgun them in at the whim associated with taking a breath. Seriously.
 
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adnan

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@Chase: Thanks for a good primer on comma :)

I prefer to use a period instead of a comma to give a pause. I think that a heavy use of comma can be justified in some genres to slow down the reader. Unless you want reader to go slowly on the passage, comma should be avoided.
 

Darkshore

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I didn't really mean that I stopped using them in my writing. Just in this thread, for I seem to keep making a fool of myself.
 

Maryn

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Don't worry about that, Darkshore. It's just us. We're positive that those who want to learn, can and will, and if you find something confusing, those who already could and did will be glad to clarify.

Go forth and comma!

Maryn, <--comma
 

Bufty

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Nobody thinks that, Darkshore. And don't you think it either. Here - :Hug2:

I didn't really mean that I stopped using them in my writing. Just in this thread, for I seem to keep making a fool of myself.