Thoughts on show vs. tell?

rami

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Hey there, y'all. I'm just curious as to what everyone thinks on this whole show vs tell business.

I'm no stranger to writing or to the concept, but screenplays are new to me. I know SVT still applies, but it seems to work differently in this form.

Now, I've read a bunch of script that will describe the MC as "defeated" or having "lost hope" or whatever the case may be. In my brain, that's telling. Sure, you can show it later, but you still told me. I've also read this is the thing to do.

On the other hand, I've read and seen the opposite. Don't tell the reader the MC is defeated, show them through his actions.

Any thoughts on this? Is it just a matter of preference?
 

thebloodfiend

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I'd prefer to be shown that the MC is defeated. When I read a screenplay, I want to have a visual in my mind, same as with a novel. I'm going to give you an example of what I like as opposed to what I dislike. It's quick and not very good, but hopefully it will suffice.

John closes his eyes and leans against a wall for support. His face darkens and his jaw clenches.


or

John's face falls as he looses hope. He is defeated.


I'd rather see the emotion than have the emotion told to me. Don't tell me that Peggy is happy, show that she's happy by having her smile.

It's the difference between (500) Days of Summer and Rachel Getting Married. Both are okay movies, but the latter has a stronger script IMO.
 
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rami

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Thanks for your response, fiend. I think I agree.

For example, I really like Theo's description in the Children of Men script... something to the effect of "he gave up before the world did." Clever writing will always win me over. :/

Personally, I think I end up blending them, if you could say that. I'm not really sure how I feel about it. I come from a different background than screenwriting, so I don't know if my natural style would be kosher or not. For example:

"PING. Carlos steps off the elevator, walks down the hall towards his apartment door. Every step is a chore, the confession of defeat."

I guess to convey the same message with physical indications you coud say his legs are heavy, etc. but I suppose I'm sucker (yes, I'll admit it, I sucker my own damn self) for... I guess you could say non-descriptive descriptions, if you know what I mean?

Not to do a shameless self-promotion there, but hopefully some folks will jump in the conversation?
 

dpaterso

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Depends. :)

I guess I think along the lines of, what's the easiest and shortest way to convey this? Whether it's a little bit of show mixed with a little bit of tell maybe doesn't matter, as long as it's something the reader can visualize and the actor (eventually) can emote.

Pausing an extra moment to find the right verbs for the mood can help, e.g. and just for fun's sake,

Head bowed, shoulders slumped in defeat, Carlos trudges along the hall to his apartment.

-Derek
 

LIVIN

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I was thinking along similar lines as dpat when I read this:

"PING. Carlos steps off the elevator, walks down the hall towards his apartment door. Every step is a chore, the confession of defeat."

My first thought was why use the word "steps" when later you describe that's not what he's doing. Whereas dpat thought of trudging, lumbering immediately came to mind for me.

You basically say, "He steps.... every step is a chore." So, find a word similar to "step" which means that. Like dpat said, I'm aiming to be concise here.
 

cameron_chapman

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John closes his eyes and leans against a wall for support. His face darkens and his jaw clenches.


or

John's face falls as he looses hope. He is defeated.


I'd rather see the emotion than have the emotion told to me. Don't tell me that Peggy is happy, show that she's happy by having her smile.

See, in the first case above, I think the second one is better. I'm the screenwriter, not the director and not the actor. I'll leave it up to them to figure out how best to show that he's defeated within the context of the scene. If I tell them exactly how to show that John has lost hope, then they're likely going to do it that way. But maybe there's a better way that the actor/director will come up with on their own if I don't tell them how to do it.

The second one is more general, and I'd probably write it as she smiled, rather than just saying she's happy. Most people are going to smile when they're happy. It's a reflex.

ETA: So for me, if it's a basic expression (smile, cry, frown, etc.), then I'll write it in. If it's more complex, then I'll tell rather than show and leave it up to the actor and director.
 

WriteKnight

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I think to do it effectively, one uses a blend. I know for my part, when I'm finished with the rough draft of a scene or the script - I'll go through looking for my crutch words. "Seemed/Seems" and "Appears/Appeared" - I find when I'm writing quickly, I'll use those words as a crutch. They are a convenient shorthand that I use to indicate to myself, that better writing is needed here.
 

rami

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Cameron made a good point; that never would have occurred to me. Thumbs up! But then on the flip side, suppose you get a bad director or bad actor....... (personally, I'm of the school of thought that the writer has the greatest impact on the final product.)

And hm.... I think I know what you guys are getting at. "Steps" is boring on its own? So like.... "Carlos trudges down the hallway, every step a confession of defeat." ??
I mean, using colorful, physical language and blending it with "emotional" direction, yeah?

Or am I missing the point here? More so scratch "every step....." ?

WriteKnight: That's a killer way to revise. Again, never would have thought of that.

I'm stoked people hopped in to speak up on this one.
 
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LIVIN

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The second one is more general, and I'd probably write it as she smiled, rather than just saying she's happy. Most people are going to smile when they're happy. It's a reflex.

I think the point here is to not write "Person is happy." As a reader, I think, how do we know this, how is this shown? So, you write "Person smiles" or "Person jumps up and down for joy."
 

GRAHAMdotter

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Hey there, y'all. I'm just curious as to what everyone thinks on this whole show vs tell business.

I'm no stranger to writing or to the concept, but screenplays are new to me. I know SVT still applies, but it seems to work differently in this form.

Now, I've read a bunch of script that will describe the MC as "defeated" or having "lost hope" or whatever the case may be. In my brain, that's telling. Sure, you can show it later, but you still told me. I've also read this is the thing to do.

On the other hand, I've read and seen the opposite. Don't tell the reader the MC is defeated, show them through his actions.

Any thoughts on this? Is it just a matter of preference?


I'm all for showing and not telling. So "defeated" would be written as "his body slumped" bla bla bla.

The problem is that the reader may not understand "his body slumped." Even though it is obvious. In a small sense, you're hoping that the reader will be interested enough to decrypt.

Also, you're kinda interpreting the scene for the director, who may want to show "defeated" in another way.

So there is confusion and a mix of both is inevitable. But you definitely don't want your script to read "he did this, he did that..." bla bla bla.
 

nmstevens

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Hey there, y'all. I'm just curious as to what everyone thinks on this whole show vs tell business.

I'm no stranger to writing or to the concept, but screenplays are new to me. I know SVT still applies, but it seems to work differently in this form.

Now, I've read a bunch of script that will describe the MC as "defeated" or having "lost hope" or whatever the case may be. In my brain, that's telling. Sure, you can show it later, but you still told me. I've also read this is the thing to do.

On the other hand, I've read and seen the opposite. Don't tell the reader the MC is defeated, show them through his actions.

Any thoughts on this? Is it just a matter of preference?

I posted this awhile ago as a response to another member who also raised this question.

I hope you might also find it helpful.



I think that there's a lot of misunderstanding about what is meant by "show, don't tell" -- especially as it relates to movies because (as people always mistakenly declare) movies are a "visual medium" -- thus, presumably, we're supposed to be "showing things."

"Show, don't tell" has nothing to do with depicting things visually as opposed to conveying them through words.

A concept can be "shown" or "told" visually or it can be "shown" or "told" through characters conversing.

That's because the idea of "show, don't tell" refers to the "dramatic content" of a scene, not its visual content.

The question is always, what is it that the "scene" needs to convey -- what dramatic information -- what is supposed to happen in the scene? Someone learns something. Someone needs something. Someone tries to gain some advantage over somebody. Somebody wins. Somebody loses. Somebody learns something. Something is set up.

There's a particular *dramatic* reason for every scene to be there. The question is, are *you,* the storyteller, showing the audience what that reason for the scene is, are you merely *telling* them what the reason for the scene is.

In the examples you site, characters may very well be talking about all sorts of different things -- their past, things that happened to them, or whatever.

But one ought not think that simply because characters are talking about something, that that "something" is necessarily what the "scene" is about -- and thus, what ought to be "shown" on screen.

A great example of this is that great scene from Silence of the Lambs when Clarice recounts the story of the killing of the spring lambs to Hannibal Lechter.

Why do we stay with Clarice and Lechter during this long, extended story? Why not flash back and show her as a little girl with the sheep? Wouldn't that be much more visual, much more dramatic? Wouldn't that be "showing" rather than "telling?"

No. Because "show, don't tell" has nothing to do with whether we "visualize" particular incidents -- whether the incident of the sheep are visualized in a flashback or described by Clarice.

The question is -- where is the *dramatic content* of the scene. Where is the actual "scene" happening? Back with Clarice as a little girl with the sheep? No. The scene is about Lechter forcing the adult Clarice to reveal the deepest emotional secret about herself in exchange for life and death information - and she has to do it.

The "story" is happening in the present, with the adult Clarice -- and that's where the camera needs to be pointed -- not at the past at the little girl Clarice and the sheep.

And so always, when it comes to this question of, "Show, don't tell" -- you have to ask the question - where is the story happening, and it isn't necessarily "happening" in the same place that people in a scene are talking about.

Sometimes you want to show something that happened in the past because that *is* where the story is happening, and a past event is advancing or illuminating something that's happening in the present day of the story.

But other times, even when the past is being referenced in a contemporary scene, the dramatic action of the scene is not really what's being referenced in the dialogue. It has a purpose, but it's being used, within the present-tense scene, in a different way,(whether it's comedic or dramatic) for a different reason.

---

In respect to the particular question that you raise -- you're talking about what amounts to the "attitude" of a particular character.

This is my opinion on that. When we write, we're trying, using the tools of prose, to approximate to the extent that we can, the experience of watching a movie.

So when an actor comes on screen and he looks like he's been beaten down by life -- there are countless ways that an actor might play that. Through his expression, his posture, the way he responds to others in the tone of his voice, or fails to respond. Through any number of little bits of stage business that he might work out.

Obviously, when you write this character's particular dialogue, the fact that he is that way -- beaten by life -- is going to be part of the way he speaks and the way acts and the way he interacts.

But when you see this character on screen, an audience isn't going to have to wait for him to speak or for him to do something in particular to get that first impression of somebody that's beaten down by life -- because that's the sort of thing that hits you about a person the minute you see him.

And that's generally true about people who have strongly defined personalities (and those are the kinds of people that we all want to write about) -- when you first meet them, those personalities immediately impress themselves upon you in countless little ways that are quite difficult to express in terms of literal description.

That is why our wonderful language has given us the means of encapsulating those kinds of expressions through terms like, "beaten down by life."

You write it and the reader gets it -- in exactly the same way that when the actor steps on screen, presuming that he's delivering the performance appropriately, the audience gets it immediately through various subtleties of performance -- here's some guy who's been beaten down by life.

Now, it's important to understand that if that's all you do - just write that and play that, that the results are not going to add up to a satisfactory character.

What you are doing is giving a "first impression" of a character -- in essence, a place for an audience to hang its hat in reference to a character.

For a character to have any depth or definition, they have to be more than simply a "this" - for instance to simply be "beaten down by life" (that's what we mean by a one-dimensional character) -- but to be a "this but that" -- to be embodied or defined by aspects or qualities in conflict or in tension.

That is where the "showing" comes in. "Oh," the audience thinks, "-- he's merely this." Then, "Oh no -- he's also that."

And what will be the consequence of him being not only this -- but also that?

NMS
 

rami

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A great example of this is that great scene from Silence of the Lambs when Clarice recounts the story of the killing of the spring lambs to Hannibal Lechter.

Why do we stay with Clarice and Lechter during this long, extended story? Why not flash back and show her as a little girl with the sheep? Wouldn't that be much more visual, much more dramatic? Wouldn't that be "showing" rather than "telling?"

No. Because "show, don't tell" has nothing to do with whether we "visualize" particular incidents -- whether the incident of the sheep are visualized in a flashback or described by Clarice.

The question is -- where is the *dramatic content* of the scene. Where is the actual "scene" happening? Back with Clarice as a little girl with the sheep? No. The scene is about Lechter forcing the adult Clarice to reveal the deepest emotional secret about herself in exchange for life and death information - and she has to do it.

The "story" is happening in the present, with the adult Clarice -- and that's where the camera needs to be pointed -- not at the past at the little girl Clarice and the sheep.


Not to be barking up the wrong tree here, or stirring up a drama pot of some kind, but, if memory serves, this part sounds like it was almost ripped straight out "Screenplay". I'm not meaning to be a prick or anything. I know Syd Field uses the same example, but... I don't know. Anyway.

Though, I really appreciated the use/explanation of "beaten down by life".

Thanks, NMS.
 

weaponx

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Well, as a script writer isn't our jobs to tell the director and actors what they need to do? Why wouldn't we describe what the character is feeling? We tell them every other aspect of the story. An actor or director can choose to interpret it differently or change it to fit their idea of the character but everything they do is based on the script a writer provides.

And I think the rule show don't tell is just that. A rule. As a writer you create characters and give them emotions so you need to figure out a way to show what they are feeling without saying, "he walked in the door but was really sad."
 

cameron_chapman

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Well, as a script writer isn't our jobs to tell the director and actors what they need to do?

No. Our job is to tell a story.

Why wouldn't we describe what the character is feeling? We tell them every other aspect of the story. An actor or director can choose to interpret it differently or change it to fit their idea of the character but everything they do is based on the script a writer provides.

My argument was that if we're too specific, they may not come up with something different and potentially better. Even if it's not set in stone, the way we describe something is going to have a huge influence over how the director and actor interpret it. I think it's better to give basic cues, and to tell things creatively so you give more of a sense of direction than simply "Bob was sad" or whatever, but not to the point that you remove all chance for creative interpretation on the part of the filmmakers.

And I think the rule show don't tell is just that. A rule. As a writer you create characters and give them emotions so you need to figure out a way to show what they are feeling without saying, "he walked in the door but was really sad."

There's no such thing as a hard-and-fast rule in writing. Rules=guidelines, at best. Rules are great for beginners, as it keeps you from making common mistakes. But as long as you understand the purpose behind the "rule", then you can avoid the mistakes and still break the rules. There are times when telling is a perfectly valid writing tool, whether in novels, short stories, screenplays, or any other written work.
 

weaponx

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No. Our job is to tell a story.

Yes, that's exactly my point. I have a feeling we have similar opinions you simply misunderstood me. We are the story tellers so we are the decider. We create the story and characters reactions. It is our job to do so. Without us there would be no film.

My argument was that if we're too specific, they may not come up with something different and potentially better. Even if it's not set in stone, the way we describe something is going to have a huge influence over how the director and actor interpret it.

You shouldn't be worried about how you are influencing the the director or actors since they are reproducing YOUR story for screen. Not the other way around. If they are producing your script it's because they believe in the choices you have made.

Scripts are constantly changed during production anyway so I don't worry much about it. There will always be creative interpretation no matter what. If I say a MC "lets out a single tear" the actor could easily decide he would like to punch a wall instead but you still have to write what reaction is right for your characters.

And I would say show don't tell is certainly a rule that should be followed almost always since movies are definitely a visual medium. I can't think of a situation where a few talking heads would ever be better than a visual telling of info.
 

cameron_chapman

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And I would say show don't tell is certainly a rule that should be followed almost always since movies are definitely a visual medium. I can't think of a situation where a few talking heads would ever be better than a visual telling of info.

Obviously, but I can tell you something in the script that is then shown visually on screen. Telling in the script does not equal telling in the final product.

ETA: What you're saying there is the equivalent of having two people talk about a fight scene, rather than actually writing the fight scene. But if I want to leave it up to the fight choreographer and director how, specifically, to do the fight scene, I might write something like "They fight. After a brief struggle, Character A emerges the victor." or something along those lines. It's telling in the script, but you'd never know that in the finished film.
 
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weaponx

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I still think it is always better to show rather than tell even in a script. I don't leave parts of my script up to other people. I like to write it myself and if they want to change it later they can.

And I feel it's more dynamic to describe a short battle rather than simply say, "They fight." Anytime I put in a fight something important happens or it progresses the story so I'll always write it out. Especially when a character loses his weapon or gets his hand cut off by a lightsaber. I just don't like leaving the details for others.
 

nmstevens

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Not to be barking up the wrong tree here, or stirring up a drama pot of some kind, but, if memory serves, this part sounds like it was almost ripped straight out "Screenplay". I'm not meaning to be a prick or anything. I know Syd Field uses the same example, but... I don't know. Anyway.

Though, I really appreciated the use/explanation of "beaten down by life".

Thanks, NMS.


To be honest, my days of reading books on screenwriting are long past -- I've been in the business in one way or another for something close to twenty years.

The point is, the fundamentals of how to do this stuff aren't exactly secret. While writing anything is an art, this art, like any other, also has a great deal of craft to it and those who do this stuff for a living tend to speak and understand the same language of "craft."

Just as beginners tend to get the same things wrong in any field of endeavor -- if you've ever taught it's not as if every new class comes in with a whole new bunch of mistakes -- it tends to be -- new faces -- same old mistakes -- so it is with screenwriting.

So this whole question of "show and tell" has come up many times before and beginners tend to get it wrong and have gotten it wrong many times in the past.

And if you're looking around for an example that clearly highlights the difference -- that scene from Silence of the Lambs really is a perfect exemplar.

As for Syd Fields, I'm afraid the last time I read anything by him was long before Silence of the Lambs came out so this will just have to be chalked up to great or maybe not-so-great minds thinking alike in this case.

NMS
 

Jehhillenberg

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Depends. :)

I guess I think along the lines of, what's the easiest and shortest way to convey this? Whether it's a little bit of show mixed with a little bit of tell maybe doesn't matter, as long as it's something the reader can visualize and the actor (eventually) can emote.

Pausing an extra moment to find the right verbs for the mood can help, e.g. and just for fun's sake,

Head bowed, shoulders slumped in defeat, Carlos trudges along the hall to his apartment.

-Derek

I agree
 

wlz

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Hey there, y'all. I'm just curious as to what everyone thinks on this whole show vs tell business.

I'm no stranger to writing or to the concept, but screenplays are new to me. I know SVT still applies, but it seems to work differently in this form.

Now, I've read a bunch of script that will describe the MC as "defeated" or having "lost hope" or whatever the case may be. In my brain, that's telling. Sure, you can show it later, but you still told me. I've also read this is the thing to do.

On the other hand, I've read and seen the opposite. Don't tell the reader the MC is defeated, show them through his actions.

Any thoughts on this? Is it just a matter of preference?

I think you are making reference to "stage direction" which in some cases is set apart from the narrative so to speak. -Regardless of it being in the same line of description. I'm not so sure I get the point of such discussions as these plus others of a similar nature which I've come across on the forum. (And I think Syd Field is brilliant!)
 
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