Prophecy

Deb Kinnard · May 22, 2011

As a writing-element, that is to say...

Would this work for you? Catholic and non-Catholic, need opinions from any and all.

First, let me point that I write seat-of-the-pants. My characters sometimes take over without notice. So what I start out to write in the morning isn't always what appears on the page by afternoon.

My issue is this: I have a scene in progress where a secondary character (a monk who's been taken captive) is giving counsel to my main character. It's 973, they're Viking slaves in Ireland...you envision the scene. She confesses to him that she's begun to despair of her life ever getting any better--after all, she's a slave.

Suddenly, he begins to prophesy. He tells her that the Vikings' age will not endure for long, and that the Norse everywhere will seek the true Faith.

I have no issue with what he's saying -- it's the fact that it comes out as prophecy that's bothering me a bit (why, oh why, can these people not do what I tell them?). Would the Church be okay with a monk who occasionally prophesies? Of course they embrace the Acts 2 gifts nowadays, but what about the past? Any church historians to tell me: yeah, this is all right (in moderation); or no, this wouldn't have been accepted in a common Brother.

Thoughts? Thanks to any and all who weigh in.

Calla Lily · May 22, 2011

I'm thinking that if he went to his Superior and told him he'd prophesied, the Superior would question him about what happened, did he hear voices, did he sense the Holy Ghost, etc. Then I think the next thing his superior would do is lecture him on humility and possibly give him penance to perform. And then wait it out to see if what he prophesied came to pass.

Is there a reason he wouldn't just keep this to himself?

Deb Kinnard · May 22, 2011

Well, right now he doesn't have a superior -- he, like my main character, is a Viking captive, technically (in his master's eyes) a slave to be sold with the others. He's in a land that's Christian (Ireland) but in the Viking enclave at Dublin, the pagans were pretty much left to their own devices. He has nobody to go to. The Viking leader is quite superstitious, but he doesn't hear this conversation. It's just between the monk and my main character (woman).

I like the conversation, though I'm not quite sure where it came from. It does advance the story, since he's trying to give hope to this woman who's very young and confused.

I don't understand the "lecture on humility" part, though. Is it considered prideful (penance-worthy) to pass along the words of the Holy Spirit? Or was it considered so in these times?

Thoughts beyond that? Would it even be possible?

Calla Lily · May 22, 2011

There's a mindset that religious (monks, nuns, etc.) are the humblest servants and to "elevate themselves" to the level of a prophet would be considered prideful. I think that's consistent with the era you're writing in--but I'm much more familiar with the Middle ages, so definitely don't take my word for it.

However, your monk could easily and logically be amazed and humbled and a bit frightened by his experience. A "Why did God choose me? I'm unworthy." moment.

CACTUSWENDY · May 22, 2011

I agree with Lily about the humble part. I bet there was this sort of thing going on since the very first. Either through visions....dreams...voices...angels making an appearance. I think the monk would have been hesitant on sharing this at first, but would have told her. IMHO

citymouse · May 22, 2011

First this is fiction. That said, if you want to satisfy your readers, I'd do this. Have your monk say that before his captivity he was an illuminist in some monastery, say St Columba of Iona (597AD) for example.
When questions arise, even in his own mind, he can cite the Book of Joel which he had the fortune to illuminate. ...I will pour out My spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions.

Then when confronted your monk can use these words to confound disbelievers. You can even make it a miracle.

Deb Kinnard · May 23, 2011

Oh, I like both of those solutions. City, he's too late for Iona (this is 973), but he can quote Joel. In this pre-literate (not all the clergy could read and write) society, my bet is that the religious committed a great deal of scripture to memory. And I like the amazement bit, too. There's no one but this young woman to tell about his feelings when this prophecy sort of pours out of him. It's very spontaneous, like most of the moves of the Holy Spirit I've seen that give rise to the spoken word. So I'm planning to incorporate all of this, and have Br. Ambrose perhaps tell the young woman that he plans to share all this with his superior -- if he ever by God's grace lives again in a monastery.

Thank you, thank you, thank you all!

citymouse · May 23, 2011

Glad I could help a bit. When I mentioned St Columba. I meant that your monk could have worked on manuscripts at the monastery Columba founded on the island of Iona. The abbey there is the burial site of 8 Norwegian and 4 Irish kings. It's still there so you timeline shouldn't apply.

Deb Kinnard said:
Oh, I like both of those solutions. City, he's too late for Iona (this is 973), but he can quote Joel. In this pre-literate (not all the clergy could read and write) society, my bet is that the religious committed a great deal of scripture to memory. And I like the amazement bit, too. There's no one but this young woman to tell about his feelings when this prophecy sort of pours out of him. It's very spontaneous, like most of the moves of the Holy Spirit I've seen that give rise to the spoken word. So I'm planning to incorporate all of this, and have Br. Ambrose perhaps tell the young woman that he plans to share all this with his superior -- if he ever by God's grace lives again in a monastery.

Thank you, thank you, thank you all!

Successful Writer · May 23, 2011

citymouse said:
First this is fiction. That said, if you want to satisfy your readers, I'd do this. Have your monk say that before his captivity he was an illuminist in some monastery, say St Columba of Iona (597AD) for example.
When questions arise, even in his own mind, he can cite the Book of Joel which he had the fortune to illuminate. ...I will pour out My spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions.

Then when confronted you monk can use these words to confound disbelievers. You can even make it a miracle.

Very good suggestion.

Prophecy

Deb Kinnard

Calla Lily

On hiatus

Deb Kinnard

Calla Lily

On hiatus

CACTUSWENDY

An old, sappy, and happy one.

citymouse

fantasy dweller

Deb Kinnard

citymouse

fantasy dweller

Successful Writer