Standing Desk

ejket · May 14, 2011

I'm surprised to find very little mention of standing desks on AW. Many people here spend a lot of time in front of computers, and from what I've read, spending at least some of that time standing can make a large, positive difference to your health. Since you burn many more calories standing compared to sitting, it can help you control your weight, and standing helps mitigate back problems and such (it's noticeably helped me already with a bad knee that seizes up when I sit too long). By many reports, you can even focus better while standing.

You can spend a fortune on a standing desk, or you can improvise. I started off with a laptop on the shelf of a bookcase, just to see if I liked it. I adjusted the shelf until it was a perfect height for me (I'm 6'2" and roughly 4 feet is good). I liked it a lot, so I bought a second-hand coffee table to put on top of my desk. (Total investment, $15). This gives me the use of three desktops (2 monitors) while standing.

It's a little early to assess the long-term benefits of my setup, since I've only had it for a few days. I'm optimistic, though. I normally spend at least 6 hours a day in front of a computer (twice that on a day off work), and it's simply not healthy to sit that much. I already feel better; for example, at the end of the first day I had that good, tired feeling you get when you've been active.

(I do have a sitting alternative: a laptop on a wooden tray that I can use in my leather chair. You don't have to stand every minute of the day.)

I just thought I'd pass this idea along, and I'm also curious to hear if anyone else has had experience with standing desks.

alleycat · May 14, 2011

I used to work with CAD on computer workstations (back when PCs weren't powerfully enough to handle the task). The workstation would raise up and down. Every so often I would raise it all the way up and work standing for a little while. It is nice when you can do that.

Purple Rose · May 14, 2011

I'll try this on a bookshelf tomorrow. Sounds like a good idea and i'm sure it has good benefits. I'm just not sure I'll like it.

ejket · May 14, 2011

@ alleycat:
Standing alternatives are pretty common (and outrageously expensive) in that industry, I think. Even a modest drafting table can usually (always?) go high enough so that you can use it standing -- I had one that could do that, anyway. The industrial-strength standing desks you can buy for $800 (Geekdesk), $1,500, and up have motors to raise and lower them. Too fancy for me

@ Purple Rose:
When you use a bookcase, you want deep shelves and not such a big laptop. I found that my 13.3" MacBook worked well on an 11" shelf and not so well on a 9" shelf. A 15.6" or larger laptop might be too awkward to use this way -- too tippy when you get the screen at a good angle. Of course a netbook would be good in this situation.

If you find the bookcase unworkable, try the top of a dresser or various-sized boxes on top of a table or desk.

Linda Adams · May 14, 2011

In case anyone hasn't heard of standing desks, they're a desk that can be adjusted to a high where you can stand at them to do your writing. Some can range from fairly inexpensive to thousands of dollars. Ikea has one that's relatively inexpensive, under $200.

Since I'm kinesthetic and like to move around, I did seriously consider getting one. But I didn't want to spend a small fortune on more expensive ones, and the ones that were available to me had other elements that I didn't like, like the hutch and a lack of usable storage. I ended up going with a more standard desk.

alleycat · May 14, 2011

I think most companies have gotten rid of them by now, but for a while they were giving away the old CAD workstations (the bottom part was a power operated table). The only problem was they weighed so much.

Everything has been replaced with PCs these days.

Jamesaritchie · May 14, 2011

Just standing really isn't any better for your health than sitting, and can be just as bad. Standing for long periods simply causes different damage than sitting. Nor do you burn many more calories. From twelve to forty more per hour, depending on your body type. To get near the forty, you'd better be pretty fat, and even then this is not enough to matter.

Talk to people who have jobs where they have to stand for six or eight hours. It's a miserable experience, and can ruin your feet and knees. And just like sitting, it's not good for your back, either.

Even if you did burn a bunch more calories, which you won't, it takes real exercise to help your body, not just standing.

Standing versus sitting simply isn't the problem. If you want to improve your health, you need at least half an hour of vigorous exercise each and every day. To make any real difference in your health, you have to raise your heartbeat way, way up, and you have to actually use muscles and tendons in a way that stretches them.

If you don't, you lose muscle mass, the muscles get weaker and weaker, and the heart is a muscle. Tendons and muscles both lose the ability to stretch, and when a tendon tears, it cannot heal itself.

Standing just does not burn many more calories than sitting, and if calories really mattered, skinny people would never have heart attacks, but they do. Vigorous exercise and good diet matter.

You should stand while writing if standing is what you prefer, and if standing makes you more comfortable. But you should not stand because you think it will make you healthier. It won't.

Nothing comes close to replacing real exercise each day, but if you really want to help your health while writing, get a desk with a built in treadmill. They generally cost less than five hundred books, and while even they can't replace fast walking outside the house, and workout at a gym, they actually do make a real difference. Just standing does not.

ejket · May 14, 2011

Linda Adams said:
Ikea has one that's relatively inexpensive, under $200.

Yes, if you google "standing desks" you'll see lots of Ikea mods and DIY from Ikea parts, but these generally seem better for average-height people. They don't go high enough for people over 6'.

Linda Adams said:
Since I'm kinesthetic and like to move around, I did seriously consider getting one.

I'm exactly the same, and I find my setup liberating. The other night I had some music on while I was typing and I was dancing around while at the keyboard. I didn't belabor all the benefits in my OP, but if you're a certain kind of person, a standing desk can provide a whole new work experience.

bluntforcetrauma · May 14, 2011

I spent years standing in factories. The damage resulted in foot surgery that wasn't very effective. I've still got painful feet and lower back aches (most likely due to heavy lifting and hand digging sewer lines). I had a heart attack in January, regardless of all my years of hard labor.

muravyets · May 14, 2011

Men's Health did a recent piece on the health benefits of standing while working at least part of the time. I found it on Yahoo News. Link. I think the key is to know your own body and also not to stay in one position for too long.

I'm currently struggling with bad desk arrangements in my house. I'm short and have certain joint issues, so it's hard to find a good fitting chair and very bad to work in a poorly fitting chair. I'm constantly rearranging my writing surfaces and computer set-up, looking for a good combo where I can alternately stand and sit depending on the writing I'm doing. I do most of my artwork standing, but the work tables still aren't high enough for writing on.

ejket · May 14, 2011

The deleterious effects of long sedentary hours far outweigh those of standing at least some of that time if you account for the following: you don't have to stand in front of your computer like a robot the same as you do on an assembly line. No one said that you can't move around, take sitting breaks, use a gel pad if you want to, or even discover why bars have foot-rails. All of these things mitigate the back and foot problems you might get from standing.

The human body does not thrive when forced to stay in one position very long, no matter what that position is, and you have much more mobility when you stand. It's pretty much that simple.

As I said, I mix sitting and standing and I move around a lot, just as any sensible person would if they had the option to do so. This is nothing like the scenario covered by industrial-based studies, so they're not even relevant.

ejket · May 14, 2011

muravyets said:
I'm currently struggling with bad desk arrangements in my house. I'm short and have certain joint issues, so it's hard to find a good fitting chair and very bad to work in a poorly fitting chair. I'm constantly rearranging my writing surfaces and computer set-up, looking for a good combo where I can alternately stand and sit depending on the writing I'm doing. I do most of my artwork standing, but the work tables still aren't high enough for writing on.

Can you add some height to part of a work table? I needed to keep my desk for sentimental reasons, and the coffee table I added for height is less than half the width of the desk. This spoils the option of sitting at the desk normally, but it would work for a table to go half and half.

I read somewhere that Thomas Wolfe used the top of his fridge as a writing desk. There are all kinds of possibilities if you're willing to experiment and improvise.

Linda Adams · May 14, 2011

ejket said:
Yes, if you google "standing desks" you'll see lots of Ikea mods and DIY from Ikea parts, but these generally seem better for average-height people. They don't go high enough for people over 6'.

One of my other considerations was the possibility that I might not be able to adjust the height right. I'm of average height, but in the past, I've found that sometimes what's standard doesn't always hit me in the right place. When I was on crutches, there was no way for me to adjust them properly. They either were too high (where the doctor adjusted them) or too low. Nothing in between. I would have hated to buy a desk and run into the same problem.

ejket · May 14, 2011

Linda Adams said:
One of my other considerations was the possibility that I might not be able to adjust the height right. I'm of average height, but in the past, I've found that sometimes what's standard doesn't always hit me in the right place.

I found that the height doesn't need to be exact to be comfortable. My initial experiments determined the ideal height for me at 47.75" but I ended up with a bit over 50". So it's probably fine within a few inches.

I recommend experimenting without spending money, though. For one thing, I don't think this idea is for everyone, so it's good to test it out first as a proof of concept thing; for another, no one but you can decide what feels good.

artemis31386 · May 14, 2011

Alternating between sitting and standing can be good for your muscles, but standing for long periods of time can cause a lot of really painful conditions that most people don't think about. It can also impact the circulation to your lower extremities.

Its best to take breaks and change positions every once in a while.

Devil Ledbetter · May 14, 2011

I have a full-time desk job and would love a standing desk. I feel like a potted plant by the middle of the week. I'm going to seriously look into this.

muravyets · May 14, 2011

ejket said:
Can you add some height to part of a work table? I needed to keep my desk for sentimental reasons, and the coffee table I added for height is less than half the width of the desk. This spoils the option of sitting at the desk normally, but it would work for a table to go half and half.

I read somewhere that Thomas Wolfe used the top of his fridge as a writing desk. There are all kinds of possibilities if you're willing to experiment and improvise.

I can, but I don't have a laptop, and my desktop doubles as my tv so moving it into the studio would not be optimal. It's in the living room next to the rolltop desk. What I need is to put a suitably high surface in the living room which is, basically, my writing and lounging area (I fling too much paint and plaster in the studio to want to put the computer in there). I need something I can use in tandem with the rolltop for handwriting and general paperwork, with an adjustable task chair high enough for the standing desk so I have the option to stand or sit at either work surface.

Yes, I do spend tons of time thinking about this, but the wrong chairs and work surfaces have been alternately giving me back pain and aggravating the tendonitis in my knee for a few years now. I need to work something out. So the experiments continue, and when I get the right combo, I'll install a permanent furniture feature to support it.

ETA: I've actually seen a photo of Wolfe writing on the refrigerator but I haven't yet found it again. He was very tall, apparently.

BenPanced · May 14, 2011

bluntforcetrauma said:
I spent years standing in factories. The damage resulted in foot surgery that wasn't very effective. I've still got painful feet and lower back aches (most likely due to heavy lifting and hand digging sewer lines). I had a heart attack in January, regardless of all my years of hard labor.

In my case, I don't see how it could be beneficial. I have arthritis in my spine and knees, and the additional time on my feet could only mean additional weight load where I don't need it. I'll pass.

ejket · May 14, 2011

artemis31386 said:
Alternating between sitting and standing can be good for your muscles, but standing for long periods of time can cause a lot of really painful conditions that most people don't think about. It can also impact the circulation to your lower extremities.

Its best to take breaks and change positions every once in a while.

I completely agree. You have to mix it up. Being forced to stand all the time is as bad as being forced to sit all the time. I only stand when I feel like standing, but this happens to be most of the time. (Right now I'm sitting, though.)

I'm experienced with the downsides of both sitting and standing. I've had cortisone shots in both my shoulders from excessive computer use, and I've been having nontrivial problems with my knees over the past year or so -- this is from sitting for too long at a time. I've also had crippling plantar fasciitis from my job (I'm a hospital porter and I walk 10-12 miles every shift on concrete/terrazzo floors), but I solved that with physio and orthotics.

The main thing I'm suggesting is that excess in all things is bad. That's why a standing desk option for writers is a good idea IMO. Being too sedentary in itself is not healthy; add the problems that flow from overdoing any particular posture, and it's simply smart to consider alternatives that provide some variety.

ejket · May 14, 2011

BenPanced said:
In my case, I don't see how it could be beneficial. I have arthritis in my spine and knees, and the additional time on my feet could only mean additional weight load where I don't need it. I'll pass.

I sympathize, but I still think that being stuck in one posture is not going to benefit you at all, either. (I have experience with paraplegics and quads, so I know how destructive limited mobility can be.)

Still, your point is well-taken: if it hurts, don't do it.

ejket · May 14, 2011

muravyets said:
I need to work something out. So the experiments continue, and when I get the right combo, I'll install a permanent furniture feature to support it.

Good luck with it. I was strongly motivated because I was off work this last week with a seized knee. Now I'm fine and ready to return to work on Monday. I only missed 4 days work in total, and I credit my standing desk setup in part for my quick recovery. I feel pretty strong on my feet right now.

But, yeah, take the time to make it work with what you've got while spending the least amount of money.

muravyets said:
ETA: I've actually seen a photo of Wolfe writing on the refrigerator but I haven't yet found it again. He was very tall, apparently.

I'm only 6'2" but I could use my 12 cubic ft. beer fridge as a writing desk. My main 23 cubic ft. fridge... well, not so much

ladyleeona · May 14, 2011

I've stashed my laptop in a bookshelf before (the only thing that was semi-sturdy and about the right height), just to try the whole standing up thing. I liked it. But I 1) weary of sitting in one position all day and 2) am desperately trying to avoid trucker-butt, so the change up is good for me.

Although I don't think I'd go as far to buying a standing desk, it probably really works well for some.

fivetoesten · May 15, 2011

I made my own standing desk not too long ago as tall as my elbows. It turned out nice. I also want to get a tall stool for it so I'll have some more "moving around" options.

sheilas_world · May 15, 2011

There are scrapbookers who work standing up, and some who alternate sitting with standing, it's actually pretty popular. I'm in the process of rearranging my crafting shed so I can do this.

As for work surfaces, I've seen some bistro tables (I think that's what they're called) that might be the right height, and there are chairs/stools to go with them.

I don't actually have space for anything like this right now--or a laptop--so I get up often and move around, walk outside, anything to keep mobile. Plus it allows me to rest my hands when I've had a massive typing session.

maestrowork · May 15, 2011

I sometimes stand to use my iPad (in the kitchen, at the book shelves, etc). But I can't stand for now - it does something to my lower back.

Standing Desk

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