Concerned about illegal downloads of YA novels

Libros09 · May 14, 2011

To all of you published YA authors:

It has come to my attention that a website is allowing illegal (free) downloads of many YA novels, many of which have recently been released. I'm talking about 2010 and 2011 debut novels here. I have contacted several publishers to let them know about this.

I don't want to give the website name here or name the authors, to avoid giving too much attention to these illegal downloads. However, if you are published author, I encourage you to google your name and see what you find. Or you can send me a personal message and I'll send you the link to the website so you can search for your name and book.

I reported the illegal downloads to the administrators of the website, but I don't know if they will take action. I also posted warnings on the website that the downloads are illegal. Here is the response that I received from an unknown user of the site:

Downloading copyright books is not really bad compare to other illegal things you can do. Authors still make good money if they write a really good book that people enjoy. 90% of people love buying books and don't like reading on a computer. Look at the Twilight series! I bet you can go online and down it for free everywhere, but lots of people still buy it. The author is very, very rich.!!!!!!

95% of members from this website upload copyright books. You won't be able to get everyone to stop, unless this website is no more!! And if you do, people are just going to upload copyright books some where else.

BLECH!! I am SO disgusted by this. As an aspiring author who has a few friends who are YA novelists, I know what authors go through to achieve publication, and that most of them are NOT rich. Even if they were, does that mean they should be stolen from? It's sickening!!!

Is there anything else I can do to stop this??

dpaterso · May 14, 2011

Contact the publishers whose books appear on this site and give them this information.

-Derek

Libros09 · May 14, 2011

Hi, Derek...

Yeah, I sent e-mails to several publishers about this. I also wanted to put it on here so authors will know what's going on and can contact their own publishers. I'm totally outraged! I'm trying so hard to get a book published, and if someone stole it from me...ARGGH!! This detracts from the authors' sales, etc. I'm just horrified.

James D. Macdonald · May 14, 2011

Authors are severely underpaid. Publishers work on very thin margins.

If you like an author you should buy their books. The numbers will make a difference in whether that author will be offered a contract for their next book.

If you want to silence your favorite author, pirate their books.

JulieB · May 14, 2011

If the web site is hosted in the US you can file a DMCA notice. Some sites outside of the US will respect requests to take down copyrighted material, but it's kind of hit and miss. A good resource is Plagiarism Today. They have a lot of useful information.

Chasing these types down isn't easy, and chances are they'll just resurface elsewhere.

And yes, contacting your publisher is an excellent idea. In most cases your publisher's attorneys will have more clout than a single author. Still, it's a good idea (IMO) to also file on your own. And if you're self-published or the rights to the work have been reverted to you, you'll either have to do it on your own or hire an attorney.

Sometimes you have to dig to find out who to send the notice to. Plagiarism Today has some resources that will help. While you're there, read up on the process. Not only are there specific steps you have to take, but the site/person hosting the material has rights, too. (This is to help protect people from bogus demands to remove material and give them the opportunity to prove that it's not infringing.)

Piracy isn't going to stop. People will do it because they can. But attitudes like the one expressed in your quote really tick me off.

Libros09 · May 14, 2011

Thanks for your replies. Well, I have e-mailed several publishers so hopefully they will do something.

I know, that message made me want to jump through the screen and strangle that person! The comments are so ignorant...oh, Stephanie Meyer is "rich" so it's okay to steal from her??! Give me a break! I guess it's okay to break into a house and steal if the owner is rich. That's genius logic right there.

And new authors, as we know, are not rich. Just because someone published a book does not make him or her rich!! In fact, it's typically just the opposite...this is usually not a lucrative profession. So to be so cavalier about stealing sales from authors who work so hard...and to have it affect that authors' advance earn-out and possible future sales of new books...ugh...you can see I'm an aspiring author and very worked up.

Robocracy Now · May 14, 2011

At least books are not movies or music. You can watch a movie on a big monitor just as well as you can on a television. You can listen to an illegally downloaded song on an Ipod just as well as you can if you got it off a CD. BUT, try to curl up in bed with your notebook, or doggy ear a desk top, or whip out a laptop on a long bus ride.

This is an issue, but thanks to the nature of books, it will never be as big an issue as the piracy of music of movies.

Libros09 · May 14, 2011

Robocracy Now said:
At least books are not movies or music. You can watch a movie on a big monitor just as well as you can on a television. You can listen to an illegally downloaded song on an Ipod just as well as you can if you got it off a CD. BUT, try to curl up in bed with your notebook, or doggy ear a desk top, or whip out a laptop on a long bus ride.

This is an issue, but thanks to the nature of books, it will never be as big an issue as the piracy of music of movies.

I appreciate your viewpoint, but the piracy of books is just as offensive as the piracy of any other intellectual property for which the creator and distributor are being robbed of payment.

In fact, it's worse, because very few authors receive high advances (and most actors and musicians are very well paid). Many writers receive just a few thousand dollars (if that much), and might not receive royalties or future deals from their publishers if the advance is not earned out. If books are read for free, it will be much more difficult for an author to earn out an advance. Also, some people might not mind reading a book on a computer screen if it's for free.

So...really, stealing books is no different than stealing anything else. A person would be arrested for walking out of Barnes & Noble with an armful of books and not paying, right? So what's the difference if the thievery is online? There is no difference.

Becca C. · May 14, 2011

Robocracy Now said:
BUT, try to curl up in bed with your notebook, or doggy ear a desk top, or whip out a laptop on a long bus ride.

This is an issue, but thanks to the nature of books, it will never be as big an issue as the piracy of music of movies.

Ever heard of eReaders? Smartphones? People aren't just reading electronic books on laptops and big chunky desktop computers. The portability of eReaders and other eReading devices makes reading pirated books just as easy as listening to pirated music and watching pirated movies.

Alessandra Kelley · May 14, 2011

Libros09 said:
very few authors receive high advances (and most actors and musicians are very well paid).

I'm sorry, that's not true. Most actors and musicians are as poorly paid as authors (actors -- and artists -- actually do worse, on average). I agree that all piracy is scuzzy, but let's not lose track that all creative types are victims here.

Libros09 · May 14, 2011

Alessandra Kelley said:
I'm sorry, that's not true. Most actors and musicians are as poorly paid as authors (actors -- and artists -- actually do worse, on average). I agree that all piracy is scuzzy, but let's not lose track that all creative types are victims here.

You are right...even if actors are highly paid, nobody should steal from them. I was just using high-paid artists as a comparison because most writers are not well-paid. In no way did I mean to imply that stealing from any artist is acceptable. So thanks for making me clarify that! And we are in agreement that all piracy is inexcusable.

Libros09 · May 14, 2011

Becca C. said:
Ever heard of eReaders? Smartphones? People aren't just reading electronic books on laptops and big chunky desktop computers. The portability of eReaders and other eReading devices makes reading pirated books just as easy as listening to pirated music and watching pirated movies.

SO TRUE! Good point.

Danielz · May 14, 2011

Sure, steal from us, everybody here is a millionaire. The problem is that everybody hears about the extreme cases like Rowling, Meier and King, but for each millionaire there are thousands of struggling authors.

bleustock · May 14, 2011

Always a good idea to keep tabs on your book online.

I have a friend who recently discovered that Amazon was selling a kindle version of her out-of-print book, despite the fact that she herself owned the electronic rights. Amazon was not paying her a cent. She had to email a whole host of people and threaten to lawyer up before they agreed to take it down.

Libros09 · May 14, 2011

Danielz said:
Sure, steal from us, everybody here is a millionaire. The problem is that everybody hears about the extreme cases like Rowling, Meier and King, but for each millionaire there are thousands of struggling authors.

I'm laughing! That is so true. If I get a book deal, I'll be happy for whatever meager sum I might make as an advance, but I will not be happy if I find that people are stealing my book and taking money out of my pocket. It's shocking that many readers think that all published authors are rich. What a joke.

Libros09 · May 14, 2011

bleustock said:
Always a good idea to keep tabs on your book online.

I have a friend who recently discovered that Amazon was selling a kindle version of her out-of-print book, despite the fact that she herself owned the electronic rights. Amazon was not paying her a cent. She had to email a whole host of people and threaten to lawyer up before they agreed to take it down.

Wow, that's terrible.

I'm new here, but I'm glad that I joined and started this discussion. Thanks for making me feel welcome. I'm pretty riled up about the book stealing! I hope that many authors will read our posts and make sure they are not being robbed behind their backs.

eventidepress · May 14, 2011

UGH that is so sickening. Thanks for alerting people about that. I'd say yeah, emailing the publishers about the site is the best way to do it...

Cyia · May 14, 2011

Usually, you can send a message to the author or their webmaster and let them know the site (get them a download link, if possible, to show them it's an active link).

However, you can't assume that a download is an actual lost sale. I used to think this myself, but it's really not true. Most people who pirate books would never have bought the book to begin with. (No, I'm not excusing the practice.)

There are some file sharing sites (the legit ones designed to allow people to move large, personal files from person to person or computer to computer) that will take down copyrighted material once they're made aware of its presence, and then they can set up a filter to make sure new uploads are stopped before they become active.

Homework and term paper sites are also pretty big on sharing ebooks. It's another case of the system being set up for students to share public domain classics they're assigned and using the technology to spread new releases.

thebloodfiend · May 14, 2011

First we have to define piracy. Is borrowing a book from a library(physical or electronic) piracy? No. Can anyone in America do it? Yes.

You can't compare piracy to stealing something physical unless money is being made. If someone likes a book, they'll usually buy it. If not, they'll never read it again.

In terms of author sales, is an author profiting from someone borrowing a book from a library or a friend loaning their copy of a book? If someone bought it, that's one sale. Someone had to buy the ebook, or rather a license to read the ebook that's still one sale. If I buy an ebook for the same price as a hardback book, I think I have the right to share it with anyone I like.

How do you even define the price of entertainment? What can you charge for words? And is the reader doing the author a favor by reading their work, or is the author doing a reader a favor by letting them read their work? I buy books that I like. It's as simple as that. But I'm not going to buy a book that I'm unsure about or that I disliked. Sure, you can resell a book, but you're never going to get all the money back. And if the book is that bad, you might as well read something of equal value off of fictionpress for free.

And I say this as an aspiring author. Money is nice, but readership is better. If more people read your book, regardless of how they got it, that equals higher sales. I'd say piracy helps obscure authors. If I see a pirated book and I read it and I like it, I'm buying it, reviewing it, and telling all of my friends to read it. I'm not going to buy that book on the fly without knowing what's inside. When you're in a recession and you're kind of broke, you often have no choice if you want to read. If I was rich, things would be different. But as it stands, saying that I can't read a book unless it's in a library or I purchase it because piracy is as bad as breaking into someone's house is kind of ridiculous. You can't even compare. And I've had my house broken into and my stuff stolen. No comparison at all.

Cyia · May 14, 2011

thebloodfiend said:
And I say this as an aspiring author. Money is nice, but readership is better.

In your opinion.

If more people read your book, regardless of how they got it, that equals higher sales.

Not always.

I'd say piracy helps obscure authors.

It doesn't.

If I see a pirated book and I read it and I like it, I'm buying it, reviewing it, and telling all of my friends to read it.

Then you are in the extreme minority. Also, in what way are you encouraging your friends to read it? Do you tell them to shell out money? Or do you pass them the file first?

I'm not going to buy that book on the fly without knowing what's inside.

Amazon has this thing called "Look inside". Also, many e-books come with the option of pre-loading 20% of the full book. That's enough to determine if you like the content or not.

When you're in a recession and you're kind of broke, you often have no choice if you want to read. If I was rich, things would be different.

Not really.

BenPanced · May 14, 2011

thebloodfiend said:
First we have to define piracy. Is borrowing a book from a library(physical or electronic) piracy? No. Can anyone in America do it? Yes.

You can't compare piracy to stealing something physical unless money is being made. If someone likes a book, they'll usually buy it. If not, they'll never read it again.

In terms of author sales, is an author profiting from someone borrowing a book from a library or a friend loaning their copy of a book? If someone bought it, that's one sale. Someone had to buy the ebook, or rather a license to read the ebook that's still one sale. If I buy an ebook for the same price as a hardback book, I think I have the right to share it with anyone I like.

How do you even define the price of entertainment? What can you charge for words? And is the reader doing the author a favor by reading their work, or is the author doing a reader a favor by letting them read their work? I buy books that I like. It's as simple as that. But I'm not going to buy a book that I'm unsure about or that I disliked. Sure, you can resell a book, but you're never going to get all the money back. And if the book is that bad, you might as well read something of equal value off of fictionpress for free.

And I say this as an aspiring author. Money is nice, but readership is better. If more people read your book, regardless of how they got it, that equals higher sales. I'd say piracy helps obscure authors. If I see a pirated book and I read it and I like it, I'm buying it, reviewing it, and telling all of my friends to read it. I'm not going to buy that book on the fly without knowing what's inside. When you're in a recession and you're kind of broke, you often have no choice if you want to read. If I was rich, things would be different. But as it stands, saying that I can't read a book unless it's in a library or I purchase it because piracy is as bad as breaking into someone's house is kind of ridiculous. You can't even compare. And I've had my house broken into and my stuff stolen. No comparison at all.

It's nice to be liked, but it's better by far to be paid.
--Liz Phair

thebloodfiend · May 14, 2011

Yeah, it really is just my opinion. I'd rather have readers than money. I realize that everyone doesn't think that way and I am in the minority. But I don't really care.

However, I will say that I tell my friends to shell out their cash. Most of them buy books anyone.

But I will say that someone breaking into your house and stealing from you is not the same as pirating a book and I'd appreciate it if the comparisons stopped.

But really, nothing was said about digital and physical libraries. I understand that they're different, but no money is made their either.

Whatever the case, if you're an obscure author, a reader will help you regardless of how they obtained the book. It's the same principal behind an ARC. Buzz. Reader buzz is better than nothing no matter what.

Downloading copyright books is not really bad compare to other illegal things you can do. Authors still make good money if they write a really good book that people enjoy. 90% of people love buying books and don't like reading on a computer. Look at the Twilight series! I bet you can go online and down it for free everywhere, but lots of people still buy it. The author is very, very rich.!!!!!!

95% of members from this website upload copyright books. You won't be able to get everyone to stop, unless this website is no more!! And if you do, people are just going to upload copyright books some where else.

This is a stupid excuse and it isn't true. But that being said, piracy does not equal stealing and it never will. Name one example of a book, movie, or album suffering because of piracy. You'll see that it actually helps in certain situations. Peer to peer sharing helps independent movies.

I'm done here though. Just wanted to give my two bits, regardless of whether they were wanted or not. And I don't mean to be rude or offensive.

Laura_6 · May 14, 2011

Living in a third world country has made me see things from the other side of the coin.
I agree with what Michael Stearns at Upstart Crow has to say:
http://upstartcrowliterary.com/blog/?p=1765

Sorry if that makes me very unpopular, but if you're writing because you want to make a lot of money, you're probably in the wrong field.

agentpaper · May 14, 2011

What Cyia said. Also, if you're unsure of the book, get it from the library. Libraries are awesome. You get a card and you can borrow as many books as you want. You can even borrow e-books from them now. That way the author has still benefited(because the library has usually bought several copies of the book), you're not doing anything illegal ('cause, you know, you're not stealing something), and you don't have to pay a dime.

thebloodfiend said:
If more people read your book, regardless of how they got it, that equals higher sales.

I call BS on this. It doesn't always equal higher sales. Pirates don't usually pass on what they've read. They read it, then move on. You may, but you're one in a million.

inkspatters · May 14, 2011

thebloodfiend said:
First we have to define piracy. Is borrowing a book from a library(physical or electronic) piracy? No. Can anyone in America do it? Yes.

You can't compare piracy to stealing something physical unless money is being made. If someone likes a book, they'll usually buy it. If not, they'll never read it again.

In terms of author sales, is an author profiting from someone borrowing a book from a library or a friend loaning their copy of a book? If someone bought it, that's one sale. Someone had to buy the ebook, or rather a license to read the ebook that's still one sale. If I buy an ebook for the same price as a hardback book, I think I have the right to share it with anyone I like.

But I can and do compare piracy to stealing something physical. If someone walks into a record store and steals an album, I consider it stealing -- even though they *could* have legally obtained the same product for free by borrowing from that album from a friend. Money doesn't have to be made for something to be considered stealing -- money has to lost (for the people selling the product).

Regarding the buying of an ebook for the same price as a hardcover book, and therefore having the right to share that ebook with everyone, sure. Fine. I agree, you should be able to lend your e-book out to whoever you please, just as you would be able to with a physical product.

The thing is, it doesn't seem like "sharing" of a single product is what's happening on this website. It actually seems like replication is what's really going on. So, one person bought a copy, and then put it on the internet, where it's being downloaded by hundreds of other people. You've gone from having one file of a book, to having a hundred files of a book. From having one owner of a book, to having hundreds of owners.

Imo, there's a clear distinction between sharing a physical copy of a book and distributing a copy online. No matter how many people you lend a physical book of yours to, none of them get to own their own copies. With a digital version, that changes.

And while I think I agree with your perspective that perhaps readership is the most important thing, I don't think that can really be used as a justification for widespread piracy. I think it's up to individual creators to decide whether or not their work is made available in this manner (Cory Doctorow for instance).

Just some thoughts.

Concerned about illegal downloads of YA novels

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