But Is It Historical Fiction?

AdamR85 · May 3, 2011

My current WIP is a pirate novel set in 1680. All the principles are fictional, as is the story. But they stop in to take supply in Port Royal - and in my reading discovered that Henry Morgan, the legendary pirate (privateer) was Lieutenant-Governor at the time. He inserted himself into the story, and the rest of the plot clicked into place. He's only in it for maybe fifteen pages, but they're crucial pages. The Governor of Port Royal is also an historical person, a man named Vaughan. But in the course of the story, I have taken, ah, thorough liberties with his person, making him do things he never actually did. Heartily and enthusiastically, I might add.

The question is, a) am I allowed to do that? And b) is it historical fiction? There's no "pirate" genre that I'm aware of (we've got westerns, but not pirates for some reason). All my research on historical fiction says that it is a dramatization of historical events. The only problem is that none of my events are historical, and the events that do intersect with my historical characters cause them to not be their historical selves any longer.

So, is it kosher to change the events of an historical person's life and it still be historical fiction. And is the book historical fiction in the first place?

Sorry if this isn't the place for this. I'm accustomed to writing fantasy, so my experience is all with entirely fictional stories.

Royal Mercury · May 3, 2011

I suppose that Henry Morgan is the only person who would seriously object. But if he gets mad, watch out.

You won't be the first person to include actual people in fiction. "It Can't Happen Here", by Sinclair Lewis, had some real people as bit characters as I recall.

AdamR85 · May 3, 2011

Royal Mercury said:
I suppose that Henry Morgan is the only person who would seriously object. But if he gets mad, watch out. You won't be the first person to include actual people in fiction. "It Can't Happen Here", by Sinclair Lewis, had some real people as bit characters as I recall.

Thanks for the reply!

So it's not strictly verboten to adjust historical characters like that? So long as the act itself doesn't send up red flags, I'm probably okay with it.

Would the genre be historical fiction, then? Since it seems that the genre includes anything that takes place in a previous historical period?

*keeping his eye out for Morgan*

Puma · May 3, 2011

It isn't really kosher to alter anything that might be known about a historical person or have them act of out of character. If you do something like that, you're entering the realm of alternative history. If you have them do things they might have done, but there's no record, you're on safer ground. What do I mean by that - take the old "Nero fiddled while Rome burned" saying. If you show Nero as a person who was very conscientious about the conditions in Rome and have him worry about the welfare of the state, it isn't true to the character that's been cast for him and enters the realm of alternative history - what if? But if you show him going on a junket to Naples to look at the ruins of Pompei with a retinue of hundreds to wine and dine him - there's no substantiation either way that it did or didn't happen; it could have and it keeps him in character.

Pirate fiction: check to see how Michael Crichton's Pirate Latitude is classified. It's pretty recent and sort of a mix of historical fiction and fantasy. In the old days, books such as Rafael Sabatini's Captain Blood and The Sea Hawk were unquestionably historical fiction. Puma

AdamR85 · May 3, 2011

Puma said:
It isn't really kosher to alter anything that might be known about a historical person or have them act of out of character. If you do something like that, you're entering the realm of alternative history. If you have them do things they might have done, but there's no record, you're on safer ground. What do I mean by that - take the old "Nero fiddled while Rome burned" saying. If you show Nero as a person who was very conscientious about the conditions in Rome and have him worry about the welfare of the state, it isn't true to the character that's been cast for him and enters the realm of alternative history - what if? But if you show him going on a junket to Naples to look at the ruins of Pompei with a retinue of hundreds to wine and dine him - there's no substantiation either way that it did or didn't happen; it could have and it keeps him in character.

Thanks for answering! I think Morgan's character works fine by what you've said. It's the other historical character, Governor Vaughan, who I have invented backstory for that never happened. Of course, not much is known about him, but essentially he's been working with my fictional villain to steal gold from the Crown.

In the end he is summoned back to England, having lost face with Charles II and Morgan is appointed Acting Governor of Port Royal (thus far we are in the realm of what happened historically). I have it planned for him to manage to burn all the evidence that would convict him of working with pirates, and so the records are lost, though he is (as historically known) returned to England a shamed man for his brutal nature and dies penniless and broken.

Puma said:
Pirate fiction: check to see how Michael Crichton's Pirate Latitude is classified. It's pretty recent and sort of a mix of historical fiction and fantasy. In the old days, books such as Rafael Sabatini's Captain Blood and The Sea Hawk were unquestionably historical fiction. Puma

Good Idea! Historical fiction/mystery/thriller. Hmm.

gothicangel · May 4, 2011

Puma said:
It isn't really kosher to alter anything that might be known about a historical person or have them act of out of character.

It has yet to stop Randall Wallace.

Puma · May 4, 2011

Stealing gold from the crown in a colonial outpost is very plausible. It did happen at various times and places. But ...

I'd suggest you also do a little genealogical searching before you make your final decision on Vaughan's character. It's amazing some of the things people working on family histories have been able to find. I'd start with rootsweb worldconnect project and see whether there's anything there. I'd also go through Cyndi's List to see whether there's anything. And, I'd also do a Google search for his name (in quotes) with anything else pertinent that would filter out more recent occurences of the name - governor, a date, location, etc.

Good luck! Puma

DrZoidberg · May 4, 2011

Even if I'm personally obsessed about getting every last detail historically correct I don't think it's required to have the label "historical fiction". All you need IMHO is to have it set in an identifiable historical era and there's no magic or fantastical creatures in it. It may or may not involve historical characters from that era. Taking historical liberties is standard operating procedure.

The only questions you need to ask yourself is; "Does it work? Does it feel right?" If yes, then you're ready to go.

dgaughran · May 4, 2011

You could pitch your novel as "historical adventure", if appropriate.

AdamR85 · May 6, 2011

Thanks so much for the replies, guys! Sorry I vanished there (internet woes).

Did I mention you rock?

I'm no stranger to in-depth research. I was a history major before I switched to English and got my degree and write scholarly "research" essays for fun. I've already devoured most of the major books on piracy, just so I get the "feel" right, and have actually located some "pirate reenactors" (yes, that's right) who actually sail up and down the American east coast in two-masted ships. I'm going to be contacting them to see about getting "aboard" one of their ships the next time they're reasonably close to me, to get the correct "lingo" on how to trim sails and give commands ("come into the wind and give me a broad reach, lads!" . . . wha?).

Puma said:
Stealing gold from the crown in a colonial outpost is very plausible. It did happen at various times and places. But ...

I'd suggest you also do a little genealogical searching before you make your final decision on Vaughan's character. It's amazing some of the things people working on family histories have been able to find. I'd start with rootsweb worldconnect project and see whether there's anything there. I'd also go through Cyndi's List to see whether there's anything. And, I'd also do a Google search for his name (in quotes) with anything else pertinent that would filter out more recent occurences of the name - governor, a date, location, etc.

Good luck! Puma

This is a terrific idea. Thanks for the resources. I'm frankly surprised I can't find more about Henry Morgan. For one of the most famous pirates in history, he's got a single chapter in Under the Black Flag, and there's maybe three biographies.

DrZoidberg said:
Even if I'm personally obsessed about getting every last detail historically correct I don't think it's required to have the label "historical fiction". All you need IMHO is to have it set in an identifiable historical era and there's no magic or fantastical creatures in it. It may or may not involve historical characters from that era. Taking historical liberties is standard operating procedure.

The only questions you need to ask yourself is; "Does it work? Does it feel right?" If yes, then you're ready to go.

Mmm, good thoughts. Would you say a kraken is a fantastical creature? I think it's still technically labeled a cryptozoological animal even though there's growing evidence that giant squids may have gotten close that size? I don't have one in my current outline, but have toyed with including one. My initial thought was that it was too Pirates of the Caribbean, and there was the risk of every pirate book sticking one in (even Pirate Latitudes had one). Then my contrarian streak comes out and tells me I ought to include whatever I want and damn the cannons, full speed ahead. :tongue

dgaughran said:
You could pitch your novel as "historical adventure", if appropriate.

Now that could work well. Thanks!

DrZoidberg · May 8, 2011

AdamR85 said:
Mmm, good thoughts. Would you say a kraken is a fantastical creature? I think it's still technically labeled a cryptozoological animal even though there's growing evidence that giant squids may have gotten close that size? I don't have one in my current outline, but have toyed with including one. My initial thought was that it was too Pirates of the Caribbean, and there was the risk of every pirate book sticking one in (even Pirate Latitudes had one). Then my contrarian streak comes out and tells me I ought to include whatever I want and damn the cannons, full speed ahead.

Maybe. It depends on how it's portrayed. I'd discourage against it. The kind of people open to the idea of fantastical creatures will want it hinted in how the book is marketed. Because that's the kind of books they're looking for. People who read historical fiction want to be immersed in an ancient time as it might have really happened. Maybe they're hoping to learn something about the time. As soon as a Kraken pops up you risk that every historical detail will be cast into doubt and in their minds it's now a fantasy. You risk alienating your reader. But it's all in how you use the fantastical elements. People historically really did fear and believe in sea monsters.

"Pirates of the Caribbean" was marketed as shallow action adventure only using the most superficial features of Carribean pirate life. They got away with it because they were very upfront about what they were doing. Nobody sitting down to watch that will at any time think it's a historical drama. Compare it to Roman Polanski's "Pirates". That film was marketed as historical fiction and does a great job of it. The films are in many ways similar but have very different feels.

Puma · May 8, 2011

Yep, kraken is an immediate turn-off for me. However, I think if there was a vague reference to sea monsters (You want me to check the hull below the water line? What if there's a sea monster down there?) it wouldn't bother me at all. It's a general concept rather than the specificity of the word kracken (and there were different types of sea monsters reported) Check into some of the reports from the Sargasso Sea.

And, back in the day of (excuse me for saying this) real pirate fiction like that written by Sabatini, I don't think there was ever a reference to a kracken and certainly no fantastical elements. Hope that helps. Puma

LaneHeymont · May 17, 2011

AdamR85 said:
My current WIP is a pirate novel set in 1680. All the principles are fictional, as is the story. But they stop in to take supply in Port Royal - and in my reading discovered that Henry Morgan, the legendary pirate (privateer) was Lieutenant-Governor at the time. He inserted himself into the story, and the rest of the plot clicked into place. He's only in it for maybe fifteen pages, but they're crucial pages. The Governor of Port Royal is also an historical person, a man named Vaughan. But in the course of the story, I have taken, ah, thorough liberties with his person, making him do things he never actually did. Heartily and enthusiastically, I might add.

The question is, a) am I allowed to do that? And b) is it historical fiction? There's no "pirate" genre that I'm aware of (we've got westerns, but not pirates for some reason). All my research on historical fiction says that it is a dramatization of historical events. The only problem is that none of my events are historical, and the events that do intersect with my historical characters cause them to not be their historical selves any longer.

So, is it kosher to change the events of an historical person's life and it still be historical fiction. And is the book historical fiction in the first place?

Sorry if this isn't the place for this. I'm accustomed to writing fantasy, so my experience is all with entirely fictional stories.

I just finished writing a Historical Fantasy, and if everything is fictional even actual historical people...then it's fiction...that's the definition of fiction Lol

Elenitsa · Sep 26, 2011

It might be historical fiction or historical fantasy, depending on the amount of fantasy part. But both are compelling to read, says a fellow pirate lover!

KentWatson · Sep 27, 2011

Nero a bad guy....

I think, particularly in the case of the Romans, that history was often written with an agenda. The common stories that are told about the decadent emperors have to be taken with some reservation. The "history" that is written is often propaganda by a political representative that has an act to grind.

For example, there is some evidence that Nero wasn't just blaming the Christians for their revolutionary activities, he was holding them accountable. The Book of Revelations is about overthrowing the Beast (Nero) in a final battle. Not all Christians were turning the other cheek, as we know from the Crusades.

It's also debatable, by turning to different source material, whether Nero was anywhere near Rome when it burned. Some report he rushed back to lead the effort to stop the fire's destruction. It was recorded, by some parties, that he opened up the emperor's private gardens to the mobs of dislodged Romans, so they would be safe from the spreading fire.

The more research you do about the historical era that you are interested in writing about, the more possibilities of exploring character development and events seem to open up.

My rule is: don't believe everything you read, especially history!! Good historical fiction should make the reader rethink the history they think they know and re-examine the world around them more critically.

Puma said:
What do I mean by that - take the old "Nero fiddled while Rome burned" saying. If you show Nero as a person who was very conscientious about the conditions in Rome and have him worry about the welfare of the state, it isn't true to the character that's been cast for him and enters the realm of alternative history - what if?

Dave Hardy · Sep 27, 2011

I tend to think of alternate history as a story where the course of history is altered. The classic what if story. What if Lee won at Gettysburg? What if Napoleon kept the Louisiana Territory? What if Christianity never became the religion of Rome?

I guess you might say there's a category of "secret history." A fictional "inside story" about the stuff that didn't make the history books. EG: How Richard the III was a swell guy (that was Blackadder season 1 iirc), how Florence Nightingale was actually like Nurse Ratchett, the untold tale of how Emily Dickenson spent a winter frozen in with Liver-eatin' Johnson (Winter on the Belle Fourche, by Neal Barrett Jr., it's a scream).

And then there's the stuff that's just fudged a bit for narrative purposes. There are certain things that are fair game, though obviously glaring errors or propagandistic alterations of truth are going to bother at least some readers.

It's all good, I daresay. It all depends on the effect you are going for.

gothicangel · Sep 28, 2011

KentWatson said:
I think, particularly in the case of the Romans, that history was often written with an agenda. The common stories that are told about the decadent emperors have to be taken with some reservation. The "history" that is written is often propaganda by a political representative that has an act to grind.

This is the reason I dislike Manda Scott, she seems to have a pretty big axe to grind.

But Is It Historical Fiction?

AdamR85

Royal Mercury

I think I am, therefore....

AdamR85

Puma

Retired and loving it!

AdamR85

gothicangel

Toughen up.

Puma

Retired and loving it!

DrZoidberg

aka TomOfSweden

dgaughran

AdamR85

DrZoidberg

aka TomOfSweden

Puma

Retired and loving it!

LaneHeymont

Not so secret agent

Elenitsa

writing as Marina Costa

KentWatson

Dave Hardy

Don't let your deal go down,

gothicangel

Toughen up.