Another ex PA author here, finally ready to move on.

[TerraAnn]

Hello everyone! I joined a very long time ago. This site was recommended by a fellow ex PA author. I was told this place would help. I joined, but didn't really get around to posting. I think I just needed a mourning period. I was smart enough to get 3 books published with PA. (Sarcasm). I look back and think, "What the heck were you thinking?!" But what's done is done. I've accepted that those books are dead to me. While I do have a few fans from the books who've contacted me via my website, I still feel those books were a waste. So many errors are in them. It's painful for me to look back at them. Still, they were a part of me. So I needed time to mourn them. But now I have, and I'm ready to move on. I actually just finished the rough copy of a new book. It's like nothing I've ever written before and while it's definately not without flaws (many, many of them) I feel it's my best work. I'm at the point now where I'm ready to begin the searching process. If anyone has any advice, I'd really appreciate it. And if not, that's ok too. I just wanted to reacquaint myself with everyone. I've already sent my rough copy of my book to one of my fans to get her opinion and she sent me back an unbiased and tough critique. It's helped alot and I've already edited the book some. I plan to keep sending it to people who have offered (old english teachers and such) to get the critiques I need to make this book as best as it can be before I even try to send it to an agent or publisher. I figure I should find an agent, but I have no idea where to start looking. I've been browsing around online for publishers, but they all seem to say the same thing about how they only accept manuscripts from agents. So now I just need to find an agent. I feel like a fish out of water, but I'm willing to fight tooth and nail to get this book a legitimate and good publisher. Anyways, enough of my rambling. I just wanted to say hi again to everyone. I look forward to posting more here. :)

[gladspooky]

I would go straight to the Query Shark blog and read all her posts (it's never too early to start working on a query), and then begin researching agents in the Bewares and Background Check forum (there is a thread that lists them all).

Also, you've written four freaking books. It doesn't matter to me where they've been published. I'm looking at mine right now and I'm thinking "Shit! This is my first one and I've got this competition creeping up on my heels? Everything I've written is garbage."

I hope you find the perfect agent, and I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than I will come along and offer better advice, so good luck.

[PVish]

Welcome, TerraAnn! Going to writers conferences is a good way to meet agents and publishing professionals. Another good place to start reading is Chuck Sambuchino's blog: http://guidetoliteraryagents.com/blog. He often interviews agents who give good advice and tell what they're looking for. You might also start reading various agents' blogs to get a feel for what they want. Not all agents represent all genres.

[Jersey Chick]

Hi Terra! :welcome:

There's a Share Your Work section here - once you have 50 posts, you can post some of your work there for critique. There's also a Query Letter Hell section where you can post your query for critique as well.

Don't be afraid to ask a question (although I would recommend doing a thread search, just to make sure it hasn't already been asked to death) and take a look through the stickies as well. A ton of info to be found. And when all else fails, someone around here will probably have the answer/info you're looking for.

Those other books aren't a waste - they were part of a learning experience (be it good or bad.)

**hops down off soapbox**

:D

[Jennifer Robins]

I was fortunate enough to get my two books released from PA a few years ago but they also looked unfit to send out to anyone else, so I moved on with other work. I'm now published with small but good publishers and happy. I keep writing and submitting. I don't let rejects bother me, it's part of being a writer. I've tried getting an agent but no success there so I move along submitting to publishers with some success. I like checking here on AW. Great info here. Good luck to you.

[TerraAnn]

Oh thanks so much everyone! You're so nice! I already feel welcome and comfortable here. You've already been helpful. I've spent the last twenty minutes browsing around this board and have found some incredibly helpful threads. There is so much to learn and a great deal of it is here thanks to all the wonderful people who keep this board going. I am very glad I finally decided to come back to this board. I know it's a decision I won't regret. And thank you for all of your suggestions! I am definately going to follow them all. And once I have enough posts, and if I'm brave enough, I'll definately consider posting some of my work to be critiqued as well as a query letter. Thanks again to you guys! I'm lucky to have refound this board. :hooray::)

[Jessianodel]

Welcome to AW Terra!

Want a cookie bear? I have chocolate chip...

:e2bear: :e2bear: :e2bear:

The forums are awesome and really helpful with newbie questions (trust me, I know :D) so feel free to ask anything!

[Gillhoughly]

Welcome! :welcome:

How to find a real publisher?

First--use AW to workshop your book. Check out the forum for Betareader volunteers!

Next--read this blog:

http://accrispin.blogspot.com/2007/05/victoria-strauss-learning-ropes.html

Next--find a publisher in a bookstore. Look for books like yours, see who published them, then look up their guidelines and follow them to the letter.

You find an agent the same way. Look up writers with similar books, ask if they can recommend a good agent in your genre.

But don't look online. 99% of the results will be scammers and pay to play vanity sites.

Go to this site, even if you don't write S/F. It has solid business info that applies to all genres:

http://www.sfwa.org/category/business-of-writing/

http://www.sfwa.org/category/craft-of-writing/

And give it a bit of time, then tell PA you want your contracts terminated, cite lack of sales as your reason. They'll get back to you with a "pay us and we'll revert the rights" but tell them you don't have the money, nor are they making money on your work.

Pester them, ignore ALL their efforts to get money from you. Send the same boring "I'm not buying or promoting these titles, just revert the rights and I'll go away" tune, and they might cut you loose just to shut you up! :)

Don't get mad or in any debate with them. Be boring and stick to business. You could get lucky and cut free! Make sure it's in writing for all of them.

Check the topic out here on AW for pointers!

Good luck!

[Chris P]

Welcome! I'm a PA author as well, and I love this place.

[xXFireSpiritXx]

You always know I am willing to be a beta reader and help out hun!

[merrihiatt]

Welcome, Terra Ann! Folks have given you great advice already. So glad you kept on writing, despite your experience with PA. I know it isn't easy learning about PA's business model and discovering that the books you wrote are essentially invisible to the average person on the street. I wish you good look with this and future books and am glad you found AW.

[Queen of Swords]

Hi Terra, great to see you here. :)

What's your book's genre and word count?

[Writer'sNotes]

Hello, TerraAnn:

Just wanted to post to say that since I've been looking for an agent, none has held PA against me (not that it was seen as a credit, either). They simply considered the manuscript before them and judged me on the basis of my writing. I wish you luck in your quest!

[TerraAnn]

Thanks so much, everyone! You guys are so welcoming and awesome. I already am wondering how I survived without this place, lol. There are some threads I've found already that are lifesavers. And all of your tips are super helpful. I've saved the link to this board to the top of my screen so whenever I am writing and in need of advice or of a helfpul thread, I can come here and find one :)


You always know I am willing to be a beta reader and help out hun!

Thank you! I'm lucky to have a pal like you :) Will definately keep you in mind and shoot you a message when I have finished it. It's already finished, but I'm fattening it up right now, hehe


Hi Terra, great to see you here. :)

What's your book's genre and word count?

It's Sci-Fi and kind of subtly/not so subtly is attacking politics. There's also a little romance, but the book is mostly focussed on the plot. And right now it's a little over 50,000 words and the rough copy is finished, but I'm still in the process of fattening it out a little, lol

[AlexPiper]

Congrats on cutting loose, and welcome to the Water Cooler! We generally don't bite (unless it's lunchtime). :)

(Also, I feel like given the way PA turns normal book terms PA-specific -- PAperback, Zoftcover and so on -- there should be a properly PA-specific term for those who've escaped its clutches. ExPAtriot?)

[TerraAnn]

Congrats on cutting loose, and welcome to the Water Cooler! We generally don't bite (unless it's lunchtime). :)

(Also, I feel like given the way PA turns normal book terms PA-specific -- PAperback, Zoftcover and so on -- there should be a properly PA-specific term for those who've escaped its clutches. ExPAtriot?)

Thanks! And I like it. I shall thus forward be referred to as ExPAtriot, Terra Ann, hehe :)

[Queen of Swords]

And right now it's a little over 50,000 words and the rough copy is finished, but I'm still in the process of fattening it out a little, lol

Yeah, 50K would make me think of MG or short YA. :) I have the opposite issue - my first drafts always turn out very long and have to be slimmed down.

The genre sounds cool. Best of luck!

[Cyia]

It's Sci-Fi and kind of subtly/not so subtly is attacking politics.


YAY! Someone who understands the actual reason for sci-fi's existence. Good luck with it, Terra. I actually remember your PA book, I think (Moonstone?). It had one of the better covers. The writing was above par, so you should been able to make a real go of it with commercial writing.

[Queen of Swords]

I actually remember your PA book, I think (Moonstone?). It had one of the better covers.

Agreed. And I never found it repeated on any other books. Isla's Redemption had a pretty good cover too.

[TerraAnn]

Yeah, 50K would make me think of MG or short YA. :) I have the opposite issue - my first drafts always turn out very long and have to be slimmed down.

The genre sounds cool. Best of luck!

Thanks! And yeah, it's a baby, haha. I got it up to a little over 55,000 words now and I'm comfortable with it, but I'm hoping to stretch it a little more still. But at the same time, I don't want to fill space just to fill space. It's hard because for YA it fits the length ok, but for Sci-Fi it comes up short. But I feel like I've said everything I needed to say and I'm happy with it. So we shall see. Maybe I'll think up some more ideas before I start to send it to beta readers and prepare to submit to agents and publishers. But anyways, thanks for the good luck wishes! :)

YAY! Someone who understands the actual reason for sci-fi's existence. Good luck with it, Terra. I actually remember your PA book, I think (Moonstone?). It had one of the better covers. The writing was above par, so you should been able to make a real go of it with commercial writing.

Oh you're so nice! When one of my PA books is mentioned, it's always hard for me to not automatically cringe because of all the awful errors and such. But there have been people who told me they still did enjoy the writing. So that makes me happy. And the fact that someone here on this board, full of amazing and talented people, enjoyed the writing is a huge compliment. Thank you!

Agreed. And I never found it repeated on any other books. Isla's Redemption had a pretty good cover too.

Thanks! Yeah, the covers were wonderful. Moonstone was my favorite cover. Isla's Redemption was exciting because it was the first. By Neveah's Redemption I wasn't even excited anymore though, because as everyone knows, PA had stomped all over me by then. And I felt the cover was all wrong. But yeah...they definately do good covers. If only they actually did a good job with their publishing too.

[stormie]

You have a good attitude. Glad you're here :)

Welcome!

[Queen of Swords]

But at the same time, I don't want to fill space just to fill space. It's hard because for YA it fits the length ok, but for Sci-Fi it comes up short.

You could try submitting it when you're satisfied. If an agent loves it but thinks it's a bit short, they might ask you to flesh it out a little more. Then you'll know what's great and what can be improved. :)

Thanks! Yeah, the covers were wonderful. Moonstone was my favorite cover. Isla's Redemption was exciting because it was the first. By Neveah's Redemption I wasn't even excited anymore though, because as everyone knows, PA had stomped all over me by then. And I felt the cover was all wrong.

I think the cover of Neveah's Redemption might have been better if it had been done in the same style as the previous book, to show series continuity. Just my take on it, though.

But yeah...they definately do good covers. If only they actually did a good job with their publishing too.

Actually... their cover art department often recycles the stock images used in covers, meaning up to a dozen books might end up with the same cover art. Here's an example (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4655664&postcount=300). That's one reason I was impressed with your covers - I never saw them duplicated anywhere.

You're one of the lucky authors that way. I know another author who was banned from the message board after she asked why her cover art was reused for another book.

[TerraAnn]

You have a good attitude. Glad you're here :)

Welcome!

Aw, thanks! So happy to be here! :)


You could try submitting it when you're satisfied. If an agent loves it but thinks it's a bit short, they might ask you to flesh it out a little more. Then you'll know what's great and what can be improved. :)
I think the cover of Neveah's Redemption might have been better if it had been done in the same style as the previous book, to show series continuity. Just my take on it, though.
Actually... their cover art department often recycles the stock images used in covers, meaning up to a dozen books might end up with the same cover art. Here's an example (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4655664&postcount=300). That's one reason I was impressed with your covers - I never saw them duplicated anywhere.
You're one of the lucky authors that way. I know another author who was banned from the message board after she asked why her cover art was reused for another book.

That's true too. I've been researching publishers that would fit with me and the three ones I keep going back to are Tor, Delray, and Penguin. Penguin and Delray don't take unsolicited books, but Tor does if you mail it out. My best bet is finding an agent though because then my book would have a better chance of getting looked at. But it's so hard to do. Which I don't need to tell anyone here. I'm sure everyone knows, lol. I just didn't realize how exhausting it can be. But it's worth it. It's weird...while I wish it would be easier, the fact that I have to put so much work in makes me happy and feel like it'll mean that much more to me if I am able to land a good publisher in the end. I've been researching agents, but they're harder to find than the publishers. I'm hoping that I can eventually find one though. And then once I do, they can tell me if I need to stretch out the book or not.

And yeah, I agree about Neveah's cover. Plus, they put a random black neck thing around her neck and it just didn't fit with her character for me. And oh yikes! Thanks for that link. I knew they repeated covers, but that's crazy how many they have done! I suppose I should be glad that they didn't replicate mine, but I figure it's only a matter of time before they do. And yeah...PA is ridiculous about that. You say anything that could be remotely bad about them and they delete your post. If you even question something they've done they do it. I don't miss being a part of that board at all, lol

[Queen of Swords]

That's true too. I've been researching publishers that would fit with me and the three ones I keep going back to are Tor, Delray, and Penguin.

Just off the top of my head, what about Roc, Bantam Spectra, Daw and Baen? Though most of those probably don't take unagented manuscripts.

There might also be reputable small presses. I know Angry Robot had an open submissions month in March (I sent a copy of my manuscript in on March 31).

My best bet is finding an agent though because then my book would have a better chance of getting looked at. But it's so hard to do.

Too true. I'm querying agents for the same reason, and as you said, it's a tiring process (though getting a request for a partial or a full is a great feeling). So I tried a good small press for my romantic fantasies, though I'd like my straight fantasies to go to a major house.

And oh yikes! Thanks for that link. I knew they repeated covers, but that's crazy how many they have done!

That's one reason I started collecting all the covers in one place. I figured no one would believe it unless they saw all the duplicate covers side-by-side. :eek:

[TerraAnn]

Just off the top of my head, what about Roc, Bantam Spectra, Daw and Baen? Though most of those probably don't take unagented manuscripts.

There might also be reputable small presses. I know Angry Robot had an open submissions month in March (I sent a copy of my manuscript in on March 31).



Too true. I'm querying agents for the same reason, and as you said, it's a tiring process (though getting a request for a partial or a full is a great feeling). So I tried a good small press for my romantic fantasies, though I'd like my straight fantasies to go to a major house.


Thanks for the suggestions! I will definately be checking them out. And oh gosh....tiring is exactly it! I spent the last two days in a row, searching for hours and hours through agent after agent. I went through at least 30 and found 3 that I felt would be good fits with me. One that I feel would be perfect. I submitted to two of them last night and am looking forward to a response either way. This is scary cause this is my first time submitting to agents. I'm of course trying to be hopeful, I do believe in my work, but I also am ready for being rejected. Rejection is a big part of being a writer and there is nothing wrong with it. A lot of the best writers out there went through their fair share of rejections. So I'm trying to look at it positive either way. If I get back a no, then at least I put myself out there and had my first lesson in having thick skin. If I get a yes...well...I'll probably bawl my eyes out, haha. But either way, I'm going to be positive....I hope! haha

[Queen of Swords]

I'm of course trying to be hopeful, I do believe in my work, but I also am ready for being rejected. Rejection is a big part of being a writer and there is nothing wrong with it.

Great attitude! And yeah, it can take a lot of time and effort to get requests/acceptances. For one of my manuscripts, I sent out over seventy query letters to get two partial and two full requests (though a few of the seventy were duplicates, e.g. agent didn't reply so I resent the query and got a request).

I'm sure you'll stay positive through this and reach the top of the ladder one day. :)