ChiZine - Acknowledgements

Status
Not open for further replies.

Lillie

practical experience, FTW
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
1,585
Reaction score
178
Location
Wales
I sent something to Chizine last week.
I have not received an acknowledgement. Should I have had one?

Their submission page does not mention it. http://www3.chizine.com/submissions_fiction.htm
But Duotrope seems to say that they send one in about a day or two.

My natural inclination would be to do nothing and if I haven't heard from them in three months or so then they didn't get it.

Any advice?
 

Lillie

practical experience, FTW
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
1,585
Reaction score
178
Location
Wales
Yes. I've just checked. It complied with the guidelines. It was even an .odt which they say they prefer.

*shrug* Just one of them things, I suppose.
 

alexshvartsman

Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
2,049
Reaction score
156
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Lillie,

Both times I've submitted to them, I received an e-mail acknowledgment within 24 hours. I'd go ahead and query - if they minded that, they wouldn't bother to send out confirmations in the first place.
 

Lillie

practical experience, FTW
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
1,585
Reaction score
178
Location
Wales
Thanks.

I'll see if I can write something that sounds polite and proper.
 

Lillie

practical experience, FTW
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
1,585
Reaction score
178
Location
Wales
Thank you.

I'll wait a bit longer then.
 

GreenRoom

brain in a vat
VPXVI
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
219
Reaction score
30
Location
California
Lillie, a friend just received an acknowledgment after a week. They seem to be behind. I would wait.

I just got an acknowledgement yesterday after 12 days, so I'd second the waiting idea.
 

Lillie

practical experience, FTW
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
1,585
Reaction score
178
Location
Wales
Thanks, GreenRoom.

I'll definitely wait. See what happens.
I expect I'll hear from them in the end.
 

Lillie

practical experience, FTW
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
1,585
Reaction score
178
Location
Wales
Thank you. This subbing business is all very exciting. :D
 

Lillie

practical experience, FTW
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
1,585
Reaction score
178
Location
Wales
Lol, well, a little bit terrifying, but in a good way!

And in the end the worst that can happen is that they don't want my stories.
I've had worse knock backs than that in my life, so I'm sure I'll survive it.

Good luck to you too :)
 

Lillie

practical experience, FTW
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
1,585
Reaction score
178
Location
Wales
I got the acknowledgement today, without nudging them. 13 days.

They must just have been swamped with stuff.
 

Chris_Wilkins

Learning all about this place
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 14, 2011
Messages
76
Reaction score
0
Location
Switzerland
Website
www.sorcerytales.com
Can someone explain something to me?

I'd never heard of Chizine until I read about it here. So I went and checked it out.

And I don't understand how they stay at it. They pay 7c a word, and everyone gets total access to everything for free. The busier they get the quicker they'll go out of business.

I say this being a journalist. I, like many other people, have seen this genius idea destroy many local newspapers right across the USA and UK, and some not-so-small, such as the Chicago Tribune and the San Francisco Chronicle (I think I have these names correct).

So great if you can get them to buy a story from you, though keep in mind the rate is a fraction freelance joursalists used to get paid (now they get paid nuffin), but I just don't understand. :Shrug:
 
Last edited:

Nathaniel Katz

The Evil Hat
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
414
Reaction score
50
They're not the only ones. Beneath Ceaseless Skies does the same for 5 cents a word, Strange Horizons for 7, and Daily Science Fiction for 8. It seems to be quite a popular business model for e zines. No, I don't understand it either.
 

Gray Rose

Beware of the Thorns!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
1,741
Reaction score
647
Location
in the hands of the night
Website
roselemberg.net
They're not the only ones. Beneath Ceaseless Skies does the same for 5 cents a word, Strange Horizons for 7, and Daily Science Fiction for 8. It seems to be quite a popular business model for e zines. No, I don't understand it either.

Those are different models. Chizine is owned by a publisher. The magazine is, in a way, a promotional tool for the press. Clarkesworld/Fantasy/Lightspeed (Prime Books) and Apex Magazine (Apex Publications) operate in the same way. I would say the Prime model is the most successful, because Prime has many titles that sell rather well (including anthologies). Clarkesworld sells anthologies and ebooks too.

Strange Horizons is a community-funded operation. They have a fundraiser once a year. It works for them, because they deliver what people want to read, so the community ponies up. They even managed to raise the pay this year. SH has been around since 2000, and is here to stay.

BCS - I have no idea how they survive, but they have an ebook anthology that sells, and also accept donations, although I know their donations are not massive. I would assume independent means.

How DSF operates is a mystery to everyone, and a constant source of worry to submitters. I would assume independent means.

Chris_Wilkins, if I were you, I would not hurry to assume that these pro market owners don't know what they're doing. Some do, some don't, like with any kind of business. Some of these pros are here to stay; others will disappear and be replaced by a new crop. Unlike newspapers, genre mags are a labor of love, and people would put their well-earned money into them without expecting to earn anything.
 

Chris_Wilkins

Learning all about this place
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 14, 2011
Messages
76
Reaction score
0
Location
Switzerland
Website
www.sorcerytales.com
I would not hurry to assume that these pro market owners don't know what they're doing. Some do, some don't, like with any kind of business. Some of these pros are here to stay; others will disappear and be replaced by a new crop. Unlike newspapers, genre mags are a labor of love, and people would put their well-earned money into them without expecting to earn anything.

Ehh, I'm not assuming they don't know what they are doing. I just want to understand the logic behind what they are doing. Plus it might be flawed for all of their bravado.

And actually your explanation that they are more marketing activities makes the most sense.

However, I would be prepared to take a bet that in the next five years or so just about all the ezines working with this model will have disappeared. Not because I am prescient but because it has all happened before.

If you cast your mind back only a few years there were literally millions of blogs with the same concept. And yet now there are many, many abandoned blogs where the last post, usually at least two years old, says something like "I have stopped writing this because I needed to pay the rent" or "I couldn't be bothered doing this anymore".

If the ezines are working in the same way they will end up like this too, no matter how much they may wish it otherwise.

But, hey. I've been proven wrong before. Hard to imagine, I know. :tongue
 

Gray Rose

Beware of the Thorns!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
1,741
Reaction score
647
Location
in the hands of the night
Website
roselemberg.net
However, I would be prepared to take a bet that in the next five years or so just about all the ezines working with this model will have disappeared. Not because I am prescient but because it has all happened before.

You know, I was just about to argue with you, but I will desist.

Take care, and good luck.

ETA, for what it's worth I've been around, and know/have spoken to most of the editors and/or press owners you're talking about, and sold to a few. I think I can make pretty accurate predictions about who will stay and who will go by 2016, but as I said, I think I will desist.
 

Chris_Wilkins

Learning all about this place
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 14, 2011
Messages
76
Reaction score
0
Location
Switzerland
Website
www.sorcerytales.com
You know, I was just about to argue with you, but I will desist.

Take care, and good luck.

ETA, for what it's worth I've been around, and know/have spoken to most of the editors and/or press owners you're talking about, and sold to a few. I think I can make pretty accurate predictions about who will stay and who will go by 2016, but as I said, I think I will desist.

Hey, honestly, please don't. I'm quite happy to be proven wrong. And I'm not even saying I'm right. Instead of a dogmatic opinion, more a subtle feeling.

A bit like saying "it's going to rain tomorrow", but then in doesn't.
 

Gray Rose

Beware of the Thorns!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
1,741
Reaction score
647
Location
in the hands of the night
Website
roselemberg.net
Hey, honestly, please don't. I'm quite happy to be proven wrong. And I'm not even saying I'm right. Instead of a dogmatic opinion, more a subtle feeling.

A bit like saying "it's going to rain tomorrow", but then in doesn't.

Actually no, it's a bit different, because what you're saying is "I bet they will be defunct because it all happened before", but the example you bring is irrelevant to online fiction publishing. I have an editorial mindset and am routinely doing a LOT of research about markets. Other AWers can probably tell you that I do know my markets. I regularly give advice about these markets, here on AW. I've been in the field for 3.5 years, which is not a lot, so do take my words with grains of salt; but I am also an editor of an online poetry publication, and fwiw, have been approached by a pretty reputable press with all kinds of fiction-editing proposals, which I cannot pursue at the moment. I might in the future.
So while I haven't been around as long as some here, I probably know more about these particular markets than your average AWer.

Here's a one-liner you can take away from this: online markets are here to stay. Not all of them will survive long-term, but new ones will crop up to replace hem.

Four years ago, Chizine existed, Apex did not, two Prime online markets existed. BCS and DSF did not exist.

I do not understand the model of BCS, but I suspect private funds. Over the years, enough people talked to me about starting a pro venue that I know that this is a dream for many geeks with independent means, and enough geeks have independent means these days. It says nothing about the magazines' long-term survivability.

I cannot tell you what will happen with BCS and DSF, both of which appear, to my eye, to be privately-funded. I say that BCS has gained quite a reputation, pays only 5c a word, stories won awards and the magazine has a solid following. Many of those stories are commercially viable (authors went on to place books, or have already placed books with top SFF presses). My prediction re:BCS is that if they keep up putting out anthologies, and stay creative, they will survive long term. I would not bet money on it, though.

DSF - I have no idea. Nobody does. I would not bet money on DSF, not even a dollar, surviving long-term; but I am open to surprises.

Now, let's look at Prime. Clarkesworld started in 2006, so it already survived your five years benchmark. It is an award-winning magazine that has been steadily expanding. They sell anthologies and ebooks of the titles that are profitable. They pay 10c a word, and started out accepting stories up to 4000 words. They now consider stories of up to 7k, if I am not mistaken. Fantasy Magazine, also run by Prime, started out as a print semi-pro magazine in 2005. It is six years old. They transitioned to pro payment in 2008. They also launched Lightspeed (another pro-paying venue), and are in the process of transitioning Jabberwocky (a semi-pro print mag) to online this year. This is not because Wallace wants to throw his money away, but because it works for him as a business model. They make money from ebooks, anthologies, novel sales - often discovering new authors through short fiction. Many of their anthologists and novelists have started as short fiction writers published in various Prime publications. It also helps them diversify and keep the press name out there. FYI, ebooks of stories available for free sell extremely well.

I don't know what will happen with Prime. It may fold in 5 years, but it is a robust operation (not without problems), to be sure.

Strange Horizons, as I said above, is a community-funded operation that is 11 years old. As long as they stay true to their mission, we will be supporting them. There'd been some noise lately about the reviews. They listened to the rabble and are making corrections. SH will survive because it is crucial to us, and we not only read what they publish, but also earn salaries. I would bet good money that SH will still be around in 5 years.

As for the others. Apex sells ebooks of issues, and is a press, but I am doubtful about its long-term survivability. I have no connection to Chizine, so I cannot talk about them. They also had been around for years. They are now asking for donations.

As you can see, the models are quite different - and so are the outcomes.

Your original premise, that these online venues will somehow disappear, is faulty because a few of these magazines are quite venerable, as SFF venues go. They had been surviving, and some even thriving. As I said, most short fiction magazines are a labor of love - and thus you cannot compare these venues to the newspaper model.

Your comparison to "blogs" also does not work, but I think I typed enough for one day.

FWIW, print genre magazines had been threatened even more than online magazines. One needs only to look at the sad, sad story of RoF. Subscriptions had been declining for the big three as well, although ebook Kindle sales are soaring for Asimov's. Ultimately, imho, it is ebook sales that will keep both print and online magazines afloat.
 

Chris_Wilkins

Learning all about this place
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 14, 2011
Messages
76
Reaction score
0
Location
Switzerland
Website
www.sorcerytales.com
Actually no, it's a bit different, because what you're saying is "I bet they will be defunct because it all happened before", but the example you bring is irrelevant to online fiction publishing.

Ehh, I think you are assuming a bit too much here.

I didn't say that online or eletronic publishing didn't or won't work. Far from it. For those publications you mentioned if they take a body of work, and then sell it to readers thus creating revenue, more power to them.

I am more talking about those sites that pay for content but have a business plan of turning that work into a source of revenue that is more like a hail-mary. That is, they give it away for free but say "we'll figure it out one day." They will disappear.
 

alexshvartsman

Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
2,049
Reaction score
156
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Chris,

I am a relative newcomer to SF/F fiction markets, but I know quite a bit about publishing (specifically for non-fiction/hobbyist game related sites and magazines), having worked as a columnist, editor, and even editor-in-chief once for a magazine that was sold in Borders, B&N, 7/11 and a number of other US venues nationwide.

I can tell you that Rose's post is spot on.

Markets like Apex, BCS, ChiZine etc. will stick around because they know what they are doing. Sure, there are exceptions to the rule, but you aren't going to see an armageddon of free online fiction markets in the next few years. If anything, you will likely see a lot more high quality markets pop up and replace the demand served by the shrinking paper magazine sector.

Even at .05-0.10 a word, their overhead is incredibly low and it's easy for good 'zines to break even, via means Rose discussed in her post. You will, however, see a ton of free and token pay markets come and go. Many of them are operated by passionate but not business-savvy folks, who can run out of funds, burn out, or otherwise lose interest. Again, there are exceptions to this - some of the token pay markets are excellent, like Every Day Fiction. I fully expect EDF to be around in 2016. Others will go, and will be replaced by even more markets. Dozens of new ones pop up on Duotrope every month.

No matter how you look at it, the model of providing quality speculative fiction to readers online free of charge isn't going away anytime soon.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.