Past language

seun · Mar 13, 2011

(This has probably come up before but after a search, I haven't found anything. Cry your pardon if it has and I'm just missing it).

I've got two scenes planned for my next book. Both require a fair bit of research into the respective time periods, which isn't a problem. What I'm wondering is how other writers handle language in the past. Obviously if you go back far enough, the language we use wouldn't make much sense to someone of that time but I don't want to write the dialogue in a way that goes over the top and detracts from the story. On the other hand, I also don't want to have an England of the thirteenth and sixteenth centuries full of people who speak exactly the same as we do.

How do you handle this in your writing? Avoiding anything that's contemporary while writing in what could be called modern English* feels like the best plan to me but I'd like to know how others do it.

*ETA: I recently read a book by Michael Jecks set in the fourteenth century and this is close to how he wrote.

Bill Ward · Mar 13, 2011

Like you say, avoiding the contemporary (both references and idioms) is probably the main thing. I'd let period vocabulary do some of the heavy lifting for you, while generally sticking to modern syntax.

Of course, it's a whole 'nother issue if you are having modern people speak with medieval or renaissance people. Then I'd think you'd need to bust out some authentic sounding Middle English and Shakespearean-era English and then shift things toward your 'compromise' English once it's clear the characters have 'gotten the gist' of what each other are saying.

thothguard51 · Mar 13, 2011

Who ever is narrating the story sets the language style in the readers mind...

seun · Mar 13, 2011

Bill Ward said:
I'd let period vocabulary do some of the heavy lifting for you, while generally sticking to modern syntax.

Of course, it's a whole 'nother issue if you are having modern people speak with medieval or renaissance people.

I will be in one scene, not the other. I did wonder about having the two groups speak in what would be normal to them, but the others hear it in their own style although that feels like a bit of a cheat.

thothguard51 said:
Who ever is narrating the story sets the language style in the readers mind...

Interesting idea. The scenes will be from the POV of a contemporary character.

thothguard51 · Mar 13, 2011

seun said:
The scenes will be from the POV of a contemporary character.

It should be no different than if your MC is from NYC and he's down in New Orleans speaking with someone who speaks Cajun.

More than likely the MC is going to understand the guy, but may not get the terminology of what certain words refer too. You have that in all cultures and even with different dialects in the same cultures. So it will be up to you to show the reader how the MC reacts.

Once you establish this is how that non MC speaks, then you don't have to keep up the pretext of the others speaking this way, though adding a few Cajun slang references every now and then would refresh the readers that is how he speaks.

Lots of different ways to go, but as I said, it will really depend on the perspective of any POV at any given moment.

readitnweep · Mar 13, 2011

Speaking as a reader, I get annoyed when characters born and raised in a past setting speak in modern syntax. I enjoy the flavor of the setting, but that's just me.

pdr · Mar 13, 2011

There's...

a thread about this buried somewhere on this board. I expect puma will know how to find it. I'm a technophobe!

Generally the rule, as far as editors go, (and also most readers) is to keep your period dialogue simple and clear. Flavour with period words which are easy to understand and you can sometimes use a sentence structure which you have found in contemporary letters/diaries/documents. But don't try to recreate exactly as you can't! We don't know how people talked only what they wrote.

Some of us like to use only the vocabulary available at the time and write with http://www.etymonline.com/ open to check that we aren't using modern words. We use the OED when editing.

Whatever happens avoid gadzookery - the 'Zounds, fellow, I spy thee out, come hither.' - type stuff is not popular now.

As you say your POV is a modern character you can get away with hir thoughts on what and how the people speak and have hir translating in hir mind.

Carmy · Mar 13, 2011

I agree with what pdr said. An occasional word in the "old" language would give the flavour of the period.

I'm bilingual so in one of my books I could use a different language for two of my characters occasionally (when they didn't want other characters to understand what was said), but I showed the English translation alongside. Readers tell me it works.

Mr Flibble · Mar 13, 2011

I'll third pdr. I go for word choice and word order mostly to (try to!) convey a sense of period, with the occasional archaic word thrown in. It would also depend on things like - is the speaker low born, or high born? Etc etc. If you're going for actual historical, think also of the way things would affect/be important to the speaker (In Britain, say, religion would have been a much bigger thing to the inhabitants than it is today, and so might well crop up more often in various phrases)

Jozzy · Mar 13, 2011

Hey all,

Try some of these threads too:

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166245
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206173
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4949541

seun · Mar 14, 2011

Thanks for all your help, people. I've got an idea of which way to go now and it doesn't involve zounds. Which is a shame.

MTP · Mar 15, 2011

I'm no expert on linguistic history, but my impression having read several articles is that a modern-day English speaker could get by in Elizabethan London but would have a very hard time in Chaucer's era. Middle English is probably easier for us to understand on the page than spoken. Some words were pronounced differently in the past. There are audio links of people speaking in middle English pronunciation that you can check out to see the difference.

Rain Gnome · Mar 21, 2011

I also agree that the best way to do this is to make the language appear like it's from that period rather than actually using the authentic language and diction from that period. I think this is accomplished by the way the character's talk, with a tone that suggests that period rather than imitating perfectly the authentic dialogue.

In my story I imitated exactly how people (pirates and sailors) in the 1700s would speak. But a few months later, when I was editing it again, I couldn't even understand what my own characters were saying. How would the reader ever figure it out? That's when I realized I probably went too far in that direction. Also it's pretty annoying to read Walter Scott and stumble through the authentic dialogue of 1800 Scotland.

Past language

seun

Horror Man

Bill Ward

billwardwriter.com

thothguard51

A Gentleman of a refined age...

seun

Horror Man

thothguard51

A Gentleman of a refined age...

readitnweep

pdr

Carmy

Mr Flibble

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

Jozzy

Please, sir, I want some more.

seun

Horror Man

MTP

Rain Gnome

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