First person

Writer2011 · Oct 17, 2005

Are there any "rules" out there that say a first person story can't be written? I know there are many mysteries out there that are told in fiirst person. My question then is this: What's wrong with writing a first person novel? I know there are limitations, but what if the story is supposed to be like that?

Thanks

blacbird · Oct 17, 2005

None whatever. Many many many novels are written in first person POV, ex: Huck Finn, A Clockwork Orange, all the Rex Stout Nero Wolfe mysteries, To Kill a Mockingbird, the list goes on and on. Which provokes two questions: Where did you hear such nonsense? and Do you actually read many novels?

bird

September skies · Oct 17, 2005

What about Bridget Jones Diary? It even had a sequel. Isn't that in the first person?

maestrowork · Oct 17, 2005

Many great novels are written in first person. The problem with first person is that it's harder to write well than, say, third person limited. And there are limitations and pitfalls: limited POV, too much introspection/internal dialogue, too many I's... If done well, a 1st person story could be an incredible, personal adventure...

Writer2011 · Oct 17, 2005

I was just curious. I've heard it somewhere that first person novels aren't very popular but I know there are a number of novels written that way. Thanks again.

Starlightmntn · Oct 17, 2005

As others have said, there is nothing inherently wrong with first person. However, many, many beginning writers use first person thinking it builds intimacy with the protagonist, but then fall into the traps peculiar to first person POV. As Maestrowork stated, first person can be difficult to write well. The result is that editors and agents see a ton of not-so-great first person novels. There may be a cringe factor when some of these editors and agents see the first person POV in a submission.

Jamesaritchie · Oct 17, 2005

aspiringwriter said:
I was just curious. I've heard it somewhere that first person novels aren't very popular but I know there are a number of novels written that way. Thanks again.

First person novels aren't very popular in some genres, such as fantasy and romance. But first person novels are extremely popular in other genres, such as mystery, western, literary, and even horror. One of Stephen King's most popular and award winning novels, "Bag of Bones," was written in first person, and Dean Koontz's extremely popular Christopher Snow novels were written in first person.

Now, first person novels from new writers are not very popular with editors, and this is where the "first person novels aren't popular" line comes from.

First person is much harder for a new writer to handle well than is third person limited. Trouble is, first person seems much easier to write, so many new writers try it, anyway. This has given the combination of first person/new writer a terrible reputation.

blacbird · Oct 17, 2005

Addendum to James's post: I think maybe the biggest pitfall for a first novelist in writing in first person is an inability to separate the narrative POV character from the writer, resulting in a lot of introspective navel lint-picking autobiographical angst. The best first-person POV stuff I've seen tends to come from a writer picking a narrative character who is clearly removed from the writer's personal life, and inhabiting that new character fully in narrating the story. I previously mentioned A Clockwork Orange, by Anthony Burgess, as a good example of a first person novel; it's also a good example of the use of a non-autobiographical narrative character. Another one would be Thomas Berger's novel Little Big Man, source of the famous movie with Dustin Hoffman; the novel is as good as the film and well worth a read. Also, in more genre-specific work, the Travis McGee novels of John D. MacDonald.

bird

SC Harrison · Oct 17, 2005

I think it also depends on the "outlook" of the character in question. First Person follows not only the observations of the protagonist, but his/her perceptions as well. Regardless of how well-written it is, if the reader doesn't agree with (most of) the opinions of the narrator, they won't be able to identify with him/her. The only escape is to close the book.

I have read and enjoyed most of Gore Vidal's stuff, but Myra Breckenridge (sp?) and Myron had me climbing the walls. Crazy people should not be narrators, no matter how many "interesting" things they have done in life.

three seven · Oct 17, 2005

SC Harrison said:
Regardless of how well-written it is, if the reader doesn't agree with (most of) the opinions of the narrator, they won't be able to identify with him/her. The only escape is to close the book.

Three Seven hoped this wasn't true.

Jamesaritchie · Oct 17, 2005

SC Harrison said:
I think it also depends on the "outlook" of the character in question. First Person follows not only the observations of the protagonist, but his/her perceptions as well. Regardless of how well-written it is, if the reader doesn't agree with (most of) the opinions of the narrator, they won't be able to identify with him/her. The only escape is to close the book.

I have read and enjoyed most of Gore Vidal's stuff, but Myra Breckenridge (sp?) and Myron had me climbing the walls. Crazy people should not be narrators, no matter how many "interesting" things they have done in life.

I believe third person limited also follows the perceptions of the protagonist, as well. At least good third person limited does. I think crazy people make great narrators, and people slowly going insane are even better ones.

There's really very little difference between third person limited an first person, when both are done right.

Sarita · Oct 17, 2005

Crazy people should not be narrators, no matter how many "interesting" things they have done in life.

I don't necessarily agree with this. Have you read any of ^ Three's WIP? Uh. The guy is f*cked up, but he's got a slew of people waiting for the book to be done. He's fascinating.

I think it depends upon the voice you give your character. If he's an *** (like Thomas Covenant) but the story is good, you might be able to hold your readers.

I think crazy people make great narrators, and people slowly going insane are even better ones.

Indeed!

veinglory · Oct 17, 2005

Some publishers dislike first person--check out your intended market and preferred pusblisher's guidelines. But in the end it's your story.

maestrowork · Oct 17, 2005

Personally, I think crazy people or evil people or something so "out there" would be a great narrator. If told well, it's really fascinating to get inside that person's head. And there's probably something amazingly universal about the character that, even if you don't agree with what he thinks or does, you can still understand and, thus, identify with him in some way. Also, I don't think first person means the readers must share the narrator's values. To me, it's as if I'm sitting there and listening someone fascinating (or crazy) telling me a story, with the comfort to know that I can close the book when I feel uncomfortable, then pick it up again at my own pace, safely.

unthoughtknown · Oct 17, 2005

Curious! Cause my first WIP is in first person...

unthoughtknown · Oct 17, 2005

blacbird said:
Addendum to James's post: I think maybe the biggest pitfall for a first novelist in writing in first person is an inability to separate the narrative POV character from the writer, resulting in a lot of introspective navel lint-picking autobiographical angst.

Noted!

maestrowork · Oct 17, 2005

blacbird said:
Addendum to James's post: I think maybe the biggest pitfall for a first novelist in writing in first person is an inability to separate the narrative POV character from the writer, resulting in a lot of introspective navel lint-picking autobiographical angst.

It's fun, though, when the readers start to wonder if the character and the writer are one of the same... or "how much does the author puts himself in the character?" It's fun to get them guessing.

SC Harrison · Oct 17, 2005

Okay, I've read some pretty good crazy-person stuff, and it can be thrilling in horror or crime genres. A sociopath who is also genius can give you a "better leave the lights on" feeling, which is cool. What I am talking about is senseless babble, stream-of-consciousness, the crazier the better type stuff. Maybe it's just personal preference, but I just can't get into it.

My first ms was written in First Person. I didn't really plan it that way, it just happened. There's also a little lint-picking, but I cleaned out most of the self-righteous stuff after my second reading. I also noticed (and removed) a couple of stupid POV mistakes. It is trickier than I thought it would be.

writerterri · Oct 17, 2005

It's hard and fun. I'm writing one now and I'm getting stuck alot. But learning is the fun part. See my invite down below and you will see what I mean. Good luck.

mkcbunny · Oct 17, 2005

Jamesaritchie said:
I believe third person limited also follows the perceptions of the protagonist, as well. At least good third person limited does. I think crazy people make great narrators, and people slowly going insane are even better ones.

This is basically what I am in the process of trying to pull off in my first novel, and it's ... well ... it's really hard. My protagonist is a nut, and the story follows her transition from one kind of self-protective insanity to another—a little bit wacky, a little bit ugly, a little bit loopy. In tackling the tale, I wanted to reveal her state of mind, but I absolutely did not want it to be in the first person.

Until I read this thread, I didn't know about any of the aforementioned perceptions regarding first-person/new author works. But, as a reader, I have a difficult time getting into a first-person piece [of any length] if it's not really well done. You need to have a character that lives separate from you, the author, and I need to feel and believe that person is real within a few sentences of the start, or I will be annoyed and just put it down.

reph · Oct 17, 2005

Epistolary novels are necessarily in first person(s), and there's no rule againt them.

Jamesaritchie · Oct 18, 2005

Epistolary

reph said:
Epistolary novels are necessarily in first person(s), and there's no rule againt them.

No, no rule against them, but it can be darned hard to find a publisher for them, especially if you're a new writer.

Jamesaritchie · Oct 18, 2005

I think the two biggest mistakes new writers make in first person is a drastic overuse of the word "I," and in having the protagonist look inside more than he looks outside. Most stories take place outside the protagonist.

It's a version of show versus tell. Just as in third person limited, the protagonist's reaction to the events is best shown through his outward actions and reactions, rather than told through internal monologue.

maestrowork · Oct 18, 2005

I have seen a few recent epistolary novels, one based entirely on emails. Yes, they do get published. Will I read them? Not really. But they do get published.

Jamesaritchie · Oct 18, 2005

maestrowork said:
I have seen a few recent epistolary novels, one based entirely on emails. Yes, they do get published. Will I read them? Not really. But they do get published.

Yes, they do. So do hundreds of first person novels. But it ain't easy, especially for new writers.

First person

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