Woe is me because of judge 3

StoryG27 · Oct 17, 2005

I entered the first 30 pages of my full lenght fiction novel in a contest. Now, I can take criticism, both contstructive and not-so-constructive, but for some reason, I'm really bugged by comments made by one judge. The judges were authors, agents, and editors. Two out of the three judges gave me almost identical scores and I did very well with those two. Actually, had the third score been similar to their scores, I would have won, BUT, the other judge gave me low scores, fives almost straight across (scale of 1-10, 1 being blah, and 10 being, woo-hoo this is awesome).

Here's what is REALLY bugging me, the final question on the score sheet is, "Do you want to read more of this story?" One judge gave me a one. A ONE! Meaning no way would he/she keep reading it. The other judges gave me a nine and a ten on that question and had an abundance of encouraging remarks about anticipating seeing my book on the shelf in stores real soon. Couldn't wait to read the rest, and blah, blah, blah.

Usually, I focus on the positive and learn a lot from negative remarks, but this judge (the one who scored my entry low) made snarky remarks and really didn't tell me much about what I needed to change other than a spelling mistake here and there. That was about it.

I recieved encouragement and praise from two judges, but that faded to the background and that dang 1 on the final question is what I stared at all night. I've always had a seed of self-doubt and now it has sprouted into a chocking weed. Is that judge right? Does this story suck? Do all my stories suck? Part of me says, 'No, look at what the other judges said,' while part of me thinks, 'I knew it. I do suck.' I'm not willing to give up. And the weird thing is, I've taken less than flattering comments before without batting an eye, but this got me feeling down. Usually, I can agree with less than flattering remarks, or see where the person giving them is coming from, but not this time. Maybe that's why it's bugging me. I don't know why he/she didn't like it, didn't want to read anymore of it, and I thought the judge was overly ciritical of 'small' errors.

This has really been bugging me. I can't stop thinking about it. Anyone else here been in my position? Any words of advice? Anything at all? Anyone want to make me feel better?

brinkett · Oct 17, 2005

storygirl said:
Anyone want to make me feel better?

No matter how good a story is, not everyone will like it. There are people who don't like Harry Potter novels, Stephen King, John Grisham, etc. Two out of three judges apparently enjoyed it, which I think is a pretty good result. Try not to link your feelings of disappointment to how you feel about your work. If two out of three judges praised my stuff, I'd feel encouraged.

Nicholas S.H.J.M Woodhouse · Oct 17, 2005

yes, something similar happened to me in a stand-up comic challenge once. three judges. two loved it, one hated it.

words of advice?

give me time to ponder, i'll be back...

paprikapink · Oct 17, 2005

Congratulations, Storygirl, on getting such great comments from two judges!

You've clearly established that the more valuable input comes from the two judges who made more realistic comments -- it's almost immaterial that they are the ones who liked your work more, they are also the ones who were better critiquers. They probably just have more on the ball.

And since you say that you usually don't have too much trouble with negative feedback, it probably isn't anything about this judge at all. It's possible that for some reason unrelated to these judges or this book that you are simply feeling more vulnerable or less confident than usual. Low biorhythms, or catching a bug, or a disagreement with a loved one, or something.

And me too, I can't wait to see your book in stores!

jacksaunders · Oct 17, 2005

shake it off

Don't let it bug you. There's a vast market out there, pushing seven billion souls. Some won't be interested in your subject. Some will. I'm sure you can think of a subject you would not find interesting. If so, when you came to the end of the thirty pages you were somehow required to read, you'd put it down and say "no more, thank you." Two out of three seems pretty good. Write on.

brokenfingers · Oct 17, 2005

I wouldn't worry too much about it.

It could've been something as simple as the judge didn't like the subject matter/genre. Or the judge was having a bad day. Or the judge couldn't stand the other two judges and was just being contrary. Or the judge had a favorite she/he wanted to win.

It's obvious by your posts here and the votes of at least two judges that you can write, so take a deep breath, grab a cup of mojo and get back on that horse.

Like meatloaf said: Two out of three ain't bad...

Susan Gable · Oct 17, 2005

Storygirl, in the romance circles (in which there are MANY contests, it's a much beloved pastime for us, it seems. <G>) getting very diverse responses like that is usually attributed this way: It means you have a strong voice. People either love it, or hate it.

But do consider this, as well. It's a total crapshoot. Luck of the draw as to who you get as judges. For all you know, that judge's dog died the day before and she was in a really crummy mood. Or maybe one of your characters reminded her of someone she totally hates. (Your character might even share a name with that person. Who knows?)

If the other two both had nice things to say, then I would say you're totally right to believe them and dismiss the other one. <G> This business is tough, and we have enough doubt demons. Banish any of them that you can.

I had a recent experience like this regarding reviews on Amazon about my last book. Most responses, not just there, but all over, have been positive. But someone gave my book a ONE because she didn't agree with the major decision made by one of the characters. I'm not letting myself get uptight about it because I can see that it's her own personal opinion that got in the way of her enjoyment of my story. She's entitled to that opinion, so she's entitled to hate my story.

But that's her issue, not mine. I believe my character behaved in exactly the right way for HER. Not for me. Not for that one reader. For my character and my story.

So, always keep in mind that the feedback you are getting is ONE PERSON'S OPINION, and that's it. No matter if it's an editor or agent who rejects it, or a judge that gives it a low score - it's one person's opinion. All it takes is a different person (editor or agent) to accept it and buy it.

I'm not saying that all negative comments are to be ignored when you enter a contest or get a critique - if enough people make the same sorts of comments, then you should probably consider what they're saying. But if it's opposite, like in this case...fuhgedaboudit.

Susan G.

Jamesaritchie · Oct 17, 2005

Judges

All three judges were right, which is a good reason to avoid contests and submit directly to agents and editors. There you have to please only one person at a time. You find a single agent who gives you a nine or a ten, and she finds an editor who gives you a nine or a ten.

maestrowork · Oct 17, 2005

That's the reason why I dislike contests in general...

Celia Cyanide · Oct 17, 2005

All I can really say is "that sucks!" and I can see why it bugs you. It would be one thing if you were able to go over this and say, "yeah, I guess this story needs work, maybe the judges were right, but I'll make it better." But it's pretty annoying that 2 judges think your story is great, and one completely disagrees.

The good news is that not everyone thinks like that third judge. You could have written a story that no one likes.

I agree with brinkett, no matter how good something is, there will always be people who just don't like it. You can't spend your time worrying about appeasing everyone. It's just like in a writing workshop. You listen more to people who like your piece, but think it could be better, rather that someone who just hates it. The crappy part is that this is a contest, and that person's opinion is factored in, and you can't ignore it like a workshop.

Julie Worth · Oct 17, 2005

I think it’s important to concentrate on the negative. The positive can be dismissed as mere pandering, but the negative, ah, there someone went out of their way to insult me and to disparage my work. I like to dwell upon it late at night while drinking, to fantasize what I would do if he somehow fell into my clutches. Call yourself a judge you worm of a man! Ha ha ha! And then I would take my revenge.

Yes, the negative gives me great satisfaction.

Aconite · Oct 17, 2005

The more important thing to consider about all three reactions, rather than "Were they positive or negative?" would be, "Were they right?" Were the negative comments relevant and specific to your work, or just generally snarky? Were the positive comments relevant and specific, or just cheerleading?

If, after honest examination, you determine that the negative comments were just snarky and not relevant, shrug and call it a difference of taste. If, on the other hand, they address real problems that the other two judges glossed over, mentally thank that judge for his honesty and get to work on those problems. Either way, make a decision and move on. (Yes, I know--easy for me to say!)

blacbird · Oct 17, 2005

Jamesaritchie said:
All three judges were right, which is a good reason to avoid contests and submit directly to agents and editors. There you have to please only one person at a time. You find a single agent who gives you a nine or a ten, and she finds an editor who gives you a nine or a ten.

Unless, of course, as has been my experience, the contest judges consistently award high marks (money, even, in some instances), and all the agents return form rejections.

bird

StoryG27 · Oct 17, 2005

Wow, thanks for all your comments and advice. I feel all warm and cozy again. (No, I'm not being sarcastic...really)

Brinkette~ I know I can't please everyone...but I want to. Let me slap myself to save you the trouble. You're right though, I need to get my mind right and focus on the good, maybe that slap will help. Ugh, it's just so annoying. I can usually move on so easily. Just push me, seriously, it's ok, just one hard shove...warining, I do sometimes bite.
Thanks Brink!

Nique~ Yeah, I guess you've been pretty much been in the same spot. I feel for you.

Paprikapink~ I haven't had a fight or anything upseting lately, but this did come the day after a rejection...that maybe why it stung more than usual. :idea:

jack~ There are plenty of genres I have NO interest in. I wouldn't assume a person would judge a genre he or she didn't like though. I know, still, he/she may not have like the content of my particular submission, that's all. See, it still bugs me.

*Deep breath, and let it go. I said, LET IT GO!* Sorry, I really am trying.

Oh, BTW, welcome Jack. I promise, I'm not always this crazy (no matter what you have heard).

Brokenfingers~ I think I have that Meatloaf song in my stack of CDs. Maybe I should go find it. I think from now on I'll lace the pages of my entries with powdered happy-potion.

Susan G~ You couldn't have said anything else to make me feel better than this did:

getting very diverse responses like that is usually attributed this way: It means you have a strong voice. People either love it, or hate it.

I've been told I have a 'unique,' or 'strong' voice, and I've always taken that as a compliment. So thanks. I promise I will try to "fuhgedaboudit."

James and Ray~ You're published, take me with you! *throws herself at their ankles and latches on* Ok, stop poking me with that stick, I'll let go and step back. The reason I entered this contest is because I noticed a trend with some agents taking new writers ONLY if they have a contest win or two under thier belt. Plus, it gives unpublished lil' ol' me something other than, "Just read the dang book..it's good, I promise," to put in my query.

Ceila~

The good news is that not everyone thinks like that third judge. You could have written a story that no one likes.

Don't ask me why, but this made me LOL. I guess because it's so simply honest. It did lighten my out look on my situation.

Thanks to all you! I've laughed, been encouraged, motivated, had ideas and advice brought to my attention I never would have thought on my own, and I am starting to feel better. Whatever would I do without AW and all of you? I don't even want to think about it!

StoryG27 · Oct 17, 2005

Oops, we cross posted.

Unruly Julie~ Oh, I do love the way your twisted little mind works. You always manage to make me LOL. Uh, you mentioned revenge...ideas?

(Note to those taking the revenge idea seriously, stop it. I'm harmless, now Julie...mmm, you'd better watch her)

Aconite~ No, the remarks were plain snarky, and didn't point out anything specific in my writing that I should change except two spelling errors and a few dialouge tags (which were only 'he said' and 'she said') that she didn't think were needed.

Blacbird~ I guess that's ture. Never really thought of it that way. I probably will try a contest someday again...maybe, I could, ya never know.

Ok, if I missed anyone while writing this...sorry, and...I'll be back (giggling 'cuz even though you can't hear, I just did a terrible impression of Arnold Schwarzenegger's voice).

Susan Gable · Oct 17, 2005

storygirl said:
I've been told I have a 'unique,' or 'strong' voice, and I've always taken that as a compliment. So thanks. I promise I will try to "fuhgedaboudit."

Good. Having a strong voice IS a compliment, and it's a GOOD thing. A strong voice gets noticed.

Jenny Crusie spoke a few years back at the RWA National conference, and one of the things she spoke about was that she loves getting 5's or 1's on the Amazon ratings. BEcause she says that means she REALLY impacted the reader. What she doesn't like is the middle-of-the-road 3. She said, "Come back here you <naughtyword> and give me a ONE! I DESERVE IT!" LOL.

A 3 is a meh, can take it or leave it. But high and lows, they really show you made an impact. <G>

storygirl said:
The reason I entered this contest is because I noticed a trend with some agents taking new writers ONLY if they have a contest win or two under thier belt. Plus, it gives unpublished lil' ol' me something other than, "Just read the dang book..it's good, I promise," to put in my query.

And she IS writing in the romance genre. It really is kind of a standard thing. If you can get some good finals under your belt, it does help get you noticed - not to mention that there HAVE been writers signed by both agents and editors as a direct result of some of these contests.

Glad we were able to help you feel better.

Susan G.

Jamesaritchie · Oct 17, 2005

blacbird said:
Unless, of course, as has been my experience, the contest judges consistently award high marks (money, even, in some instances), and all the agents return form rejections.

bird

No, even then. So you win a contest. Other than an ego boost and a few bucks, where are you? With very, very few exceptions, contests are meaningless, win, lose, or draw.

Every judge in a contest can love your writing, and ever agent and editor hate it, and every judge in a contest can loathe your writing, and agents and editors love it.

NeuroFizz · Oct 17, 2005

Story, If you want to put a positive spin on it (with all cautions about contests in general), if we could all touch two out of every three readers, we would all be quite successful in this business. So what if your sample size is small (n=3). Take it as a positive and keep writing. My guess is many other writers in that contest scored well with only one out of three judges, or none out of three. To me it would suggest I'm on the right track, but as always, with much work to do.

blacbird · Oct 17, 2005

Jamesaritchie said:
No, even then. So you win a contest. Other than an ego boost and a few bucks, where are you?

Same place I've gotten through sending things to agents and editors.

scarletpeaches · Oct 17, 2005

blacbird, I hope you'll forgive me for asking this, but from what I've picked up from your posts, do you enjoy writing? Is that your bottom line reason for doing it?

Celia Cyanide · Oct 17, 2005

Jamesaritchie said:
With very, very few exceptions, contests are meaningless, win, lose, or draw.

They tend to mean something to those of us who have won awards through them.

Jamesaritchie said:
Every judge in a contest can love your writing, and ever agent and editor hate it, and every judge in a contest can loathe your writing, and agents and editors love it.

With that in mind, they mean about the same thing to me.

blacbird · Oct 17, 2005

scarletpeaches said:
blacbird, I hope you'll forgive me for asking this, but from what I've picked up from your posts, do you enjoy writing? Is that your bottom line reason for doing it?

Yes. The writing part. Even the editing and rewriting parts. The absence of success at any of the further aspects of "the process" I don't. It's left me with a pretty clear indication that I can't do the writing part, and editing and rewriting parts, well enough to make the grade, which does leave me wondering why I keep doing the writing and editing and rewriting parts.

bird

Jamesaritchie · Oct 17, 2005

Place

blacbird said:
Same place I've gotten through sending things to agents and editors.

True enough, I guess, but the question, I think, is this: What's the best course of action you can take to reach a point where agent and editors say yes?

Now, there are some good, worthwhile contests out there. Not many, but some. The RWA has some contests that can be very beneficial. There are two or three mystery contests that are very good, and a handful of literary contests that are good and worthwhile.

I think the best way to judge the worth of a contest is to ask what happens if you win? Good contests almost always lead you right into the waiting arms of agents and editors. Bad contests do not.

And I firmly believe that if a writer spends too much time entering and trying to win the bad contests, he greatly lessons his chances of finding a good agent and a worthy publisher.

Silverhand · Oct 17, 2005

Story,

Its tough to keep a positive outlook when you hear such a range of feedback. I totally feel your pain, and I hope you keep on writing. I also had a simlar experience, where I had several beta-readers just love the novel...and my agent...who I was handed to after mine retired had a completely different outlook.

The outlook was so drasticly different that it kinda angered me. What the heck am I supposed to do when there is nothing constructive...? I even had to stop writing for a month or so it bothered me that much. of course, I am over now...but the thing is to just keep ticking away at it.

Good luck

Eric

Mistook · Oct 17, 2005

Screw Judge Three.

Look at it this way: if all it takes to consume your undivided attention is for me to cut down your work without even bothering to back up my statements... what does that make you?

Woe is me because of judge 3

Miss Behave

Elder Scrolls devotee

swooping after you

Bored fanatic

jacksaunders

Walkin' That Road

Dreamer of dreams, teller of tales

Fear the Death Ray

Joker Groupie

What? I have a title?

Miss Behave

Miss Behave

Dreamer of dreams, teller of tales

The grad students did it

Joker Groupie

Neverending WIP