The year Paris was named Paris?

cooeedownunder · Mar 2, 2011

My maiden name is Parrish. Years ago a fellow who studied genealogy told me that the name came from France and that it extended from the people that named Paris in the 12th century. How true that is, I don’t know, but the thought of that being true has always fascinated me and now and again I've dabled in the idea of fiction based around such a time.

I am wondering if anyone has suggestions for fiction and non-fiction surrounding the naming of Paris?

wikpedia gives me a broad understanding, but the dates don’t fit me being told it was the 12th century and therefore I’m not sure where I should start.

thothguard51 · Mar 2, 2011

Try this link...

http://www.discoverfrance.net/France/Paris/Paris_history.shtml

According to the article...

[SIZE=+2]P[/SIZE]aris is more than 2,000 years old. Gauls of the Parisii tribe settled there between 250 and 200 BC and founded a fishing village on an island in the river that is the present-day Ile de la Cité -- the center around which Paris developed.

Further information notes...

Known as Lutetia (Lutece) in ancient times, Paris was conquered by Julius Caesar in 52 BC, and existed as a regional center under the Romans and in the early Middle Ages. In 987, HUGH CAPET, Count of Paris, became king of France, and under his successors, the CAPETIANS, the city's position as the nation's capital became established.

Hope this helps.

Puma · Mar 2, 2011

Your question surprised me because I always associate Parrish with Britain. So I looked ... and this is what I found:

Source 1 -
Parrish is an ancient Anglo-Saxon name that is derived from the Saxon tribe called Parisii who originally lived beside the Humber river in Lincolnshire.

First found in Lincolnshire where they held a family seat from early times and their first records appeared on the census rolls taken by the ancient Kings of Britain to determine the rate of taxation of their subjects.

In an attempt to escape the chaos experienced in England, many English families boarded overcrowded and diseased ships sailing for the shores of North America and other British colonies. Those families hardy enough, and lucky enough, to make the passage intact were rewarded with land and a social environment less prone to religious and political persecution.

Source 2 -
Origin of the name Parish
In 1997, Elaine Parrish provided this account of the Parish name origin to us: The most informed source I have spoken to is J. M. Parish in Canada. He recommends - among others - the books: 'The Parisii' by Harold Ramm (this covers the arrival in Yorkshire up to Medieval times) and 'The Conquest of Gaul' by Julius Caesar - written about 50 A.D. In short (what Joe maintains and what was confirmed by [and added to by] several other sources):
The Parisii were a Celtic clan that lived in a place called Paris (now Paris, France). The Roman Empire was out conquering everything everywhere.They went to battle with the Parisii, but the Romans were too great in number and won. The Parisii that could, fled to an isolated strip in what is now England and from there went to what is now Ireland.
Since Parisii was an odd name and since it was a custom of the time for a last name to be simply "of [placename]", and since some wanted to blend in , etc, the name Parisii began to change. Some kept Parisii; some changed it and it became "Paris" or "de Paris" (of Paris); As they moved into Ireland, the "h" was added; variations became O'Paris, O'Parish, and Parish. Then "The Church" came along and used "Parish" to denote areas, so the second "r" was added by some so as not to be associated with the Church.
The name changes happened over many generations and was prompted by a variety of reasons (including: a desire to fit in or not stand out as different; to gain favor with or avoid conflict with "the powers that be"; or just because people were not educated and it just happened - as in census takers and tax roll compilers here change spellings).
Joe said that one "r" Parish was more common in Canada and Down Under; while the two "r" Parrish was more common in the U.S.

According to family histories in general the name of Parish evolved from two main distinct origins. In other words, there are at least two families branches, unrelated, namely:
Of French extraction or from Paris - evolved from "de Paris", (of Paris) from the city of Paris, as a Norman French name, originally "de Paris" which translates from French into English as "of Paris", and eventually became Parish, Parys, etc. One Englishman, Matthew Paris, the English chronicler of the early part of the thirteenth century, acquired his name from his study at the University of Paris. Paris sometimes added an h to his name to make it Parish or Parrish.
Of a locality or church parish - Parish or Parrish as a name taken from locality or even a church parish. A name local in origin, persons from this branch are not necessarily French in origin as the lines which derived from Paris above. Also in the 17th and 18th centuries, the surname was occasionally bestowed on foundlings brought up at the expense of the parish...... the young person who was an orphan of the church - in the days before welfare and state aid, an orphan with no surname may have picked up the last name of Parish as being "of the Parish"
A third, less common origin of the name comes from the rare medieval given name Paris, probably a form of Patrick, but associated with the name of the Trojan prince, Paris, which has been speculatively traced to an original Illyrian form Voltuparis or Assparis "Hawk".

(all lifted from websites in a Google search - obviously) Puma

cooeedownunder · Mar 2, 2011

Thanks for the link. It jumps the nameing of it and goes to 987AD to the Count of Paris.

Wikepida jumps from 52BC to the 5th Century - then 400AD although maybe there is the hint in the last line?

The collapse of the Roman empire and the 5th-century Germanic invasions sent the city into a period of decline. By 400 AD, Lutèce, largely abandoned by its inhabitants, was little more than a garrison town entrenched into a hastily fortified central island.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris#cite_note-roman_chronology-20 The city reclaimed its original appellation of "Paris" towards the end of the Roman occupation.

Deleted member 42 · Mar 2, 2011

Paris is absolutely, positively named after the Parisii; we have references to them in Latin texts, as well as inscriptions on Gaulish altars still in Paris.

It was a thriving trade center even before the Romans arrived, and a notable port that appears to have been famous/notorious for the wine trade; The Celts favored unwatered wine, and so barrels of wine from the Mediterranean were brought to Paris, and from there, even ended up in Ireland.

Their coins, by the way, are lovely.

And the Parisii altar is the only (partially) attested incidence of the presumed deity [C]ernunnos.

thothguard51 · Mar 2, 2011

Yes, that is my reasoning as well... Not an exact date, but I suspect further study could narrow it down even more on when the last Roman legion left...

Puma · Mar 2, 2011

I think this is what you're looking for, Cooee ...

4th-9th centuries: Frankish and Norman invasions. Clovis I pronounces the kingdom of Gaul and renames Lutetia Paris.

Though he fought a battle at Dijon in the year 500, Clovis did not successfully subdue the Burgundian kingdom. It appears that he somehow gained the support of the Arvernians in the following years, for they assisted him in his defeat of the Visigothic kingdom of Toulouse in the Battle of Vouillé (507) which eliminated Visigothic power in Gaul and confined the Visigoths to Hispania and Septimania; the battle added most of Aquitaine to Clovis's kingdom.[4] He then established Paris as his capital,[4] and established an abbey dedicated to Saints Peter and Paul on the south bank of the Seine. Later it was renamed Sainte-Geneviève Abbey, in honor of the patron saint of Paris.[8]

So, you're looking at about 510 AD. Puma

cooeedownunder · Mar 2, 2011

Puma. Thank you too. I should have probably explained myself better to save you spending so much time. I am aware of where the name could have come from and the possibility we are not from the French line. I blogged about it a year or so ago.

What I'm trying to do is pinpoint the events or year when Paris was named. This friend of mine told me it was the 12th Century, but I can't find anything to confirm that.

cooeedownunder · Mar 2, 2011

OH, guys, you are gorgeous I was typing my last post while you guys were posting LOL

cooeedownunder · Mar 2, 2011

Oh, dear.

What on earth does this mean Medievalist And the Parisii altar is the only (partially) attested incidence of the presumed deity [C]ernunnos.

Puma, my mind boggles at your last post. Looking at those names sends me crosseyed. I knew I was up for a challenge. :Wha:

Deleted member 42 · Mar 2, 2011

cooeedownunder said:
Oh, dear.
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=29
What on earth does this mean Medievalist And the Parisii altar is the only (partially) attested incidence of the presumed deity [C]ernunnos.

There's a figure on the Gundestrup Cauldron; human body, crossed legs, and antlers. He's surrounded by animals, and is sometimes called the "Lord of the Animals." His horns have made him associated with a deity that we think was called Cernunnons; Cern is related to corn, and cornet, and corniche--it means "horn."

The Parisi altar has a horned figure, and a partial inscription that looks like Cernunnos, missing the C. It was found under Notre Dame, in Paris. It has a partial reference to the Parisi, as a people, suggesting that even post-Roman control, they perceived themselves as a specific group of people.

cooeedownunder · Mar 2, 2011

Absolutly fascinating!

thothguard51 · Mar 2, 2011

Absolutly...

Puma · Mar 2, 2011

This is way off your post, Cooee, but if you want a quick read set a bit later, try Michael Crichton's Eaters of the Dead. It might give you some ideas and will definitely pull you back closer to the time period. It's one of his early (and therefore, non-formula) books. Puma

Deleted member 42 · Mar 2, 2011

cooeedownunder said:
Absolutly fascinating!

Seriously, Google Parisi and coins; they're known for being some of the most beautiful Celtic coins.

Puma · Mar 2, 2011

Medievalist - That was scary. I Googled Parisii and coins and the first one up looked remarkably like a gold pin my daughter made in art class (Carved in wax and then cast. She called it Old Man Winter.) The Parisii coins I just looked at were beautiful. But for a minute there ... Puma

cooeedownunder · Mar 2, 2011

Puma said:
This is way off your post, Cooee, but if you want a quick read set a bit later, try Michael Crichton's Eaters of the Dead. It might give you some ideas and will definitely pull you back closer to the time period. It's one of his early (and therefore, non-formula) books. Puma

I just went and read an excerpt of the first chapter. I like it. Will get it and have a read.

cooeedownunder · Mar 2, 2011

Medievalist said:
Seriously, Google Parisi and coins; they're known for being some of the most beautiful Celtic coins.

Yes, they are gorgeous. Could be my profile on one of them

t0dd · Mar 13, 2011

I was surprised - and fascinated - by the mention of the word "parish" being derived from "Paris". I'll have to look that up to find out if it's true.

DianeL · Apr 26, 2011

Puma said:
I think this is what you're looking for, Cooee ...

4th-9th centuries: Frankish and Norman invasions. Clovis I pronounces the kingdom of Gaul and renames Lutetia Paris.

Though he fought a battle at Dijon in the year 500, Clovis did not successfully subdue the Burgundian kingdom. It appears that he somehow gained the support of the Arvernians in the following years, for they assisted him in his defeat of the Visigothic kingdom of Toulouse in the Battle of Vouillé (507) which eliminated Visigothic power in Gaul and confined the Visigoths to Hispania and Septimania; the battle added most of Aquitaine to Clovis's kingdom.[4] He then established Paris as his capital,[4] and established an abbey dedicated to Saints Peter and Paul on the south bank of the Seine. Later it was renamed Sainte-Geneviève Abbey, in honor of the patron saint of Paris.[8]

So, you're looking at about 510 AD. Puma

Puma, you're writing about my man there. Hee.

There isn't actually a great deal to prove Clovis himself named the city, but he did entrench it as his own capital - and that from the guy who first consolidated the vast territories that roughed out what we now call "France" - so his role in the city's history wasn't minor.

Happy 1500th anniversary of his death, kids!

*Shutting up now because that really contributed nothing to the topic*

Deleted member 42 · Apr 26, 2011

t0dd said:
I was surprised - and fascinated - by the mention of the word "parish" being derived from "Paris". I'll have to look that up to find out if it's true.

That is a folk etymology, alas.

The year Paris was named Paris?

cooeedownunder

Grateful for the day

thothguard51

A Gentleman of a refined age...

Puma

Retired and loving it!

cooeedownunder

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Deleted member 42

thothguard51

A Gentleman of a refined age...

Puma

Retired and loving it!

cooeedownunder

Grateful for the day

cooeedownunder

Grateful for the day

cooeedownunder

Grateful for the day

Deleted member 42

cooeedownunder

Grateful for the day

thothguard51

A Gentleman of a refined age...

Puma

Retired and loving it!

Deleted member 42

Puma

Retired and loving it!

cooeedownunder

Grateful for the day

cooeedownunder

Grateful for the day

t0dd

DianeL

Deleted member 42