Subbing too early?

[BjornAbust]

It's never a good idea to submit your work before it's 100% finished. You've got to make sure that it's your very best if you want it to be taken seriously. That having been said, has anyone else here rushed through a piece and submitted it, only to regret their decision later? Ever sent something unpolished to an editor in the hopes that it'll be "good enough"?

[Jamesaritchie]

It depends on what you mean by "unpolished." Sometimes crap comes out, sometimes good comes out, and sometimes great comes out, and great is great, no matter how fast you write it, or how little you polish it. My first $1,000 dollar short story sake took four hours from conception to submission. So did my second.

Both pieces were published in top glossy magazines without a word being changed.

I write something, and then I read it. I see something I think needs to be changed, I change it. If I don't see anything that I think needs changed, I submit it.

With short stories, slow and careful doesn't work very well for me. Fast and furious very often does. Either way, it's about quality, not polish. Sometimes quality come on the first try, sometimes not. I adjust accordingly.

[Dandroid]

what was the question? i am too busy wanting to treat the op with nitro....

[BjornAbust]

what was the question? i am too busy wanting to treat the op with nitro....

Haha! I think I'll be alright.

Four hours from conception to submission? I'm sure I don't have to tell you this, but that's extremely impressive. Or, at least, it is to me. I agree that the quality of writing varies from time to time. Sometimes crap comes out and other times I'll churn out something worthwhile. Even when the first draft turns out great however, I find that I still need to polish it. I'll tweak the grammar or axe entire sections. Unfortunately, I tend to do this to the point of mania; it keeps me working on my stories for longer than I'd like, and it also keeps me from being more prolific.

Going back to my original question however- I have, once or twice, submitted a piece of my work that I did not have total faith in. "This could be a lot better," I'd think to myself."The story, in its current incarnation, doesn't even come close to my original vision. But... since I can't seem to think of any way to improve it at the moment, then I guess it's ready for submission. Who knows, maybe it'll get accepted! It'd be so nice to get another story published!" The submission was made hastily, and I sent it in the hopes that the editor would enjoy it despite my misgivings. In some ways, I think that this is laziness. In other ways, it was impatience and excitement.

Anyone else guilty of this sort of thing?

[Izz]

Going back to my original question however- I have, once or twice, submitted a piece of my work that I did not have total faith in. "This could be a lot better," I'd think to myself."The story, in its current incarnation, doesn't even come close to my original vision. But... since I can't seem to think of any way to improve it at the moment, then I guess it's ready for submission. Who knows, maybe it'll get accepted! It'd be so nice to get another story published!" The submission was made hastily, and I sent it in the hopes that the editor would enjoy it despite my misgivings. In some ways, I think that this is laziness. In other ways, it was impatience and excitement.

Anyone else guilty of this sort of thing?
Yep. One thing i've learnt is that i need time between writing a story draft and editing it before subbing. Right now, with Write1Sub1, i'm allowing a month between writing and editing. I'm finding (or at least, i think i'm finding) that is giving me enough distance to look at the story objectively.

It's definitely a balancing act between sending a story out too early, and holding onto a story too long and killing it with editing.

[ElisabethF]

Yep. One thing i've learnt is that i need time between writing a story draft and editing it before subbing. Right now, with Write1Sub1, i'm allowing a month between writing and editing. I'm finding (or at least, i think i'm finding) that is giving me enough distance to look at the story objectively.

Exactly. I've found several times that putting a story away for a while when I'm having trouble with it - or even just finding it less than impressive - is a big help. I think if you get too frustrated with something you can be tempted to over-edit. Sometimes it's purely a matter of attitude, if I've been working too hard on one story for so long and have convinced myself that it's no good. On the flip side, a fresh look at something you thought was perfect can show you things that need fixing.

[SmallThing]

It's definitely a balancing act between sending a story out too early, and holding onto a story too long and killing it with editing.

I've been using W1S1 as a way to get stories out the door quickly, before I have a chance to kill them. I'm brilliant at removing all trace of voice from something if I give myself free rein with editing. Some stories take me a long time to write because I can't find the heart of them at first (yes, I'm talking about you, TSTKMB), and some I hang onto a bit longer because I want to think (not fiddle with until it collapses, just think) about the plot and make sure it holds up.

But for now I'm erring on the side of sending out too quickly, rather than going my usual route of highly polished and completely lifeless prose. It's been fun. :)

[Jamesaritchie]

Haha! I think I'll be alright.

Four hours from conception to submission? I'm sure I don't have to tell you this, but that's extremely impressive. Or, at least, it is to me. I agree that the quality of writing varies from time to time. Sometimes crap comes out and other times I'll churn out something worthwhile. Even when the first draft turns out great however, I find that I still need to polish it. I'll tweak the grammar or axe entire sections. Unfortunately, I tend to do this to the point of mania; it keeps me working on my stories for longer than I'd like, and it also keeps me from being more prolific.

Going back to my original question however- I have, once or twice, submitted a piece of my work that I did not have total faith in. "This could be a lot better," I'd think to myself."The story, in its current incarnation, doesn't even come close to my original vision. But... since I can't seem to think of any way to improve it at the moment, then I guess it's ready for submission. Who knows, maybe it'll get accepted! It'd be so nice to get another story published!" The submission was made hastily, and I sent it in the hopes that the editor would enjoy it despite my misgivings. In some ways, I think that this is laziness. In other ways, it was impatience and excitement.

Anyone else guilty of this sort of thing?
Not all stories come fast or easy, but one thing I've noticed is that nearly every story I write extremely fast and very, very well seems to come full-blown, and contains a lot of real life. Both those stories were based solidly on real life experiences. Others I've written very well fast always seemed to have some trigger that brought the whole story into my head.

One example came from a day I was walking to the local shopping center with my son. We cut across the big front yard of a housing complex, and saw shredded pieces of money, obviously the result of a lawnmower accident. We picked up the pieces, found two nearly complete dollars bills, though torn into at least fifty pieces.

A short story jumped into my mind. I knew the beginning, the middle, and the end all at once. All I had to do was sit down and write it.

But writing short stories very fast is not at all uncommon. Many very good short story writers have worked this way. Many believe that good short stories usually come fast, and are written in a hot fury.

William Saroyan sold his first short story by sitting down and writing a story a day for a month, and submitting the story the same day, all to, appropriately, Story. Somewhere about two thirds of the way through the month, he sat down and wrote The Daring Young Man on the Flying Trapeze.

Letting stories rest really doesn't help me. Neither does a lot of revision and rewriting. Like Isaac Asimov, if the quick second draft doesn't do the job, I've probably written something that isn't going to sell, no matter how much I work on it. I don't think I've ever written a good story that took more than a week to write, but I've sure written some bad ones that took two weeks or longer.

[AlwaysJuly]

We'll see at the end of Write 1, Sub 1. :p I've subbed a few things out where I was ambivalent about the piece, but so far I haven't regretted it.

But, all my stories are as 'polished' as I can get them when I sub. By 6 months later when I get a rejection back, I might see a way I can improve it.

[izanobu]

A writer is the worst judge of their own work. You don't know what to "fix" anyway (beyond making sure you don't have typos etc).

Write it. Finish it. Submit it. Repeat.

You'll learn more by writing another story than trying to mess with one anyway. There's no penalty for mailing something bad, seriously. An editor won't even remember who you are. If a story doesn't sell, oh well, you've written hundreds of others in the meantime. A story is not a special flower that is your only shot at being published, it's a product. If one product doesn't catch someone's attention so they buy it, just offer them another.

Write. Submit. Repeat. Don't over think it :)

[BjornAbust]

A writer is the worst judge of their own work. You don't know what to "fix" anyway (beyond making sure you don't have typos etc).

Write it. Finish it. Submit it. Repeat.

You'll learn more by writing another story than trying to mess with one anyway. There's no penalty for mailing something bad, seriously. An editor won't even remember who you are. If a story doesn't sell, oh well, you've written hundreds of others in the meantime. A story is not a special flower that is your only shot at being published, it's a product. If one product doesn't catch someone's attention so they buy it, just offer them another.

Write. Submit. Repeat. Don't over think it :)

Thanks for this! I'll have to keep this in mind. Of course, I'm sure I won't be able to help myself at times; I'll always feel the urge to tinker with my work. Still, such compulsions should never get in the way of writing/submitting. If I get stuck editing something into oblivion, then I'll never grow as a writer. And it's true; I am my harshest critic.

[Jamesaritchie]

A writer is the worst judge of their own work. You don't know what to "fix" anyway (beyond making sure you don't have typos etc).

Write it. Finish it. Submit it. Repeat.

You'll learn more by writing another story than trying to mess with one anyway. There's no penalty for mailing something bad, seriously. An editor won't even remember who you are. If a story doesn't sell, oh well, you've written hundreds of others in the meantime. A story is not a special flower that is your only shot at being published, it's a product. If one product doesn't catch someone's attention so they buy it, just offer them another.

Write. Submit. Repeat. Don't over think it :)

I think that's it exactly. If I see something obviously wrong, I fix it, but other than this, I submit it and forget it. I've sold all sorts of things I thought were awful, and had rejection after rejection on things I thought were really good.

It's the editor's job to judge the writing, not the writer's. Send him the story, and let him do his job.

[Euan H.]

That having been said, has anyone else here rushed through a piece and submitted it, only to regret their decision later?
I had this earlier this week. I'd revised a story that had been hanging around for ages, sent it off to an editor I know personally . . . and then sent him an email the next morning asking him to yank it from the queue. In between, I realised that I'd been polishing a turd. It was very shiny, but it was still a turd.

Some stories just do not work. Usually, I can tell before I submit, but in this case it took longer.

[Jamesaritchie]

I had this earlier this week. I'd revised a story that had been hanging around for ages, sent it off to an editor I know personally . . . and then sent him an email the next morning asking him to yank it from the queue. In between, I realised that I'd been polishing a turd. It was very shiny, but it was still a turd.

Some stories just do not work. Usually, I can tell before I submit, but in this case it took longer.

I dont think any writer knows turd from turquoise when it comes to his own writing. Every story should be submitted, and every story should stay in submission until it sells, or until there's no place on earth left to submit it.

Even if a story is a turd, it does no harm to keep it out there, but it always hurts to pull one. Especially before editors get to decide for themselves. Your turd may be some editor's idea of the perfect story.

[FOTSGreg]

IMNSHO sh&t happens. You may think you've edited the hell out of a story and then find out that you just sent the wrong gawdamned file to the editor (one that's full of typos or still has the italics underlined or that has a disjointed timeline) because you forgot which file was which.

You may think you edited the story fine only to find out from the editor that you edited the story out of the story.

See, writers are their own worst judges. Someone else, someone who doesn't care all that much for us, needs to read the stories with a critical eye and tell us when we've screwed the pooch somewhere.

[Shadow_Ferret]

I wrote a short last night, edited, and submitted it within just a few hours.

I don't think sitting on it and overanalyzing would have made it any better a story.

[AlwaysJuly]

Yeah, I really don't feel like I can judge my own work very well. That certainly contributes to my write-sub-forget cycle that I've started recently. While I think that's a good thing, I envy people that can assess their work more accurately themselves.

[Euan H.]

Every story should be submitted, and every story should stay in submission until it sells, or until there's no place on earth left to submit it.
Hm. Okay. I'll sub it today (not to the same editor), then post back here about what happens.

[Dandroid]

Hm. Okay. I'll sub it today (not to the same editor), then post back here about what happens.

great avi.

[NicoleMD]

I've had several stories that I thought had pretty good promise. They were getting a lot of personal rejections, so I thought the story was close, but not quite there. Then I edited, workshopped, revised, polished...several times over. Then the stories started getting form rejections.

So now I try to do all of my editing while I'm still in the honeymoon phase of the story, when it's all emotion. Apparently my logical brain is a hack.

Nicole

[Damian_Rucci]

I actually subbed an earlier draft of one of the first stories I had ever written. It was littered with spelling an syntax erorrs and I'm embarrased I ever did so. I was on an all night writing spree and subbed it in a half-asleep state. Bad idea.

[jaksen]

My 'lousiest' story took me two days to write during an ice storm. We had no power and it was either that or play endless board games with the kids...

I sent it off less than a week later. I sold it.

It also tends to be my quirkiest short story.

[Nathaniel Katz]

My stories come into their own in editing, I've found. Often, I'll change a decent amount of the plot, but, more importantly, I find that a lot of the story's spark is brought out on editing when I can go back knowing what I want it to be and prune away everything that was said getting there. The stories that I think, after first finishing, are good enough to go out after just a read through I find almost invariably to be, upon editor's rejection and my rereading, to be filled with problems.

Of course, this is likely all ridiculous, as my one sale (so far) was something that I banged out in a single sitting and edited & submitted the next day.

[Rufus Leeking]

Even if a story is a turd, it does no harm to keep it out there, but it always hurts to pull one. Especially before editors get to decide for themselves. Your turd may be some editor's idea of the perfect story.2. I have a story I love- everyone I speak to that has read it loves it- but for the last few years it's been rejected over and over across multiple rewrites. meanwhile what has been published is stuff I thought a toss off-

Question for the long timers- early on when submitting I couldn't deal with the thought of some stories never catching- I'll die and they'll only be on my computer. after a decade or so do you quit being bothered by this?

[Euan H.]

Think of them as your sketchbook. That helps for me.

[alexshvartsman]

Question for the long timers- early on when submitting I couldn't deal with the thought of some stories never catching- I'll die and they'll only be on my computer. after a decade or so do you quit being bothered by this?

I am fairly new to this myself, but I already find myself developing a much thicker skin and a better attitude about rejection. If I believe a story has merit, I'll just keep submitting it. If I run out of places to submit it (hasn't happened yet) I will probably do some major renovations on it and send it out all over again.

Like others here, I've sold a few stories I thought were weaker right away and have had some of my favorites rejected up to 10 times before they finally sold.

[Nathaniel Katz]

I dont think any writer knows turd from turquoise when it comes to his own writing. Every story should be submitted, and every story should stay in submission until it sells, or until there's no place on earth left to submit it.

Even if a story is a turd, it does no harm to keep it out there, but it always hurts to pull one. Especially before editors get to decide for themselves. Your turd may be some editor's idea of the perfect story.
I generally agree with you (my opinion on my various stories changes fast enough that going by it would be impossible), but I am planning to pull one of my stories after it's next rejection, which would only be its second. It occured to me that, if it was published, I'd actually be rather embaressed to mention it on my blog, and I doubt anyone would be tempted to read another tale by me after it. If I have so little faith in something, why should I try to get it published when, in a best case scenario, it's just highlighting my faults for the world to see?

[Jamesaritchie]

I generally agree with you (my opinion on my various stories changes fast enough that going by it would be impossible), but I am planning to pull one of my stories after it's next rejection, which would only be its second. It occured to me that, if it was published, I'd actually be rather embaressed to mention it on my blog, and I doubt anyone would be tempted to read another tale by me after it. If I have so little faith in something, why should I try to get it published when, in a best case scenario, it's just highlighting my faults for the world to see?





If the editor of a good magazine thinks enough of a piece to buy it, you're wrong in your assessment of the piece. If an editor doesn't buy it, it won't be seen by anyone.

Start pulling stories because you don't like them, and you;re dead in the water. Not liking your own writing builds, and it won't be long before you're afraid to leave anything on the market.

[Shadow_Ferret]

Question for the long timers- early on when submitting I couldn't deal with the thought of some stories never catching- I'll die and they'll only be on my computer. after a decade or so do you quit being bothered by this?

No. Every rejection still rips my heart out and I still think I'll die and only my computer will know I wrote.

[MattJ]

This thread is not going the direction I expected, which is a good thing!

I've found that when I bash something out, I generally don't have a good idea about what I'm trying to say. When I look at it, I can go back and tweak it and shift the focus.

I suppose my question is, is it important to simply be published, or to build a body of work you're proud of? I can see the wisdom of subbing everything and letting the editors decide if its any good, but it seems odd not to make the story the best it can be.

Right now, my quit point is when I do an edit, and I'm changing a word here and there.

Of course, I haven't published anything yet. :)

[MattJ]

I'l know, Shadow Ferret. I'll know, and I'll light a candle for you, under the willow tree. :D

No. Every rejection still rips my heart out and I still think I'll die and only my computer will know I wrote.

[Nathaniel Katz]

If the editor of a good magazine thinks enough of a piece to buy it, you're wrong in your assessment of the piece. If an editor doesn't buy it, it won't be seen by anyone.

Start pulling stories because you don't like them, and you;re dead in the water. Not liking your own writing builds, and it won't be long before you're afraid to leave anything on the market.
I suppose that is true; the editor's not likely to buy an awful story out of a desire to ruin their magazine. I suppose I shall, then, continue to burden fantasy editors with the manuscript in question.