Question about publishing in the erotic markets...

So I had the same questions when I first started thinking about publishing. I started submitting queries and looking for agents or a publisher. After the box I kept my rejection letters in began to overflow I decided to stop waitning. I am getting ready to release my first romance next week on Amazon, BN.com and smashwords. It may flop and the only copy I sell may be to my mom but at least its out there and I'm working to promote it. I still have a couple of other books that I am shopping around but in the meantime I am working toward something. Really I think it comes down to personal preference, there is no wrong or right answer but no matter which road you choose, know that it's hard work and you will always have to promote yourself and improve your craft.

My works tend not to be "pure" erotica, but rather are fiction with strong erotic elements. Are there publishers (e-pub or traditional) that take that, or is that a "between two stools" situation where neither would want it?

CMN, I don't see any advantage to going with self-publishing without first trying traditional publishing. And then if nobody in the business wants to publish your work, you might want to consider that your skills really aren't at a professional level yet. With very rare exceptions, "traditional" publishing IS "getting published." It is how you get paid, get a credit, start making a name for yourself and getting a following. Anybody can always pay to have their own stuff published at any time, no rush on that. Good luck with it.

I never even considered self-publishing. I'd burn my manuscripts before I went that route.

scarletpeaches said:

I never even considered self-publishing. I'd burn my manuscripts before I went that route.

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What Scarlett said.

My advice, FWIW, is to write the book, polish it, make it the best you can, pass it on to a few Beta readers and then try for an agent or sub directly to an e-publisher, which you don't need an agent for.

I think I'll toss in my two cents.

There are pros and cons going both routes and honestly it is hard work either way. I would recommend writing the best story you can, then make it better. Tighten your story and tweak it until it is the best you can make it. Do your research and try to find it a home through a publishing company. Try to get representation through an agent. If you can produce quality work and are determined going the "traditional" route is certainly an option. Don't give up after a rejection or two or before you even try.

Self publishing is, in my opinion, a last resort option if you have tried repeatedly to sell your work and no one is interested. Self publishing is not an easier way to go, not if you do it right. I have several friends who are doing the self publishing route(actually we refer to it as Independent Publishing) and I have been taking notes as to how much work they put into it. I will mention this is e-publishing I am not sure about the print self publishing. From designing covers, editing, checking to ensure the formatting for the e-files is correct, editing, scanning over and over for typos, editing, not to mention the marketing side of things. After all putting your work up for sale is only part of it. You have to find and establish a fan/reader base. And getting that is only done through quality readable work.

Editing is a big issue with the self published works. We were actually talking about that last night over in FMchat. Often times people will try to get their work in print faster by going the self published route. By doing so they cut out very important editing and tweaking to make their stories the best they can. Whether you are indi published or "traditionally" published you MUST make sure your work is quality. Otherwise you won't be able to build a readership/a fan base. This lack of editing and impatience in writers just wanting to get their work out is one thing that has given Self publishing such a bad reputation.

Another reason we are calling it Independent Publishing to try to separate from the awful stigma.

Another thought to keep in mind, indi publishing one wip does not make it set in stone that you have to only self publish. As long as the wip has never been published the traditional publishing is still an option.

It is not something to just jump into. As with any publishing possibility do your homework. Locate indi published authors and see what they are selling.

I'd have to double check the rules on linking here to another writing site, is that a no-no? (it is really busy here and I don't have much time on the computer) I could toss out a couple links to Indi publishing boards but I don't want to break the TOS.

That said, I do have a few stories which I more than likely will not try to take to a major/minor publisher. I have doubts about whether they would fit in the mainstream publishing world. More than likely I will go the Indi publishing route with those particular stories. I have other stories which I will try to go the traditional route. But I am comfortable with going BOTH routes. As you can see in the responses not everyone is and that is perfectly fine.

The bottom line, write your story, make it the best you can make it. Then edit it and make it better. Then decide.

/me steps off the soapbox.

I agree with Fruitbat in that unless you have a strong personal reason to self-publish, or have written something essentially unacceptable to publishers, you gain nothing by self-publishing as a first step. May as well try publishers first. It's easier and almost always more profitable on a per hour basis.

Personally, I would never go the self-publishing route. Like stated above, if I can't sell it to either an e-pub or an agent, then it probably isn't good enough (yet).

If you write erotica or erotic romance, your best bet is e-pubs over an agent and traditional pub. If you do a search, you can find out the best erotica e-pubs out there. Check out both the self-pub and e-pub forums for more detailed discussions about this as well.

I've done both. If you're not prepared to market yourself like crazy, forget self publishing. In any case, there are scores of new, small and medium size erotica publishers out there who haven't become entrenched as part of the publishing establishment. They get back to you quicker, they pay quicker, they pay more, and the contracts are less onerous and more negotiable.

Self-publishing isn't the stigma that it once was (and probably never was in erotica). I've had a self-published novel and a handful of stories picked up by my current publisher. In my most recent one, the publisher does only e-books, so I self-published the trade version. Sales and buzz in the e-market have led to sales of the self-pubbed trade book, too, enough to make the effort worthwhile.

It wouldn't hurt to monitor this page from time to time for CFS and publisher data.
http://www.erotica-readers.com/ERA/AR/Erotica_Authors_Resources.htm

necia phoenix said:

/me steps off the soapbox.

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That was a superb summary, and I like the term 'independent publishing' (since its recent use is to denote traditional publishers with under 100 titles or so). At least it avoids the stink of vanity publishing created by the advent of 'self-publishing companies' like AuthorHouse.

I format books for friends for e- or POD-publishing, usually as a favor. Mostly they're books of poetry, or personal journals, which have no hope of making large sales. I also format my own novels for the trade versions, create cover art, and put the result up on lulu.com I usually use lulu.com because it's flexible and you can put up a book for no initial cost.

I think there are still mainstream erotia markest that are more profitable than most epublishers.

I would also say that it is fine to not want to self-publish, but disdainful rhetoric is unecessary. As someone who also has self-published (reprints) I think it can be a perfectly good approach when suitable.

veinglory said:

I think there are still mainstream erotia markest that are more profitable than most epublishers.

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In fact, you can avoid the erotica label entirely, if you do it right. I note Walter Mosley's 'Killing Johnny Fry' which was sold as literary fiction but contained numerous scenes involving adultery, cuckoldry, a Kama Sutra-full of variations, and flying semen everywhere. But since Mosley has a name, and the cover said 'literary fiction', it was in the town library on the open shelves for the unwary to check out.

Even though the subtitle was 'a sexistential novel'.

I hate the term 'traditional publishing', just because vanity presses coined that.

Like all writers, you need to decide what you are striving for. Are you writing for yourself? Do you just want to hold a copy of the story you've written and have a few copies to give friends? Not interested in making a profit, just to be heard?

Then self-publishing would be a good choice. There are many ways to do this, from creating your own e-book and distributing it on a website or blog to utilizing a service like CreateSpace or LuLu. There is no shame in that.

If you wish to create a name for yourself and collect a (possibly large) advance- go after the mainstream dream. There are a lot of great publishers out there that are expanding their erotic markets. Harlequin is one. They offer online workshops, too.

E-publishers are more likely to accept cross-genre or experimental works. Ravenous Romance is a great example. One of the mods here landed a wonderful story in their Hungry For Your Love anthology, all about romance and zombies. Crazy idea, but was put into print by another publisher!

E-publishing with smaller indies may or may not bring a lot in the way of royalties. It depends on their budget and ability to reach a target audience. I'm speaking from experience on this part: my indie press is a very low budget endeavor, mostly a labor of love. We've sold copies of the new releases, but we are not even close to meeting the level of sales of publishers like Ravenous Romance.

You should also talk to others that have been published with your chosen option. Did their self-published book arrive printed properly? Are buyers receiving their copies in a timely manner?
OR
How are they treated by their publisher? Are they left to market their book the same as if they had self-published? Is the publisher upfront concerning sales, fees, and royalties?

There are so many questions I've left out, but the choice is really yours to make based on your vision of where you want to be as an author.

I never considered self-publishing until this year. I didn't want to be one of those writers who wasn't very good and put out a cringe-worthy self-pubbed book. There are too many of those already. I'm very happy I went to an epublisher. There is a lot abut the business I've learned since first sold.

This year I am self-publishing some things. I have a series planned, all short stories, all loosely connected. I believe these are better suited to self-published than my novellas and full lengths. I've got a friend making covers. My avatar is for the first story, a promotional free-read launching in a few days. I've got my usual CP backups. I've got a friend who is an editor giving them a final go-over. I have great faith in my support network. I'll also note that this strong support network helps me produce a very clean copy. I get very minimal revisions from my pub editor.

I would not consider self-published for a first story, a novella or a full-length. It doesn't fit my career plan and I'm not going to get where I want in this business on self-published stories.

Marketing yourself with no publisher backup isn't easy. I'm working to capitalize on publicity from my pub combines with self-pub and self-promo. The two can work together. The trick will be getting the two balanced.

What Voirey said, plus:

My plan was always to e-pub - I write erotic novellas. Traditional publishers aren't exactly tripping over their feet to buy that length. Even Stephen King couldn't sell his until he was A) famous, and B) willing to bundle four of them into a book.

But I also have a list of publishers to whom I'll submit novella length work, and I won't drop below that tier. I watch sales numbers and author comments pretty closely. Any place where the author is bragging about double digit sales...over a year...is not for me. (Do the math. That writer is working for pennies an hour. Dandy if it's a hobby and brings you joy, but I want this to be my job.)

I'm running a couple experiments with short short fiction (@5K words), and while the results are not final, my tentative conclusion is that I should self-pub that length (the alternatives being attempting to sell to magazines and anthologies). I may only see double digit sales... but I'm okay with those sales levels if I'm keeping all the money. Also, at that length, the cost/benefit analysis says the work involved in uploading a clean copy is worth my while.

Anything over 10K, it stops being worth it to do my own formatting unless the sales hit a certain level - a level I don't think I can reach without marketing my pants off.

KathleenD said:

I'm running a couple experiments with short short fiction (@5K words), and while the results are not final, my tentative conclusion is that I should self-pub that length (the alternatives being attempting to sell to magazines and anthologies).

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Consider that some online publishers use free short fiction to spark the sales of longer works by the same author. Sometimes they're used more generally as giveaways to attract folks to the site.

Since they're freebies, you can also give them away on your writing site. In this case, you can keep track of downloads to see which ones get the best responses (or to check whether your site is attracting eyeballs).

Thank your everyone for all of your useful information!

Mine did. And the hetero 'moments' were far more than momentary.

cmn, Dreamspinner is the only e-pub out there (that I know about) that is strictly m/m. If you subbed to them, they might want that hetero moment.

Most of the other big pubs, Loose ID, Samhain, etc, don't care. As long as it is hot, and a good story, they will take it. I have read quite a few (Scarlett's included) that had gay and het sex.

One story I am currently writing has both...but the opposite of yours. Mostly a m/f relationship, with just one m/m scene.

That is one of the major reasons I would never look at self publishing. I am not a business person. I don't want to worry about have to market the hell out of it, or get my own cover. I like the idea of having an editor to help me through any rough spots in my story, instead or relying on self-editing and maybe some beta's (who might or might not be professionals in the writing business). I just want to write.

Sure, I would promote my books on twitter and facebook and my blog, but other than that, after I am done writing, I don't want to worry about anything other than depositing the checks.

(Of course, take what I say with a grain of salt since I am not published.)

I recently got my rights reverted on the first two erotic romances I had published. I'm considering self-pubbing those (after some major revisions; since they were my first tries, they need work), especially since one of them got a 4-star review last week from a reviewer who was disappointed that the book had gone unavailable. Since the stories have already been published once, and since in the two years since I've built somewhat of a fan base, I think self-pubbing would work.

That said, I doubt I would ever consider self-publishing a story that hadn't been published before.