Am I just weird?

[dragonangel517]

This may not be the right place for this, but I am curious about something and would like to get some honest opinions.

How much is too much detail?

I like detail. I like backstory. Heck, I even like info dumping if it is done right. I always read prologues.

I read all genres and I'm currently trying to write an epic fantasy. Well, fantasy doesn't really describe it, but that is as close as I can come. My WIP has an ensemble cast, with the storyline of the first book focusing on 5 MCs. I am trying--trying being the key word here--to write third person limited.

On my first several go rounds I had the three female MCs as child hood friends(they are adults now) but ran into plotline problems, plus I always ended up info dumping, and not the done right kind. So I have decided on a short prologue, then each of the first three chapters will be from one MC's POV, with them melding in the fourth.

This is where the detail and back story problem come in. Each of the three women will be making a major, life changing decision. They will be, therefore, examining there lives and thinking about the past alot.

From reading the crits and advice on here, I get the impression that most people want the beginning of a book to be action orientated, with just tidbits of info and back story scattered here and there. I am trying to write my WIP as something I would like to read. I almost exclusively read series, no matter the genre. Which means detail and back story at the start, not a great deal of action driven conflict until later on in the story.

So my question is--As a reader, would you honestly toss the book if the beginning was a bit slow in the action department? How far in would you read? I see a lot of crits that say--"You story starts here, not where you started it." That drives me crazy. I will admit, I have read some things where that is a legitimate crit, but usually it seems to me the critter just wants to start at the action sequence. I love Star Wars, but will never read the books. Why? Because the storyline is mostly visual. Light saber fights and space ships in battle bore me on the written page, and I tend to skim over them. But on the screen? I am totally there.

My story line is a bit complex, but not overwhelming. I have described it as a soap opera elsewhere, and I think that puts off some people, but the structure is similar. I want to focus on the relationships, and the details, and have a great storyline too. It's a daunting task, I know, but one I will attempt anyway.

So, am I the only weird person in the world that actually likes back story? Is there an audience for detail driven storyline, combined with action and suspense?

I will write this story regardless, but it would be nice to know I am not the only weirdo out there, lol.:Shrug:

[Chris P]

Yep, you do like detail! :)

First off, you hit it on the head when you said "I am trying to write my WIP as something I would like to read." Therefore, and I imagine you have done this already, read good examples, read bad examples, and incorporate the good in your own style and steer away from the bad.

As to your question, I will give a book about 25% of its page count before I give up on it. Of course, this will be 50% for very short novels, and about 5 or 10% for very long novels. If I'm not hooked by then, forget it. It doesn't have to have action, but it does have to engage me in some way. Some people only give a book a page while others read every word of every book no matter how much they dislike it. Every reader is different.

One problem I run into is I can think I've written a book or a story I would read, but would I really read it? Sometimes I'm too much in love with my own words to see them objectively. That's where a good beta reader comes in. The best betas understand your personal style, write things you want to read, and are detached enough to tell you if it sucks and why.

[butterfly]

Well, if you are weird for liking backstory and info dumps then so am I. Check out the backstory / prologue in Richard Russo's "Empire Falls." It's one of the best I've read.

[dragonangel517]

Thanks Chris and butterfly. I just get so frustrated with crits that tell the writer to cut everything but the action. Time and time again, I have seen commenters basically say " I was bored after the first paragraph." I would hate to think that my WIP would not be given a chance just because I don't have something really exciting happening right off the bat.

[Esopha]

If you're doing something as a conscious stylistic choice, more power to you. You might have to research markets a bit more carefully, to find something that will take your book's style in stride. Good writing, however, trumps everything!

[dragonangel517]

Thanks for the encouragement Esopha. I agree, it has to be good, no matter what the style.

Just to clarify, I am not attempting to write something in a weird style. My MC's will not be doing anything exciting right off the bat, in the first paragraph,is all I am saying. I guess what I am trying to figure out is if there are people out there that can enjoy a story with slow build up. I don't think my WIP is boring, but if you get antsy if there isn't any action first thing, then it will not be for you. I am looking to see if there are likeminded people on here who can appreiciate a character driven fantasy as opposed to an action driven one.

[mirandashell]

There obviously a market for character-driven stories because there are published examples. It also depends a lot on genre.

And I don't think a story always has to start with action. It has to start with something interesting. And if that is character detail, that's all to good. I don't always want to be dropped into a car chase or a bank robbery or a passionate love scene.

But there's the catch, the start has to be interesting.....

[Polenth]

I'm with mirandashell. It doesn't have to start with action, but it has to start with something interesting. Often people end up starting with something useful that'll become interesting in six chapters time, but isn't interesting in this chapter.

[richcapo]

Depends on the amount of detail. If it's Pynchon-esque, I probably wouldn't read it. (There can be only one.) If it's Tom Robbins -- detailed, but not to the Gravity's Rainbow degree -- I'd give it a concerted go as long as I find its premise interesting and its style keen.

_Richard

[Dawnstorm]

Put into the story what you think belongs there, and put it where it's most effective. Sometimes postponing backstory makes readers more interested in it (maybe they've been wondering why character A does A all the time, for example). Also, it depends who you're writing for. Thrill seekers will want a fast paced plot. Explores may want to explore the back alleys of your towns, too. Empaths need to tie anything to their favourite characters' (character's) emotions. And so on.

I have a finished first draft that would never pass the action crowd. Fantasy. Third limited. A point-point-of-view change about ever 2500 words (scene length varies). At least 12 recurring point-of-view characters. The occasional by-stander point of view. No clear protagonist. (Two characters do stand out, but if I made them the protagonists, the story would have a vastly different shape.) Subdivided into four parts (not series parts, but book parts), each with its own prologue type excursion. Parts 1 and 3 are named after setting elements and shed light on the world (no direct plot relation, but should help interpreting certain events). Parts 2 and 4 are named after characters, and their prologue is back story (part 2's prologue is also more a setting piece; but part 4's prologue gives you the relevant scenes that started the entire plot). Some scenes may not be plot relevant (could be cut, plotwise), but they're important to display different points of view. An example:

The story's set in a world where magic is fading. The two major powers who relied on magic - in this corner of the world - are, mages and priests (there's background pagan witchcraft, which is not much of a factor in the story), where mages have utility magic, and priests have healing magic. With magic dying, a third class rises to power, basically science - most prominently represented by surgeons. But they do icky stuff to bodies (like cutting them open) and they practice on corpses, so they're not well liked, even though they're pretty necessary these days. (People nickname them "necromancers", 'cause they experiment with corpses.) One scene shows a mage and a physician in a musuem looking at a dragon skeleton. The mage wonders whether such a thing as a dragon has ever existed, while the physician points out that the beast couldn't possibly have flown with those wings, and that only insects have wings on their backs... stuff like that. The museum, incidently, has what it claims is amber stones that have pixies inside - the chapter is titled "Nine Pixies in Amber" ;) The dragon-bones-in-the-museum scene is totally expendable plotwise - it expands on characters you've met before, it sheds light on dominant ways seeing the world, on social dynamics (both the mage and physician are outsiders within their own faction, so they immediately get along)... All this could easily be brought up in other scenes. But I want to take my time. I want to develope the world in non-vital scenes. This is not a book for picking a character to root for and hasting through the plot. I'd have focussed on two characters, and made the rest side characters, and simplified the ending. The books designed so that you'll find it hard to pick sides and see no good solutions to a problem. But to do that, you must practically live in the world.

I've got a lot of editing to do (and the book's been on hold for two/three years, now - personal, non-writing-related issues), mostly because the setting is more conventional and less developed in the first half. (Halfway through the writing I realised I've set this thing on an island group, rather than on a continent as I'd thought; also the priests have lost their god - they used to be monotheists, but now they're the monotheist equivalent of ancestorworshipers [which helps metaphorically with the main event, too]... Lots of editing to do.)

If anyone reads this book from start to finish, they're not looking for a quick read or an exciting plot. I do hope the plot isn't half bad, but the book isn't designed to highlight the plot. It's highlighting social relations. If anyone cares, here's (http://www.sffworld.com/community/story/4054p0.html) a short story in the same setting, but roughly 200-300 years in the current WiP's past.

[Splendad]

Yeah, you're weird. :)

[dragonangel517]

Thanks everyone, I feel better about my WIP now. Dawnstar, I really want to read your WIP, it sounds just like what I am trying to write--style wise, not plot wise. Splendad, pffffffft.

[Snowstorm]

Depends on the amount of backstory or description. I like enough backstory or description (read: not too much to disrupt the flow of the story). I set aside my latest novel because when the author introduced one minor character, he went into this fit of description. One description lasted an entire page--and the pages were small print. Yeesh. I skimmed through the book and put it back on the shelf.

[dragonangel517]

I hear ya Snowstorm, I hate that myself. But I like enough detail that I can get a clear picture of the character and setting. I hate finding out later on that everything I pictured was totally wrong.

[Canotila]

Personally I can enjoy something beginning with backstory and description if I care about the character, and there's conflict.

Conflict doesn't mean they're tearing down the road in a high speed police chase. That can absolutely be boring as well if I don't care about the folks in the car.

If there's anything the character wants, and something is in the way, that's plenty for me to go on. Especially if the writing is good. It could be the character wants to sleep but they're up late with a colicky baby. Or it's low tide and they're trying to collect enough shellfish for dinner before the water comes back in. A really good writer can weave an awful of lot backstory into scenes that also show us more about the characters. Enough to make us care about them.

[MJNL]

Canotila hit it on the head for me--back story is great if I care. I need a reason to care, which usually means I need to be introduced to the character and their problem. I need to be invested in the MC solving the problem. I have to want them to succeed.

If the first several pages are all about the MC staring at her shoes while she reminisces about the carefree days of her childhood I will put the book back on the shelf. Why? Because I don't care about the carefree childhood of a random stranger. I need to know why I'm staring at this girl at this moment. It must be important, or else the author wouldn't be writing about it, right? So show me why--what drives her? What bothers her? Why should I care about her back story? That's what'll make me need to read the book.

Hope that made some sense and was at least a bit helpful :)

ETA: I don't think there's such a thing as a "good info-dump." That'd just be called "info." An info-dump takes the reader out of the story's flow--like a breaking news report. "We interrupt this novel to bring you the unintegrated story of how this random piece of technology came to be..."

[dragonangel517]

Thanks canotila and mjnl, your comments give me food for thought. The prologue I have in mind takes place in an entirely different place and time, but it gives the reader a bit of backstory that will help you understand some things about the MC's place in the "Grand Scheme of Things." It also introduces several characters that won't be seen again for awhile. That is one of my main worries with using a prologue, that the reader will get confused or mad because I switch to my MC in the first chapter. I think if I do it right though(thats the real kicker) it will make the reader curious about the MC, and give them reason to read on. There is also a tiny bit of world building I can do in the prologue too, to avoid info dumping later on. I saw this done in a book I read, and liked it.

I know my original post sound like I just want to write introspective navel gazing,coupled with purple prose, but that is not the case. My characters will have plenty to do, and there is lots of conflict. And later on, there is lots of action. But because of the plot of my story, the MC's decisions will not be believable if the reader does not know the reasons behind them. So a bit of backstory is necessary in the beginning. I am not talking about her whole lifestory, but just a few pertinent events.

Hope that makes sense.