ASIM pre-slushing workshop [Archive] - Absolute Write Water Cooler

alexshvartsman

01-21-2011, 08:12 AM

Found this today and thought it might be of interest to some of the folks here. Andromeda Spaceways is offering a workshop for your SF/F short fiction (or at least the first 300 words of it), to take place in early March. Their editors will read the first page of your story (and in some cases the while story) and offer feedback/critique.

Here are the details:

http://pattyjansen.wordpress.com/2011/01/18/andromeda-spaceways-inflight-magazine-pre-slushing-workshop/

AnnieColleen

01-21-2011, 09:18 AM

Cool, thanks for the heads-up. :)

icenine

03-05-2011, 05:39 AM

Asim has a rotten slush process. Many of their readers are semi-literate. I've had several rejections from Asim and whilst I'm not one of those writers who complains about rejection (it's a fact of life and you deal with it) I take exception to Asim's slush readers. On both occassions of rejection from Asim, the note from the reader was poorly spelled/written. When you get a rejection like that you just know you are dealing with unprofessionals unfit to judge your work. May I suggest instead of a fiction workshop from Asim, an English workshop for their slush readers.

alexshvartsman

03-05-2011, 09:48 AM

While everyone's experiences may differ, I think that ASIM's track record for publishing quality fiction speaks for itself.

Upon reading your comment I pulled up my own two first-round rejections from ASIM. Both were very brief, but to the point, and helpful in explaining why they passed on those subs. They are definitely a market I will keep submitting to.

AlwaysJuly

03-05-2011, 07:08 PM

This looks neat - I'm definitely going to sub something that week.

Dragonquester

03-08-2011, 08:59 AM

Hi. Thanks for the news. It looks like a good opportunity

GreenRoom

03-23-2011, 12:56 PM

Looks like this is a go as of a few days ago.

http://pattyjansen.wordpress.com/2011/03/21/the-asim-pre-slush-workshop-now-open/

Nathaniel Katz

03-24-2011, 04:17 AM

I just sent in the first 300 words of my latest story. Looking forward to the comments.

Rufus Leeking

03-24-2011, 05:01 AM

I just sent in the first 300 words of my latest story. Looking forward to the comments.

please calm my paranoia. You posted the work as a comment? It asks for a reply, but I didn't see how to do that.

AnnieColleen

03-24-2011, 05:26 AM

You post it as a comment on a different blog (http://mikandra.livejournal.com/391389.html), linked in the instructions. (Where it says "Post a new comment.")

Rufus Leeking

03-24-2011, 05:34 AM

You post it as a comment on a different blog (http://mikandra.livejournal.com/391389.html), linked in the instructions. (Where it says "Post a new comment.")thanks. that is what i did, but the instructions say "reply" not "comment" so I was have paranoia about whether there isn't some other way to post it.

Nathaniel Katz

03-24-2011, 05:50 AM

Don't worry Rufus, I was worrying about that exact thing for fifteen minutes. I reread both articles three or four times, paranoid that I was going to do something wrong and somehow lose all rights to the story or whatever.

Damian_Rucci

03-24-2011, 06:12 AM

Thanks for the link, I'm going to sub the first part of my new fantasy story :D

Aidan Watson-Morris

03-24-2011, 06:13 AM

I can't decide whether or not to - it's a great idea, but I'm not sure my 300 words are ready.

Nathaniel Katz

03-24-2011, 06:14 AM

Does anyone here regularly read ASIM? I feel like I should check them out after this, and I have heard them mentioned a lot, but an overseas subscription is punishingly expensive.

zanzjan

03-24-2011, 06:38 AM

FWIW, although it's been several years since I've sent them anything, what rejections I got from them were polite, reasonably articulate, and contained useful feedback.

-Suzanne

alexshvartsman

03-24-2011, 07:22 AM

Does anyone here regularly read ASIM? I feel like I should check them out after this, and I have heard them mentioned a lot, but an overseas subscription is punishingly expensive.

You can buy a PDF from their web site instead. I've been meaning to do just that. Unless they are super-mean to my 300 words, that is :)

Nathaniel Katz

03-24-2011, 07:27 AM

True, I'm just not the biggest fan of computer reading. And, when skimming back over my 300, I noticed I left in a redundant sentence. :(

Rufus Leeking

03-25-2011, 05:54 AM

anyone know when/where we check back for the comments?

MJNL

03-25-2011, 06:25 AM

The blog that's in the original post. :)

A couple are already up.

AnnieColleen

03-25-2011, 06:55 AM

#3 is mine. :)

AlwaysJuly

03-26-2011, 02:02 AM

i had a story in before they closed the workshop, so I'm looking forward to seeing what they have to say. I've had 3 form rejections on the story I posted, so hopefully this will give me an idea what I need to do!

Nathaniel Katz

03-26-2011, 05:55 AM

#3 is mine. :)

Good work, I was definitely curious to read on after the snippet (and I promise I was thinking this before I knew who the author was).

alexshvartsman

03-26-2011, 08:23 AM

Patty Jansen was kind enough to mention Absolute Write on her blog as a significant source of traffic to her blog, which is hosting the pre-slushing workshop.

If you haven't yet, I would encourage those of you enjoying the updates to post a quick Thank You in the comments over there:

http://pattyjansen.wordpress.com/

Izz

03-26-2011, 09:42 AM

I've popped over and left a long, rambling comment extolling AWs virtues (as well as thanking her for the workshop). :)

pattyjansen

03-28-2011, 04:51 AM

Thanks, dudes. I am now here, so feel free to ask about ASIM.

GreenRoom

03-28-2011, 04:56 AM

Thanks, dudes. I am now here, so feel free to ask about ASIM.

No current questions about ASIM, but welcome! And thanks for hosting this pre-slush workshop on your blog. I've found it very interesting to see how the many different beginnings break down, and what works and what doesn't.

Izz

03-28-2011, 04:58 AM

:welcome: Patty! Nice to see you, and i'm sure you'll find plenty to like around AW. :)

Sagana

03-28-2011, 07:47 AM

Hi :) I'm trying to learn to write and enjoying your workshop a lot. Thanks for it.

AW is a great place for writers. The best forum I've seen.

MJNL

03-28-2011, 08:16 AM

Hey, Patty, glad to see you here!

Your mini workshop is a great idea, and I know a lot of people (myself included) really appreciate you and the other volunteer editors taking the time to do it.

pattyjansen

03-28-2011, 03:17 PM

Marina,

We sure keep following each other around.

MJNL

03-29-2011, 01:54 AM

Ha ha, yeah. :)

Nathaniel Katz

03-30-2011, 06:29 AM

I was #11 (http://pattyjansen.wordpress.com/2011/03/29/asim-pre-slush-workshop-post-11/) :)

pattyjansen

03-30-2011, 07:06 AM

Eh, it's interesting to find out. When I put these up, they're all faceless stories to me, which is how we get slush as well. One of the accusations often levelled at magazines that big name authors get in just one the strength of their name. Well, not here ;-)

Another one will be up later today.

AlwaysJuly

03-31-2011, 12:57 AM

Another one will be up later today.Yay! That one is mine. I'm number twelve. :) Thanks, Patty!

I really appreciate ASIM taking the time to provide this feedback. As a new writer trying to break into the short story, while I understand why editors often can't provide personal feedback, it's tough not knowing anything about what they saw/didn't see in the story. Reading all the entries has been really helpful (and a lot of fun, to boot).

pattyjansen

03-31-2011, 03:39 AM

I think it's fun, too.

Sadly, though, the reason editors often don't provide feedback is not because they don't have the time to give one or two comments, it's that there are a***holes who will start emailing back abusive responses. We've had some beauties in the cooperative, and since there's about 30 of us, including the slush readers, they get emailed on our in-house bulletin board and we have a good laugh, but when you're at the receiving end of that kind of stuff, you think twice about giving comments.

The writers who have submitted to this project have been excellent. All followed the guidelines and did exactly as we asked.

I think I'll do a redux post at the end which will talk about: it this what slush really looks like?

alexshvartsman

03-31-2011, 04:37 AM

I for one am very curious just how good/bad slush is on average. Must be at least somewhat worse than the entries you've posted so far.

Rufus Leeking

03-31-2011, 04:46 AM

I think I'll do a redux post at the end which will talk about: it this what slush really looks like?

that would be interesting. I'm a lawyer. when you look at stats for a bar exam that say "only 50%" pass what you don't hear is that maybe 30% of the people taking it are doing so for the 10th time and are a built in "certain fail," so the actual odds aren't quite so bad as advertised.

When I see a journal accepts .5% of submissions I always wonder if there isn't 50% or more people that simply cannot write at all.

Rufus Leeking

03-31-2011, 04:55 AM

Polenth

03-31-2011, 05:52 AM

I'm 13- I think I'm good on "show" in normal (literary) stories, but I'm really new to SF- I know how to show how one human feels about another, I don't know how to "show" something that I made up (there are 3 sexes). FWIW soon after 300 words it turns into a bad night out trying to put a date together, and once I've told the basic fictional aspects the rest is more showing what's up- but I get that doesn't matter if people have stopped reading.

any thoughts on "showing" a fiction only you know? maybe it's just something that comes with writing SF for a bit?

I can't say about ASIM specifically (and they don't like my stuff, so my advice might be a bad thing for getting in there). But that disclaimer aside, it's no different to handling things like character backstory. You want to sprinkle it, rather than putting it all at the start.

You say he's trying to put a date together... the fact he's trying to put together a date with two others would be the first sign there might be three sexes. Or if he's going to date a human because dating an alien is kinky, maybe he's looking for one date and muses on how exotically human it is to only date one person at a time. The reader will figure it out as you keep sprinkling in more clues.

alexshvartsman

03-31-2011, 05:59 AM

I am often guilty of using too much exposition in my writing as well.

For me, it sometimes helps to think of the short story as a screenplay. Pretend that you are writing a TV episode rather than a story. You can't have the narrator constantly explaining what's going on. Instead you need to present the entire plot, background and all, through actions and dialogue of your characters. As fiction writers, we get a huge break in that we get to use SOME exposition, but it's important not to overdo it.

This applies to genre and literary fiction equally, I would think.

Rufus Leeking

03-31-2011, 06:51 AM

I can't say about ASIM specifically (and they don't like my stuff, so my advice might be a bad thing for getting in there). But that disclaimer aside, it's no different to handling things like character backstory. You want to sprinkle it, rather than putting it all at the start.

You say he's trying to put a date together... the fact he's trying to put together a date with two others would be the first sign there might be three sexes. Or if he's going to date a human because dating an alien is kinky, maybe he's looking for one date and muses on how exotically human it is to only date one person at a time. The reader will figure it out as you keep sprinkling in more clues.

thanks (to you and the later comment too). I went for a run after posting as I sort of realized the same thing, although not as clearly. I think I had a "this is something odd- SF so it has different rules" filter on.

Thanks to the asim reader and to you both.

zanzjan

03-31-2011, 07:18 AM

I for one am very curious just how good/bad slush is on average.

Google "slushkiller".

-Suzanne

pattyjansen

03-31-2011, 09:14 AM

I for one am very curious just how good/bad slush is on average. Must be at least somewhat worse than the entries you've posted so far.

When you first start reading slush, you're surprised it isn't as bad as you thought it was. The truly illiterate submissions are very rare.

Later, you revise your opinion. Most of it might not be truly bad, but it's not well-crafted either.

It's definitely worse than the workshop entries, and it tends to go in waves. One day you get some really good ones, and the next day makes you want to tear your hair out.

pattyjansen

03-31-2011, 09:18 AM

I'm 13- I think I'm good on "show" in normal (literary) stories, but I'm really new to SF- I know how to show how one human feels about another, I don't know how to "show" something that I made up (there are 3 sexes). FWIW soon after 300 words it turns into a bad night out trying to put a date together, and once I've told the basic fictional aspects the rest is more showing what's up- but I get that doesn't matter if people have stopped reading.

any thoughts on "showing" a fiction only you know? maybe it's just something that comes with writing SF for a bit?

Phew. I thought you meant you were 13 in age. *re-reads* OK, not the case. Phew.

I'm a scientist. The hardest thing for professionals to un-learn is up-front exposition. Fiction writing is not only very unlike academic and legal writing, it is NOTHING LIKE it.

By far the easiest would be to join a crit group. I have some information on crit groups on my blog. I really recommend SF-OWW, even if only the small charge per year keeps most trolls away.

pattyjansen

03-31-2011, 09:20 AM

I can't say about ASIM specifically (and they don't like my stuff, so my advice might be a bad thing for getting in there). But that disclaimer aside, it's no different to handling things like character backstory. You want to sprinkle it, rather than putting it all at the start.

You say he's trying to put a date together... the fact he's trying to put together a date with two others would be the first sign there might be three sexes. Or if he's going to date a human because dating an alien is kinky, maybe he's looking for one date and muses on how exotically human it is to only date one person at a time. The reader will figure it out as you keep sprinkling in more clues.

I hear so many people say 'X magazine doesn't like my stuff', and it's not something you can say, imo. Do you know how many submissions we get? Do you know how many we publish? Calculate your chances. Hint: not good. Every month we reject stories that are good, simply because there is no room for them.

Polenth

03-31-2011, 10:01 AM

I hear so many people say 'X magazine doesn't like my stuff', and it's not something you can say, imo. Do you know how many submissions we get? Do you know how many we publish? Calculate your chances. Hint: not good. Every month we reject stories that are good, simply because there is no room for them.

Compared to personal rejections from other markets, ASIM slush readers react in a much more negative way to my stories. Talking to other writers, I've realised my experience is unusual. The logical conclusion is I'm not writing the sort of thing ASIM wants.

That's not intended as a criticism. Nor does it stop me submitting. But when I'm offering advice, I think it's fair for people to know that. It could be the stylistic thing I've suggested is wrong for the market.

Rufus Leeking

03-31-2011, 09:30 PM

I'm a scientist. The hardest thing for professionals to un-learn is up-front exposition. Fiction writing is not only very unlike academic and legal writing, it is NOTHING LIKE it.

By far the easiest would be to join a crit group. I have some information on crit groups on my blog. I really recommend SF-OWW, even if only the small charge per year keeps most trolls away.I know. I've had stories published.

I get show/tell WRT standard fiction. I never write SF, and in fact the story in question is actually more about how hard dating is when there are 3 sexes, and it kicks in about 301 words, and it isn't "telling". I just reacted to SF by sticking in my "created reality" up front as you read- then I thought about it some more and realized even created reality (i.e.3 sexes) can come in the other way.

I do appreciate your thoughts.

Nathaniel Katz

03-31-2011, 11:44 PM

russetpomme

04-01-2011, 01:48 AM

I've found this whole series (and patty's comments in this thread) incredibly helpful and useful - thanks so much for doing this!

pattyjansen

04-01-2011, 02:46 AM

To pointlessly repeat what everyone else has said, just think of it from the character's perspective and it should come somewhat naturally. If you/an multidimensional alien goes to Italy for the first time, you aren't going to get off the plain, pause and say to yourself: Here, everyone speaks Italian, makes delicious pizza, and has a lax interpretation of train schedules. Instead, you'll run around doing whatever it is you came to do and will only think of those things while realizing you don't speak Italian when ordering your pizza to pass the time before the train comes. And if you replace Italy with Mars and my tired brain with a working one, this example might make some sort of sense for SF.

You would never even know what pizza was. You'd normally eat jelly through a straw and don't have teeth to cut the typical Italian concrete pizza. You'd be horrified that these creatures seem to eat something that's so hard that it injures the inside of your mouth, contains so much salt that you're constantly thirsty and gives you the trots besides.

You really need to get into the character's head and document their experience, not their terminology.

MJNL

04-01-2011, 09:22 AM

Patty, do you want us to claim our stories now that the reviews are finished with, or would you rather author anonymity remain?

pattyjansen

04-01-2011, 01:18 PM

Marina, whatever you want. I don't need to knwo who you were, but if you want to, you can identify yourself. ;-)

MJNL

04-01-2011, 08:05 PM

Mine was #9 :) (<---That is supposed to be a smilie, lol. And this note might not make any sense after steampunk day.)

AnnieColleen

04-02-2011, 03:10 AM

(Uh-oh, are the smilies misbehaving too??)

My story's been submitted & acknowledged. And I have a nice shiny new PDF to read through. :) (I'd been meaning to subscribe, but the workshop pushed it from the realm of 'really ought to do that...' into actually happening.)