Rights to Short Stories

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Chrisla

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I have finished one book (unpublished) and have several ideas for another. However, one problem with publishing the first is that it is difficult in today's market for a new book writer to even get an agent without some kind of writing credentials, especially for mainstream (not genre) fiction.

My plan is to go back to short stories to try to build those credentials. I'm thinking of writing up some of the second novel material as short stories, then incorporating them into the novel later. If I sell those short stories, how soon will the rights revert back to me?

Is this a practical idea?

(It's been many years since I published short fiction, and it's like a new world to me, so consider me a newbie in this area).

Thanks!
 

Chris P

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As far as the rights go, that will depend on the contract you sign with the publication. Many will revert the rights back to you upon publication, others keep them for (say) three months, etc.

As far as it being a good idea...I dunno. I get annoyed when a writer recycles ideas.
 

Ineti

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I have finished one book (unpublished) and have several ideas for another. However, one problem with publishing the first is that it is difficult in today's market for a new book writer to even get an agent without some kind of writing credentials, especially for mainstream (not genre) fiction.

My plan is to go back to short stories to try to build those credentials. I'm thinking of writing up some of the second novel material as short stories, then incorporating them into the novel later. If I sell those short stories, how soon will the rights revert back to me?

Is this a practical idea?

Not really. Short story sales won't hurt, but they won't necessarily help you sell a novel, either. They're two different writing forms, and selling a bunch of short stories is no guarantee that you can write a salable novel. And vice versa--writing a great novel doesn't necessarily mean you can write great short stories.

Plenty of debut writers get published, with and without agents, and with and without short story sales or other credentials.

Write the best novel you can and start submitting it. While you're waiting to hear back, work on the next one. Good luck!
 

izanobu

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Also, if you use ideas to write short stories and then write a novel with some of those ideas, those rights aren't the same at all. You can write a short story, take it as part of your novel, and then publish the novel. The novel is a different body of work. So don't worry too much about it.

Also, short stories will only help you on novel queries if you've sold to top professional markets, (generally) otherwise no editor will care if they haven't heard of the venue.
 

Chrisla

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Plenty of debut writers get published, with and without agents, and with and without short story sales or other credentials.

While that has been true, I think it is rapidly changing, as the publishing houses become more commercial, especially for mainstream (not genre) fiction. I thoroughly research agents who might be interested in my book, and invariably their submission guidelines make it clear that they are interested in writers with credentials and a platform. Both are difficult to attain for new writers. Information I glean from agent blogs tell me that any paid writing credits are useful for inclusion in the query letter. Platform is another story. Blogging is recommended, but I reads that it is being done my so many writers, even that is losing impact.

I'm not really interested in blogging, anyway. If I'm going to write, I want to do it in stories, and anything else I have to say about writing has already been said, many times over. I know I wouldn't maintain it.

All that aside, I thank all of you for your input. I'll definitely rethink using my story material in short stories. I'll find something else to use for those. And, yes, I'll definitely be writing the next book. It's already half-formed in my head, I'm dreaming about it, and thinking of opening lines. It's time.

Thanks, everybody.
 

Stijn Hommes

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You've started with a wrong assumption. While writing credentials can give you a little boost in the submission process, it's wrong to assume that you need any to sell a novel. Just write a great novel. The quality of the novel (and the query letter) is what matters when you start submitting.
 

Jamesaritchie

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I have finished one book (unpublished) and have several ideas for another. However, one problem with publishing the first is that it is difficult in today's market for a new book writer to even get an agent without some kind of writing credentials, especially for mainstream (not genre) fiction.

My plan is to go back to short stories to try to build those credentials. I'm thinking of writing up some of the second novel material as short stories, then incorporating them into the novel later. If I sell those short stories, how soon will the rights revert back to me?

Is this a practical idea?

(It's been many years since I published short fiction, and it's like a new world to me, so consider me a newbie in this area).

Thanks!

It's no harder to find an agent an a publisher without credits now than it ever was. It's much easier, in most ways, simply because it's tougher to get credits now. There used to be hundreds to thousands of short story markets, but those days are largely gone.

All you need to attract a good agent and a publishers is a novel they believe will sell well to the reading public.

Your research is seriously lacking. Credentials and platform are for nonfiction, not fiction. Agents and publishers do want credentials and a platform for nonfiction, but asking for either with fiction is very, very rare.

Here's the thing. Short story sales, good short story sales to the top markets in your field, can help. I sold my first novel largely because I had short story sales to the top markets in the western field, and the other two writers in contention for the single open slot did not. I also made a mystery sale a few years back because I had short story sales to the top mystery magazines.

But I don't think you understand why short story sales help. They help because they're easily ten times as hard to make as a novel sale. A hundred times harder in the top mainstream markets. Only sales to top, well-paying markets help, and you can't just be good to make these sales, you have to be better than the best short story writers in the world. This is how you break in. You're a complete unknown, and each month any good, credit worthy magazine will be able to pick and choose between two dozen big name writers, and a couple of hundred other well-published writers, for, at most, two or three open slots. To beat out all those writers with names, you can't just be good, you must be better.

You have to make the editor say, "Well, I was going to give my last open slot to (Insert big name writer), but this story by an unknown is so good I'm going to tell that big name writer to go fly a kite."

There aren't many credit worthy markets for short stories out there, especially for mainstream stories, and the few that do exist usually receive thousands of submissions each month, including those from darned near every big name writer in the world.

Seriously, think about the credit worthy magazines. Think about where you want to sell short stories. Take a look at the writers who do sell stories there. And the thousands who try and fail on a monthly basis.

And publishers are not becoming more and more commercial. They've always been commercial. In fact, it's the reverse of what you think. Short story sales were far more important in the mainstream genre decades ago than they are now.

But it all comes down to this. Trying to sell short stories to credit worthy markets in order to sell a novel is like trying to learn arithmetic by first learning quantum mechanics. If you go this route, be prepared to write dozens and dozens of short stories, be prepared to receive hundreds of rejections, and still not make a sale. I can't begin to tell you how much "easier" it is to sell a novel than it is to sell a short story to a credit worthy market.

And it has, of course, been a long time since "mainstream" was a particular type of fiction. To publishers, a mainstream novel is any novel the mainstream readers buy, regardless of genre. Stephen King is considered a mainstream writer. So is Dean Koontz. So is Tom Clancy. So is John Grisham.

The only sound reason to write short stories is because you love reading and writing short stories.
 

Chrisla

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Here's where we have to disagree. I love to write. Some of my story ideas are book length, and some are not. Those are my short stories. Perhaps, once I've worked all the short stories out of my head, that will change, but maybe not.
 

Jamesaritchie

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Here's where we have to disagree. I love to write. Some of my story ideas are book length, and some are not. Those are my short stories. Perhaps, once I've worked all the short stories out of my head, that will change, but maybe not.

But do you or don't you love reading and writing short stories? If not, it's a waste of time. Though I believe any idea can be written at any length. Too many very good, and very short, short stories have been turned into very long, and equally good novels, for me to think otherwise. It's what you do with an idea that makes it right for a short story or a novel, not the idea itself.
 

Chrisla

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I started out many years ago with short stories and sold some. I realize the market is much tighter now for those stories; there simply are not that many being published.

I value the imput I get from fellow writers on Absolute Write, and am sometimes dismayed that the weeks and months of research I do by checking agent blogs and interviews and publisher websites is not in agreement with what I read here. But, since you are the writers who are being published, I will assume you are correct.

I'll probably continue to write both books and short stories, simply because I do like to read both, and have some great story ideas that are not book length. I certainly won't be the first writer to do that.

I thank all of you for your comments, and for taking time from your own work to provide some insight. It is much appreciated.
 

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I'm late to toss my two cents worth into the mix but yes, in answer to your original question, it's practical to do both. I do. I've had some moderate success with my short fiction, cracking the national level market a few years ago and managing to get some of my stories included in pro-paying antholgoies.

I have one novel currently out and three more that will be out this year.

I still write short stories though - and sell them.

So far in 2011, I have one story sold for an anthology due out next October.

It's both possible and practical!
 

Chrisla

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Thank you, johnnysannie; I'm glad to know somebody is doing this and doing it successfully.
 

Kate Thornton

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I love to read and write short stories. I do both successfully.
I am working on a novel right now, too - but I wouldn't do either if I didn't love it.

..
 

Chrisla

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Thanks, Kate, for taking time to let me know you do both short stories and novels. I can't imagine it being otherwise. After all, some of our most famous writers did both!
 

jaksen

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Selling one short story to a good, pro-paying magazine is tres difficile, next to impossible, super hard to do. Sometimes I can't believe I've managed to do so a few dozen times...

But if you're going to write a novel, write a novel. If you're truly interested in short stories, write some stories. If your plan is to write short stories, get them published and build up credentials in order to maybe get a novel published...

That's the part I don't get.
 

Chrisla

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Selling one short story to a good, pro-paying magazine is tres difficile, next to impossible, super hard to do. Sometimes I can't believe I've managed to do so a few dozen times...

But if you're going to write a novel, write a novel. If you're truly interested in short stories, write some stories. If your plan is to write short stories, get them published and build up credentials in order to maybe get a novel published...

That's the part I don't get.

And I wish I had saved the web sites of all the agent blogs that advised just that!

Regardless, the book is written and ready to go, and I'm working on several short stories that I wanted to write, anyway, so I'll simply work at publishing all of them and see where it goes.

Thanks for your input.
 
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