Rejection etiquette

smallpresseditor

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All right, so as best as I can tell, this is the proper spot for this post. I'm senior editor at a small publisher, and the worst part of my job is rejecting manuscripts. Lots of the talk on here suggests that writers think editors enjoy sending rejections, but that's quite untrue in my experience. Over the years I've made friends with several other senior-level editors at various publishers, and no one particularly gets a thrill out of it. I remember when I was first given the authority to make rejection decisions; it was terrifying a bit, even though my opinions had been relied on for a long time. Actually sending the letter was a different thing.

And no one likes a rejection letter. In reading through the various threads here and in other forums, and simply from personal experience, the only clear thing is that you can't please everyone. Some folks would rather have a simple "No," while other want a point-by-point breakdown of every fault in the ms. So how to be kind to the writer? Because my goal is not to tell writers that they suck, but to tell them why it didn't work for me, so that maybe they can use some of that input to become better writers.

Sometimes the rejection letter is easy. If a writer clearly hasn't read our submissions guidelines, I let them know that. If the writer has such terrible basic writing skills that the ms is unreadable, I simply suggest having it looked at by someone and let it go. But those cases are extremely rare now that I'm not doing first reads on manuscripts. I do every once in a while, just to keep the backlog restrained, but generally by the time a ms gets to my desk it's already been vouched for by one of the readers and cannot be easily dismissed.

So I've changed my approach to rejection letters. Whether via email or post, I'll write a very short and simple note saying no, thanks, and usually give one or two brief explanations why. I figure that should satisfy some people. But I also make a note that I'm including an attachment which includes excerpts my review notes. I keep a note document for every single submission that I read, and it's usually rather candid, which I do mention. I never include all of my notes (because sometimes they are of the WTF variety, and I've no desire to scar anyone), but the writer will get a very solid understanding of why the piece was rejected and what may need focus in revision or what simply didn't fit for my press.

I'm hoping this is helpful to people, even though I know 99% of people will open up that attachment just out of morbid curiosity, so maybe it won't please the "just say no" folks. Oh well.

Tell me what I can do better. My job isn't to mock/hurt/discourage writers, but to assist. What does the perfect rejection letter look like? Is there such a thing?
 

Uncarved

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I just wanted to say that I would love to get a rejection from you. I'm not a "hold my hand and be kind" author, I want to hear why you said no, no matter WHY you said no.

I'd definitely sub to your press with you having this attitude. But that would of course mean you're working at a press that takes nonfiction;) *pokes, wink, wink, poke*
 

smallpresseditor

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I just wanted to say that I would love to get a rejection from you.

Taken out of contest, that's really funny.

But yeah, the idea is that I know how badly some writers want to know what didn't work. I'm one of those writers. But I also respect that some folks don't really care what a particular person thought, and just want a yes/no.

And my press does accept unsolicited nf, but for the moment I'm choosing to remain anonymous on here, partly because I'm afraid of the deluge of submissions. What are you working on? We don't do self-help, how-to, or instructional stuff.
 

Cybernaught

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Because my goal is not to tell writers that they suck, but to tell them why it didn't work for me, so that maybe they can use some of that input to become better writers.

I'm quite grateful for your post. It's rare to see an editor who has an interest in helping writers improve rather than just focusing on running a publication. It's understandable - it's not an editor's job to help writers, but sometimes putting that little extra passion into the work and inspiring eager writers can certainly make the job more rewarding for you, I'm sure. I commend you for that.

When I edited my college's literary journal, I also found writing the rejection letters the worst part of it. I felt so bad, in fact, that I personalized every single rejection. That was a heck of a lot of work, but it made me feel better about the entire thing.
 

Uncarved

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Taken out of contest, that's really funny.

But yeah, the idea is that I know how badly some writers want to know what didn't work. I'm one of those writers. But I also respect that some folks don't really care what a particular person thought, and just want a yes/no.

And my press does accept unsolicited nf, but for the moment I'm choosing to remain anonymous on here, partly because I'm afraid of the deluge of submissions. What are you working on? We don't do self-help, how-to, or instructional stuff.


alas, I've niche'd myself a notch for the last 15 years or so.
I write books on native gardening. Besides the one I pubbed with Mercer University Press in 2005 (A Georgia Native Plant Guide), currently I may have two more published soon (a GNPG 2nd edition and one on Butterfly Gardening with Southwest Native Plants with Texas Tech University Press). I've got a few proposals I'm shopping around, one is a zippy "101 Native Plants" profile book and the other is one on Texas Native Plants, both with rights cleared pics.

Wow, and I just totally went off on a botanical tangent there.
 

leahzero

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Tell me what I can do better. My job isn't to mock/hurt/discourage writers, but to assist. What does the perfect rejection letter look like? Is there such a thing?

I'm still very new to the querying process, so this is not an experienced, comprehensive response, but...

When I receive MS rejections (which is inevitable), I'd like to know whether the rejection is subjective or technical.

A subjective rejection is one that is not based on any overt technical flaw in the MS, but rather the rejector's taste, personality, unrealized hopes/expectations for the MS, recent sales, phase of the moon, etc. It's something that's out of the author's control to fix.

A technical rejection is one that is based on what the rejector believes are flaws in execution: lack of character development, dangling subplots, pacing problems, prose problems, etc. It's something that is within the author's ability to "fix."

Of course, even "technical" flaws in a manuscript are still down to some degree of subjectivity. One editor may sense pacing problems where another doesn't. But it'd be nice to have a rough idea of whether the reason for rejection is something I can fix or not.
 
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OneWriter

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I just want to say that it's such a nice thing you're doing, so thank you! :)
You'll probably get a bunch of grumpy, ungrateful writers, but I do hope that in the long run it'll pay off and you'll also get a bunch of writers who will improve thanks to your feedback and they'll be the next of your bestsellers! :)
 

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I'm sure the rejection letters are some of the worse part. I'd be constantly paranoid of getting the rejection rebuttal from the author, especially some of the unstable ones I've run into both here and in real life. *fears*

One of the very first rejections I got on a short story was very personalized, where the editor hand-wrote specific comments on what he thought was funny, how he enjoyed the story, but, alas, he wasn't able to use it in the near future and I might be able to get it published sooner somewhere else. I thought all rejections were going to be like that! Oh, to have 100 more rejections like that!
 

Miriel

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I'm still very new to the querying process, so this is not an experienced, comprehensive response, but...

When I receive MS rejections (which is inevitable), I'd like to know whether the rejection is subjective or technical.

A subjective rejection is one that is not based on any overt technical flaw in the MS, but rather the rejector's taste, personality, unrealized hopes/expectations for the MS, recent sales, phase of the moon, etc. It's something that's out of the author's control to fix.

A technical rejection is one that is based on what the rejector believes are flaws in execution: lack of character development, dangling subplots, pacing problems, prose problems, etc. It's something that is within the author's ability to "fix."

Of course, even "technical" flaws in a manuscript are still down to some degree of subjectivity. One editor may sense pacing problems where another doesn't. But it'd be nice to have a rough idea of whether the reason for rejection is something I can fix or not.

There's also the reject that happens because of logistics. I know some writers think it's a myth, but I was on a mag once. Two great zombie stories came in, but the issue could really only take one...one of the authors got a reject.
 

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There's also the reject that happens because of logistics. I know some writers think it's a myth, but I was on a mag once. Two great zombie stories came in, but the issue could really only take one...one of the authors got a reject.

It's definitely not a myth. I've received a few rejections that said, "Great story but we just bought one with a similar theme."
 

PercyBlok

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Isn't rejection just part of the game? Just like loss is part of investing? A thick skin (both writer and editor) is part of the business and can be cultivated by a writer starting with constructive criticism from unbiased readers/writing group. Do most writers do this? No.

I have found that age has a lot to do with how a person handles rejection. Personally, from my experience (both as an editor of university literary mag/judge of writing contest and writer) I have found that most people that take their writing seriously and want to constantly get better, an informed rejection about the "why" is always helpful. Sometimes it is just something that is more press/industry driven (budget, timing of submission, submission guideline etc...) and other times it's just quality driven.

Keeping stock rejections on hand could make this task easier with a response in kind is what I expect (email sub./e-mail rej.), but totally expect a canned rejection in most cases (the realist in me I suppose). A nice detailed rejection should always be accepted as a positive thing by the writer and should only be given if the editor wants to encourage the writer because he/she sees potential and wants to encourage further submission by the writer.

Just my .02
 
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Jamesaritchie

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If you see a future for the writer, the detail helps, what they can do better helps, but you'll never find a rejection that pleases everyone. You won't even find one where other editors will agree with your assessment of the writer's work.

All you can do is the best that you can do, while understanding that anything you tell the writer may be dead wrong, or may get you a nasty response, even if it's right.
 

Barbara R.

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It's really kind of you to offer that feedback. Most agents and editors don't, for several reasons. One is that they rarely read much of a book once they determine it's not for them, and in most cases that's clear from the first page or two, so there's not much they could usefully tell writers. The second is that writers often take a detailed rejection letter as an invitation to respond. Sometimes the response is intended to explain what you, being such a poor reader, obviously failed to understand. The nicer ones are to thank you for your feedback and to offer a new improved version of the book with the problems you noticed fixed. The difficulty there is that many of those fixes are too literal and too limited, like bandaids on the victim of a train wreck. Either way, the door is opened to a correspondence that the editor really doesn't have time for.

In the case of near misses, though, where the writer might actually benefit? You're doing a mitzvah.
 

smallpresseditor

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I'm quite grateful for your post. It's rare to see an editor who has an interest in helping writers improve rather than just focusing on running a publication. It's understandable - it's not an editor's job to help writers, but sometimes putting that little extra passion into the work and inspiring eager writers can certainly make the job more rewarding for you, I'm sure. I commend you for that.

When I edited my college's literary journal, I also found writing the rejection letters the worst part of it. I felt so bad, in fact, that I personalized every single rejection. That was a heck of a lot of work, but it made me feel better about the entire thing.

There's an interesting dynamic here. I think that if you sat down with any individual editor outside of his/her office and work context, and asked them what they wanted out of their job, they'd probably all tell you they want to find that manuscript with great potential and help it reach that potential. I think this desire, this sort of purity, gets tarnished over the years. It's easy to lose sight of it in the hopelessness that is the time commitment and slush pile. Just like it is for authors, I think.

There's a bit of a saying among other writers I know that says if you can write, write; if you can't, edit. And while I don't think that's very fair, I do think it points to a larger problem, which is that some editors (writers themselves or not) tend to project their style onto others' works. And that's a bad, bad thing. When a writer feels he's lost ownership of the work, that's when the editor has failed.
 

smallpresseditor

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alas, I've niche'd myself a notch for the last 15 years or so.
I write books on native gardening. Besides the one I pubbed with Mercer University Press in 2005 (A Georgia Native Plant Guide), currently I may have two more published soon (a GNPG 2nd edition and one on Butterfly Gardening with Southwest Native Plants with Texas Tech University Press). I've got a few proposals I'm shopping around, one is a zippy "101 Native Plants" profile book and the other is one on Texas Native Plants, both with rights cleared pics.

Wow, and I just totally went off on a botanical tangent there.

Well, not every press is for everything. I'm sure there are some fine publishers who specialize in your topic areas or are regional to the subject matter who would find your work a good fit. Good luck!
 

smallpresseditor

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I'm still very new to the querying process, so this is not an experienced, comprehensive response, but...

When I receive MS rejections (which is inevitable), I'd like to know whether the rejection is subjective or technical.

A subjective rejection is one that is not based on any overt technical flaw in the MS, but rather the rejector's taste, personality, unrealized hopes/expectations for the MS, recent sales, phase of the moon, etc. It's something that's out of the author's control to fix.

A technical rejection is one that is based on what the rejector believes are flaws in execution: lack of character development, dangling subplots, pacing problems, prose problems, etc. It's something that is within the author's ability to "fix."

Of course, even "technical" flaws in a manuscript are still down to some degree of subjectivity. One editor may sense pacing problems where another doesn't. But it'd be nice to have a rough idea of whether the reason for rejection is something I can fix or not.

This is an excellent distinction, and while I like to think that it is pretty clear in my notes, I may try to be a bit more pointed about whether it's a taste issue or a structural/technical issue. It's more common for me to reject a ms because of taste, because even a technically flawed manuscript can often be nurtured and helped in the editing process. I tend to take on at least two or three mss a year that need a ton of technical/structural work, and it's because I see so much potential and willingness to work.

Taste isn't the right word. (Neither is phase of the moon, but thanks for the laugh!) Unfortunately there are catalog issues to consider. Example: since we don't specialize in sci-fi, having more than, say, two sci-fi titles a year is just not something we do. And very rarely will we step into hard science fiction or sci-fi/romance. But even in those cases, if a ms is truly great, I'll get in touch with the author and let them know that and ask if I can keep it for a couple of months and reconsider it when I have an opportunity for that type of book in the release schedule. Sometimes an author's okay with this, sometimes not. I don't know if I'd like it.
 

smallpresseditor

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I just want to say that it's such a nice thing you're doing, so thank you! :)
You'll probably get a bunch of grumpy, ungrateful writers, but I do hope that in the long run it'll pay off and you'll also get a bunch of writers who will improve thanks to your feedback and they'll be the next of your bestsellers! :)

I'm hoping one of them will become our first bestseller!
 

smallpresseditor

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I'm sure the rejection letters are some of the worse part. I'd be constantly paranoid of getting the rejection rebuttal from the author, especially some of the unstable ones I've run into both here and in real life. *fears*

One of the very first rejections I got on a short story was very personalized, where the editor hand-wrote specific comments on what he thought was funny, how he enjoyed the story, but, alas, he wasn't able to use it in the near future and I might be able to get it published sooner somewhere else. I thought all rejections were going to be like that! Oh, to have 100 more rejections like that!

Those are the best and worst rejections to write! I love to be encouraging, but sometimes it's just depressing to hear that you came so close, especially if you've been told that 35 times already.

And, yeah, you get some really incredible rebuttals in this business. I understand that there's a need to vent a little, but I'm still trying to figure out how a writer thinks he's helping himself when he tells me I'm an illiterate gorilla for not publishing his ms, and that he's going to be a NYT bestseller, so screw me!

I just think, Great! I'm glad you will be. I hope you make it onto that list. I genuinely do. My rejections aren't personal attacks, so it's weird when writers then them into such.
 

smallpresseditor

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There's also the reject that happens because of logistics. I know some writers think it's a myth, but I was on a mag once. Two great zombie stories came in, but the issue could really only take one...one of the authors got a reject.

Yep, that does happen. When I was editing a journal, this was a much bigger consideration, because there was always the fear that people were going to think we were having a themed issue, or label us as the people who only publish zombie stories, and then all we'd get was zombie stories, etc.

Mostly an irrational fear, but still there. But we also wrote our contracts so that we had flexibility to publish in the upcoming issue or the one after, to give us some wiggle room.

But I never let a great story or ms go if I can help it. I'll ask the writer to let me hold it over, or ask them to resubmit if they don't find a home for it in a few months, etc.
 

smallpresseditor

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A nice detailed rejection should always be accepted as a positive thing by the writer and should only be given if the editor wants to encourage the writer because he/she sees potential and wants to encourage further submission by the writer.

Just my .02

I think that's the key of your response. And I do worry that I'm over-encouraging people. I hope y'all don't kill me for this, but sometimes I don't want to see more work from someone I've rejected. In fact, this is usually the case. I don't mean to be disheartening, but unless I specifically ask for another ms, I expect people not to query again until they have something that has none of the faults of their previous submission. That's why I give the notes from my review, because they're generally pretty clear on what's not working.

And there's one guy who just keeps sending me manuscripts even though they are always rejected by the first readers, and always for the same reasons. I'm going to have to tell him not to waste his time soon. It just sucks having to do that.
 

smallpresseditor

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It's really kind of you to offer that feedback. Most agents and editors don't, for several reasons. One is that they rarely read much of a book once they determine it's not for them, and in most cases that's clear from the first page or two, so there's not much they could usefully tell writers. The second is that writers often take a detailed rejection letter as an invitation to respond. Sometimes the response is intended to explain what you, being such a poor reader, obviously failed to understand. The nicer ones are to thank you for your feedback and to offer a new improved version of the book with the problems you noticed fixed. The difficulty there is that many of those fixes are too literal and too limited, like bandaids on the victim of a train wreck. Either way, the door is opened to a correspondence that the editor really doesn't have time for.

In the case of near misses, though, where the writer might actually benefit? You're doing a mitzvah.

Absolutely agree on all counts. And I should point out that the ones I do this for are the top 10% of submissions or so, the ones that make it past the first readers (and usually the junior editors). So most of these could be classified as near-misses.

I've had a couple pieces come back with cover letters saying "You asked for a revision, here it is!" But I didn't really ask for a revision, just supplied what I thought was flawed about the ms.

And yes, I've gotten into correspondence that I don't have time for. But I don't let it fester anymore; if an author's obviously not going to work out for me, and just wants to pester me, I'll cut them off. Graciously, I hope. But sometimes no just has to mean no.

I could probably work ten less hours per week if I didn't do so much personal correspondence, and maybe over time I'll start to ease up, but I figure my mission in life is to help as best I can, so as long as I have the energy to do it, I should. I have no illusions about fixing the world, but I can at least contribute something, somewhere, to someone.
 

Jamesaritchie

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And there's one guy who just keeps sending me manuscripts even though they are always rejected by the first readers, and always for the same reasons. I'm going to have to tell him not to waste his time soon. It just sucks having to do that.


I have occasionally encountered such writers, but I've also found that the seeming most hopeless case can sometimes, somewhere down the line, truly surprise you.

You can get bad story after bad story after bad story for months, or even years, and then, without warning, a great story from that same writer. It's like something snaps into place, and one day he just gets it, so I've never told a writer to stop submitting.
 

smallpresseditor

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I have occasionally encountered such writers, but I've also found that the seeming most hopeless case can sometimes, somewhere down the line, truly surprise you.

You can get bad story after bad story after bad story for months, or even years, and then, without warning, a great story from that same writer. It's like something snaps into place, and one day he just gets it, so I've never told a writer to stop submitting.

You make a good point. And you remind me of why I do this job. I very rarely tell someone to please stop submitting, and then only because they're abusing the system or being a jerk or something.

This guy, though, it's like he sends the same ms over and over again. (Actually he did once send a previously-rejected ms that didn't appear to be changed. That's how I found out about him.)

But you're probably right.
 

Susan Coffin

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It is so good to hear the point of view from someone who must either accept or reject work. I cannot imagine how difficult your job must sometime be. Thank you so much for sharing your experience.
 

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So I've changed my approach to rejection letters. Whether via email or post, I'll write a very short and simple note saying no, thanks, and usually give one or two brief explanations why. I figure that should satisfy some people. But I also make a note that I'm including an attachment which includes excerpts my review notes. I keep a note document for every single submission that I read, and it's usually rather candid, which I do mention. I never include all of my notes (because sometimes they are of the WTF variety, and I've no desire to scar anyone), but the writer will get a very solid understanding of why the piece was rejected and what may need focus in revision or what simply didn't fit for my press.

I'm hoping this is helpful to people, even though I know 99% of people will open up that attachment just out of morbid curiosity, so maybe it won't please the "just say no" folks. Oh well.

Tell me what I can do better. My job isn't to mock/hurt/discourage writers, but to assist. What does the perfect rejection letter look like? Is there such a thing?

I just wanted to say thank you. I don't think there's a perfect rejection letter, at least not a universally perfect one. As you've pointed out, some writers want a flat "no" while others would appreciate more detail. You can't please everyone (and that can be said for all aspects of life!) :)

The fact you're willing to offer an explanation and care enough to help writers improve and realize their dreams is well, incredible. Incredibly generous and incredibly thoughtful. That, to me, is going above and beyond the call of duty in many respects.

I'm sure even in some small way you're helping those who respond negatively, even the guy who believes you're an "illiterate gorilla" and the guy who continually sends you "the same MS"--one of these days, they'll see the light. ;)

Cheers!