Using Music in Memoir

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Lantern Jack

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I was recently approached by a lit agent about a memoir after publishing my first personal essay in a major magazine (at long, long last:hooray:). The memoir is a story of how a neurotic, asocial obsessive-compulsive (myself) moved to a big city far, far away from everything he knew to be with a girl who's his exact opposite (this board's Celia Cyanide). I've written out the outline and was just diving into the BIGGER outline, when something occurred to me: Celia and I define ourselves through pop culture, the music and movies we listen to, the comic books we read. I wrote out a chapter or two and saw that our love of all things pop is both an integral part of our relationship and our personalities, to the point that leaving it out would be a huge detriment. I may not even want to write it at all, that's how deeply I enjoyed the mixing of pop and personal. I just really, really love how it all synchs together.

My dilemma is this: In order to make this work, I'll have to quote many full lyrics for songs, dialogue from movie and books, etc. What if I can't permission from the original artists to use any of this stuff (I'll be carefully attributing, so nobody will get the impression I came up with any of this stuff). I mean, if I fill up my memoir with songs and cinema, then find that I have to rip all of that out, it'll destroy what I've got going, and the groove I've got going is pretty damned crunchy!

My question is this: Should I just keep everything in there, write the memoir the way I feel it needs to be written and, when the time comes, let the publishers and editors worry about the legalia? Or should I not even bother in the first place, play it timid and tell a neutered love tale?

I figure I'd ask this before I really delved into this. I have Monday off and I'd really like to dive into this head first, but I thought I'd run it by you guys first, since you're all so insanely awesome!

Now, if you'll kindly ex-squeeze me, I'm going to indulge both my loves of pop culture and soy-based food products.

Thanks in advance!
 

5YOL

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tell a neutered love tale?

ugh. Who wants to read that? Everyone memoir-y generally says, write it and then sort it out. I can envision what you are saying... I think it sounds cool and can't imagine that there will be a problem getting permission later if the story is good enough (which it sounds like it is and will be). It will be a a kick-ass story if it is written with YOUR voice, which includes the lyrics and pop-cultury kind of stuff. Will it be the same kick-ass story if you neuter it from jump?
 

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Write it up exactly as you want BUT:

Track it carefully, obsessively, as if you were footnoting an academic essay.

I'd probably write it with footnotes, change them to End Notes, and submit it that way, honestly, or maybe cut, copy and paste the Endnotes as a separate document to include as a submission.

The publishers may say "NO you can't quote them!" in which case you can allude to the song/band/book/comic, they may say "We'll pay for these, but THESE? Too much money. Cut /allude"

Or another alternative completely.

I suspect, honestly, that more than some of what you'd refer to/quote would be indie, and possibly, affordable/free in terms of licensing.
 

Susan Coffin

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Jack,

You and Celia, huh? That's adorable. ;):D

I think your story sounds very interesting. I have not been in this situation, so I'll share my opinion only.

I would keep writing but also work on getting permission to use the lyrics, quips from books, and lines from movies. If you get a no, then you would have to remove that part. If you get a yes, then you're good to go while giving credit to the authors of the work.

It would be a shame to submit such a work without trying to get the proper permissions, only to have the agent ask if you have even tried. I think it's up to us to do all of the work before we submit to the agent.
 

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It would be a shame to submit such a work without trying to get the proper permissions, only to have the agent ask if you have even tried. I think it's up to us to do all of the work before we submit to the agent.

This is terrible advice.

When you license rights one of the first questions you'll get is about geography (North American? EU? Worldwide) then about format (Hardcover? Trade ? Mass market?) and most importantly, what your print run will be.

You won't know the answers to any of that until you have a contract, and honestly, the average writer isn't really suited for licensing IP.

Plus, knowing who to contact for rights—especially with music—requires a great deal of knowledge as well.

Just keep really good records, and be prepared to revise around not using the lyrics, etc.
 

Susan Coffin

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This is terrible advice.

When you license rights one of the first questions you'll get is about geography (North American? EU? Worldwide) then about format (Hardcover? Trade ? Mass market?) and most importantly, what your print run will be.

You won't know the answers to any of that until you have a contract, and honestly, the average writer isn't really suited for licensing IP.

Plus, knowing who to contact for rights—especially with music—requires a great deal of knowledge as well.

Just keep really good records, and be prepared to revise around not using the lyrics, etc.

Lisa,

No offense intended, but saying my advice is terrible is a little harsh.

Why would anyone write a book using lyrics, movie quips, etc., submit it without trying to obtain permission, and then let the agent tell them whether they can use said parts? From what I've been reading, it seems common knowledge that some kind of permissions need to be obtained for the use of other authors' work. It seems to me the agent would either reject or say the writer could not use lyrics, movie quips, etc. Then, the writer has to go back and change those parts of the book.

Part of writing is research for me is learning about how to obtain rights for lyrics and for movie and book portions would fall under research. A google search for "how to obtain music rights" brought up some interesting resources.
 

Terie

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No offense intended, but saying my advice is terrible is a little harsh.

This is a natural hazard when you give 'advice' based on something you don't actually know to be fact. Giving an uninformed opinion and calling it 'advice' is generally not a good idea.

Why would anyone write a book using lyrics, movie quips, etc., submit it without trying to obtain permission, and then let the agent tell them whether they can use said parts?

The answer is right here:

When you license rights one of the first questions you'll get is about geography (North American? EU? Worldwide) then about format (Hardcover? Trade ? Mass market?) and most importantly, what your print run will be.

You won't know the answers to any of that until you have a contract, and honestly, the average writer isn't really suited for licensing IP.

Plus, knowing who to contact for rights—especially with music—requires a great deal of knowledge as well.
 

Lantern Jack

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People, please! Let's not squabble. This isn't a Newsvine comment thread, after all. We're writers, so let us choose our words carefully, because words, contrary to the old childhood chestnut, can hurt.

That being said, Medievalist, in answer to your question, this is a North American book, though my "borrowings" will be from all over the world--Japan, Sweden, the jolly UK.

This will also be a work of--technically--creative non-fiction, as I want to write this out novelistically. In my experience, without an outline, things fall apart quickly, and the best way to outline is to write a screenplay, for which I have (shelving modesty for a moment) ample experience. I want the novel to have a feel like a true-life romantic comedy, in the vein of "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" or "The Science of Sleep". Therefore, the psyche, the internal dreamscape of myself and CC are essential, and they are populated, like the closets of the Fab Four in "Yellow Submarine," with all manner of pop deities. Miyazaki, Blur, Thomas Alfredson--these guys are all characters in the story, as real as anyone else to me.

Basically, I just want to write the damn thing and send it out, let the heavies worry about the heavy matters. And, honestly, the answer I'm hoping for is: Don't worry about the legal tape, pen the sucker and let the people with the big salaries worry about the legal tape. However, if you feel this isn't likely, please, please just frankly tell me so and I'll try to think of something else, although this will basically tear the heart out of my little Frankenstein monster.

Again, thank you, Sarah, and thank you, Medievalist, for your proffered opinions.
 

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And, honestly, the answer I'm hoping for is: Don't worry about the legal tape, pen the sucker and let the people with the big salaries worry about the legal tape. However, if you feel this isn't likely, please, please just frankly tell me so and I'll try to think of something else, although this will basically tear the heart out of my little Frankenstein monster.[/SIZE]]

Let me give you an example.

Including four lines of a lyric by Gordon Lightfoot in a non-fictional book about Canada and the maritime would have cost the publisher $4800.00

They declined to use the quote.

A similar quotation from a song by Stan Rogers was $250.00.

I'd write it and try not to be so referential that lose your reader. Ask yourself "Is this necessary?"

And I'd track it carefully, keeping a least a list of what you quote in each chapter, and where it's from.

In some cases, the publisher has someone else do the licensing (like me). Sometimes they have a person on staff, or the editor does it.

Sometimes they provide the author with a boiler plate letter of request.

If there are a lot, the fees may come out of your advance.
 
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Lantern Jack

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Thank you very much, good Sir! An honest and knowledgable answer. You've certainly given me some interesting perspective to chew over.

Thanks again!

Question answered, now I must exercise my own free will and choose.

Sigh! I hate being human sometimes:tongue
 

Susan Coffin

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Lisa and Terie, point taken, even though I would want to find out as much as I could about the subject matter--and I just learned something new. :D

Jack, nobody is squabbling here. I think your book sounds very intersting. I think you received the answer you wanted from Lisa and Terie.
 
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