Featuring yourself in the story (NOT Mary Sue situations)

Darzian · Jan 6, 2011

I've come across two books where the writer features himself as a character in the story: Stephen King in The Dark Tower and Wilbur Smith in The Seventh Scroll. In The Dark Tower, King features himself as a character who actually interacts with other characters. What do you think of this type of writing? Would you do it? Why or why not?

Personally, every time the scene involved the character, I was pulled out of the story and back to reality. I would avoid such a thing as it interfered with my reading.

Note that I'm not talking about Mary Sues- I'm talking about a character carrying the same name as the author. In both books above, there are obvious references to the writer-character being the actual writer.

ETA: Meant it for the Round Table. Mods port please?

SPMiller · Jan 6, 2011

"Good evening, Lord Corwin," said the lean, cadaverous figure who rested against a storage rack, smoking his pipe, grinning around it.

"Good evening, Roger. How are things in the nether world?"

"A rat, a bat, a spider. Nothing much else astir. Peaceful."

"You enjoy this duty?"

He nodded.

"I am writing a philosophical romance shot through with elements of horror and morbidity. I work on those parts down here."

Soccer Mom · Jan 6, 2011

Never put myself in one of my stories, but I always name a character Fred after the world's greatest dog.

Stlight · Jan 6, 2011

I haven't done it, or even thought of doing it. I doubt I will because I think it might help me across a reality line that I don't want to cross.

Of course the above was far from a strong statement and lines of reality are constantly shifting, but I'm still holding onto no.

Jamesaritchie · Jan 6, 2011

Darzian said:
I've come across two books where the writer features himself as a character in the story: Stephen King in The Dark Tower and Wilbur Smith in The Seventh Scroll. In The Dark Tower, King features himself as a character who actually interacts with other characters. What do you think of this type of writing? Would you do it? Why or why not?

Personally, every time the scene involved the character, I was pulled out of the story and back to reality. I would avoid such a thing as it interfered with my reading.

Note that I'm not talking about Mary Sues- I'm talking about a character carrying the same name as the author. In both books above, there are obvious references to the writer-character being the actual writer.

ETA: Meant it for the Round Table. Mods port please?

Writers have been doing this for centuries. It doesn't pull me back to reality, it makes the book seem considerably realer. Hell, the book has real people in it. It has to be real. I guess I wonder why it bothers you that the writer is in the book, but it doesn't bother you when other real people are in it?

Books and movies often have real people as characters. For most, this makes them seem truer, more like the real world.

At any rate, it's a very old tradition. I've done it a couple of times, and they proved to be my most popular stories.

Whistle_White · Jan 6, 2011

Agreed - this has been done over and over, and it's not necessarily a bad thing. Miguel de Unamuno did it in Niebla (Mist), which was published in 1914. in it, a character of his own book goes searching for him and begs him not to kill him and give him a happy ending.

He doesn't, by the way. Unamuno understood that stories needed to be completed in spite of the characters' suffering =P

Paul Auster has done it, as well. I don't remember if it's in Ghosts or The Locked Room, hell, it might be in City of Glass. But one of the characters goes to meet an author named Paul Auster, who keeps appearing throughout the book to give very small leads.

Inserting the author as a character is a mark of a postmodernist, maybe. It's not something easy to pull, I guess, but it can be done.

JimmyB27 · Jan 7, 2011

I've just finished Song of Susannah the (first?) book in which King appears as a character. I was dreading it when I heard about it, but it did turn out rather well, so I was relieved. However, I suspect it would be very easy to do it badly and I'd likely be just as apprehensive about reading another book featuring its own author.

Momento Mori · Jan 7, 2011

J. M. Coetzee did it in Summertime and I seem to think it was nominated for a series of awards including the Booker.

It all depends on how it's done and why the author's doing it. If it's the author being a wanker then that's usually obvious and it rips me out of the story. If they're doing it to make a point or lampoon themselves and it's consistent with the story and its themes then I don't have a problem with it.

MM

Linda Adams · Jan 7, 2011

Clive Cussler's done it, too. First time, it didn't bother me because it was a fun surprise. He also made fun of himself with the tone of the book. But in the next book, when he did it again, it didn't have the same impact because I'd already seen it before.

Theo81 · Jan 7, 2011

If they're doing it to make a point or lampoon themselves and it's consistent with the story and its themes then I don't have a problem with it.

Douglas Coupland did it brilliantly in Ipod for that very reason (and I can't say more without wrecking stuff). Go and read Ipod; it's marvellous!

Also, there was somebody last year who published a novel in which the main or secondary character had the same name as the author, but I cannot remember who it was. I want to say their name begins with a J.

I'd like to do it, but if I did it would be in a satirical way, so it would only happen if I thought I could do it effectively.

Marlys · Jan 7, 2011

SPMiller said:
"Good evening, Lord Corwin," said the lean, cadaverous figure who rested against a storage rack, smoking his pipe, grinning around it.

"Good evening, Roger. How are things in the nether world?"

"A rat, a bat, a spider. Nothing much else astir. Peaceful."

"You enjoy this duty?"

He nodded.

"I am writing a philosophical romance shot through with elements of horror and morbidity. I work on those parts down here."

I absolutely loved it when Zelazny did this.

JimmyB27 · Jan 7, 2011

Theo81 said:
Douglas Coupland did it brilliantly in Ipod for that very reason (and I can't say more without wrecking stuff). Go and read Ipod; it's marvellous!

That's JPod. iPod is the music player.

Darzian · Jan 7, 2011

Jamesaritchie said:
I guess I wonder why it bothers you that the writer is in the book, but it doesn't bother you when other real people are in it?

True- I've never thought about it twice when other real people are in it. I guess its because I've always thought that the writer is "behind the scenes." And I didn't realize this had been done in so many novels!

JimmyB27 · Jan 7, 2011

Jamesaritchie said:
I guess I wonder why it bothers you that the writer is in the book, but it doesn't bother you when other real people are in it?

I wouldn't say it bothers me per se, but there's a lot more opportunity for it to feel forced and self-indulgent rather than an integral and necessary part of the story. That can be true for other real people too - I read just recently in another thread about a book set in the Second World War that had loads of historical figures popping up all over the place - but I think there's usually less reason for an author to turn up in a story.
If you're writing a series like Berard Cornwell's Sharpe novels, who else but Sir Arthur Wellesley is going to be leading the British army through the Peninsular War? I don't think the same generally holds true for the author. King's shot at it works well, imho, but I think it's one of a minority of situations where the author is necessary for the story.

rainsmom · Jan 7, 2011

I've never done it, and I've read enough truly horrible fan fiction where the writers did that that the idea leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

That said, I don't dispute that it can be done successfully, and I won't draw a line and say I'll never do it. I think, though, the only way I would do it is if I set a novel where I lived and the novel also included a lot of other cameos of real locals.

willietheshakes · Jan 7, 2011

I'm a big King fan. I adore him, and his work. He's been one of my inspirations since before I picked up a pen.

And when I think of his presence in the last couple of the Dark Tower books, and what happened with that series, I want to kick him in the nuts. Hard.

eyeblink · Jan 7, 2011

J.G. Ballard is the central character of his own novel Crash.

In Joyce Carol Oates's Them, one of the protagonists has a college Literature class with Joyce Carol Oates.

I did this myself in a short story.

aruna · Jan 8, 2011

Somerset Maugham did it in The Razor's Edge, though he never actually names himself. But he is the narrator, speaking with the "I" voice, interacting with the main character Larry Darrel and telling Larry's story and expecially, his trip to India. In fact, Larry's India trip is hugely autobiographical, and based on Mauagham's own trip to India. I guess this was Maugham's way of telling his own story without writing a memoir. It's a great book, and the device in no way took me out of the story. In fact, it seemed very real to me as I had been to the same place and recognised it despite the changes Maugham had made.

Priene · Jan 8, 2011

Martin Amis did it in Money, and did it well enough. The book would have been equally good without him, though.

jaksen · Jan 8, 2011

I did this in one short story. My MC, a teenaged boy, has to go to a school to speak to a science teacher. He needs to get some info from her re. a possible murder. He walks into her classroom (after school hours) and the teacher is me. (I'm a retired science teacher.)

I let the scene unfold as it wanted to, and guess what? My MC and the me (the teacher) did NOT like each other at all. There was this immediate antagonism and hostility between the two. I really didn't expect it because I write the MC in first person. I had always figured it would be like me meeting me.

It wasn't.

Valerie J. Long · Jan 8, 2011

The reader needn't even notice it. You have a character that's appearing in just one chapter or so, and either is named like the author in Real Life (that is, not after the pen name) or shares some of the author's behaviour.

Worst thing I did so far - wrote two books all around a character with the same name as me (my pen name). So there's no back and forth to pull readers out of the story, and as I've made up my pen name and avatar anyway, why not use it? Of course the story is first person narrative.

What do you think about that?

profen4 · Jan 8, 2011

Linda Adams said:
Clive Cussler's done it, too. First time, it didn't bother me because it was a fun surprise. He also made fun of himself with the tone of the book. But in the next book, when he did it again, it didn't have the same impact because I'd already seen it before.

Just hitting this b/c I just read my first Clive Cussler book. Plauge Ship. I love this guy! okay - that was my divergence. Back on topic people!

Jamesaritchie · Jan 8, 2011

willietheshakes said:
I'm a big King fan. I adore him, and his work. He's been one of my inspirations since before I picked up a pen.

And when I think of his presence in the last couple of the Dark Tower books, and what happened with that series, I want to kick him in the nuts. Hard.

Why? That was one of the best series ever written, and ended even better than it started.

Jamesaritchie · Jan 8, 2011

rainsmom said:
I've never done it, and I've read enough truly horrible fan fiction where the writers did that that the idea leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

That said, I don't dispute that it can be done successfully, and I won't draw a line and say I'll never do it. I think, though, the only way I would do it is if I set a novel where I lived and the novel also included a lot of other cameos of real locals.

Well, all the fan fiction I've tried to read leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Not exactly the best writers, for the most part.

JimmyB27 · Jan 8, 2011

willietheshakes said:
I'm a big King fan. I adore him, and his work. He's been one of my inspirations since before I picked up a pen.

And when I think of his presence in the last couple of the Dark Tower books, and what happened with that series, I want to kick him in the nuts. Hard.

Jamesaritchie said:
Why? That was one of the best series ever written, and ended even better than it started.

I've just finished Song of Susannah, and am about to start the final book. I really enjoyed SoS, so I hope James is right in this case.

Featuring yourself in the story (NOT Mary Sue situations)

To-to-to-ron-to

Prodigiously Hanged

Crypto-fascist

ideas are floating where they will

Young folk

Hoopy frood

Tired and Disillusioned

Soldier, Storyteller

Resist. Love. Go outside.

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To-to-to-ron-to

Hoopy frood

Feeling like an old timer

Gentleman. Scholar. Bastard.

Barbara says hi

On a wing and a prayer

Out to lunch

Caped Codder

New here. Call me "Val"

Hoopy frood