Black Swan (spoilers)

I thought the film worked as a piece of entertainment, but the underlying themes didn't stand up to much scrutiny. Possibly something about the two side of personality.

Obsession.

I liked it well enough, but I'm not enamored with it. There's a lot about it that I didn't think worked, especially the mirror/reflection stuff is pretty overdone when it comes to split personalities, and this was very overhanded. I also think Natalie Portman was good, but maybe her performance was elevated by the material and not the other way around.

SPOILERS!

SPOILERS!




I liked both Portman and Kunis' performances, although I don't think either will win an Oscar for her work in this very interesting film. Oronofsky has managed to make the vague and even the over-the-top mirror images, as well as the deeds that were never done, scary. I enjoyed the sequence where Portman's character (as the Queen/Black Swan) practically turns into a black swan as she dances. She is frightened, yet resigned when she realizes she has stabbed herself in the gut and claims 'perfection' for herself at last. I thought it was nicely done. Bravo!

To quote Walter Chaw, the theme is the bloody life cycle of an artist engaged in the creation of both her art and herself as an artist. And how we the audience want--in our art, our blood sport, our art that is hidden blood sport--our pound of flesh from entertainers and reward them by demanding more.

I don't know about Kunis, but I think Portman will probably win the Oscar. Her only real competition at this point is Bening, for The Kids are Alright. Kidman is also a possible spoiler.

Portman has some stiff competition this year. Kidman seems to be the frontrunner for Rabbit Hole, but I think Portman does have a chance. It helps that she's never won before.

Kidman IS quite amazing in Rabbit Hole, as is the neglected Aaron Eckhart.

As much as I love Ms. Portman (and I do... hmmm, where am I?) I do think there's a great chance that Kidman will win her second Oscar, although Bening could pull an upset since Hollywood loves her.

IDK. Portman's won most of the critics' awards so far (including Chicago and Austin, where Black Swan swept) and Bening won the NYFCC award, I think, and the Women Critics Circle Award. Unless one of them flames out early, which is always possible... *shrugs*

I also assumed we were seeing Lily--both the real Lily and the one Nina's imagining--through Nina's eyes anyway, so, yeah, I'm not sure it was supposed to be consistent.

Just came back... wow! I loved it. It was great. Natalie is amazing. She may actually win an Oscar for this (as much as I liked Bening in The Kids Are All Right, and I haven't seen Rabbit Hole yet).

At first I thought it was split personality, too but now I'm convinced it's actually schizophrenia, and she's had history of self-miltilation. Her "frigid" personality is possibly part of her disorder, as is her paranoia and, of course, delusions. At first we thought her mother was the abusive, possessive one, but then we kind of realize she's protective and she probably knows her daughter has schizophrenia. And I think it's brilliant to mesh that with the theme about being an artist: how you need to let go and embrace your dark side, or how you may get so absorbed in your work that you literally become a different person (actors know what I'm talking about here)... mixed with the "evil twin" and "seduction/betrayal" themes in Swan Lake itself... These are complex themes and I think it's very well done and presented. When Portman performed the Black Swan she took my breath away. That was some powerful performances there. The intercuts between Portman and her dancer body double is seamless.

Certainly a great "man vs. self" story -- if you want to see how to externalize an internal struggle/conflict, this is a good case study.

The mirror motif is a bit overdone and repetitive, but it doesn't distract me from the power of the story.

Exactly! Because when Nina was actually seeing Beth in the second hospital scene, she projected her delusions onto the girl. As we find out that she was actually the one stabbing the woman's face when Nina looks at her bloody hands and realizes she's still holding the nail file. Nina's not a reliable POV, for sure. So even Lily's sexual relationship with the prince could have been an element of the ballet that Nina was projecting.

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Exactly. We don't know what is her delusions or what is real. Was Lily really fucking the director? Probably not. Was Lily groping the Prince? Most likely not. But that's what she is seeing. And she can't tell what is real and what is not. Neither can we. I think that's the point.

I can certainly see and appreciate the work she put into the dancing and movements, and she's very convincing. But you can tell some of the stuff (footwork, etc.) is beyond her skill level (she is, after all, playing the Swan Queen) and the intercutting is superb.

Timmy said:

Did the film have an overall theme?

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maestrowork said:

I can certainly see and appreciate the work she put into the dancing and movements, and she's very convincing. But you can tell some of the stuff (footwork, etc.) is beyond her skill level (she is, after all, playing the Swan Queen) and the intercutting is superb.

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Sarah Lane did much of Portman's footwork. Andrew Weisblum's editing has a good shot at winning the Oscar.

The editing is exceptional.

I loved this film, for many of the reasons sited above, so I'll just add...

I thought the mother/daughter relationship was fascinating and really well-done. It starts out very "normal" with Barbara Hershey appearing to be a sweet and supportive mother and then it descends through many darker shades with her controlling behaviors and morbid paintings (these are partly a projection of Nina's, but my read was there was something odd going on to start). Their relationship made Nina even more sympathetic to me. She has to find a piece of wood to prop her door closed so her mother won't get in. It's a really interesting family dynamic typical of girls who have eating disorders and other compulsive behaviors like self-injury.

Some people detect hints of sexual abuse in the relationship. I haven't... Anyone else?

I just saw it....I'll be back later to say more, but I thought it was amazing. I never knew Swan Lake was such a messed up story.

AyJay said:

I loved this film, for many of the reasons sited above, so I'll just add...

I thought the mother/daughter relationship was fascinating and really well-done. It starts out very "normal" with Barbara Hershey appearing to be a sweet and supportive mother and then it descends through many darker shades with her controlling behaviors and morbid paintings (these are partly a projection of Nina's, but my read was there was something odd going on to start). Their relationship made Nina even more sympathetic to me. She has to find a piece of wood to prop her door closed so her mother won't get in. It's a really interesting family dynamic typical of girls who have eating disorders and other compulsive behaviors like self-injury.

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I feel that the mother (nicely played by Barbara Hershey) knew about her daughter's mental problems and wanted her to stay home so that she could keep an eye on her. Maybe she was a tad jealous of her daughter's limited success, but I think she wanted her to be well. Her daughter saw her as being meddling and preventing her from having a full life, but I think that was just a delusion.

As far as the cake goes, I think that may have stemmed from a feeling that she couldn't help her daughter past a certain point and that she wanted to connect with her however she could. It also may have been part of the mother's jealousy towards her daughter.

maestrowork said:

Exactly. We don't know what is her delusions or what is real. Was Lily really fucking the director? Probably not. Was Lily groping the Prince? Most likely not. But that's what she is seeing. And she can't tell what is real and what is not. Neither can we. I think that's the point.

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This.

I just went to see it earlier today (and am planning to go back and see it again). It's become my second favourite movie of all time. And it inspired the hell out of me.