Blighty

Yep, I've always known it as a slang term for Britain.

Sentosa said:

I have found this definition for Blighty is several sources:
Blighty is an English slang term for Britain

I have also found the definition restricted to England.

It suits my purpose better if I can apply the fist definition.

Any comments?

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Is this for your historical? Keep in mind it isn't recorded until 1915.

If date isn't an issue, for what it's worth the OED gives England, not Britain.

Sentosa said:

Thanks for confirming what I thought.

I'm planning on using a line from "Botany Bay" (or adapting it) as the Title for my WIP -- which is in the planning stages.

Leading candidate at present is: Farewell to Old Blighty Forever.

My MC is Irish, so I have to change "England" to "Blighty".

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I have never, ever heard it applied to Ireland (which is not in Britain).

If you go back a few hundred years, England was a common term used to describe the whole of the UK, which at a certain point in time, did include Ireland.

jvc said:

If you go back a few hundred years, England was a common term used to describe the whole of the UK, which at a certain point in time, did include Ireland.

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No. 'England' is a particular country, and has never been used to include 'Ireland.' Don't mix up political, geographic, and ethnic terms.

The political entity is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Before Irish independence, it was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. The Irish have never considered themselves 'British,' even when they were under British rule. (Northern Ireland is a bit more complicated, as many of the people there are of British descent.)

'Great Britain' is an island. The individual countries on the island of Great Britain are Wales, Scotland, and England. You can refer to English, Welsh, and Scottish people as 'British' because they are all from the island of Great Britain. Call an Irish person British, and you risk a fight.

Hope that helps clear it up.

'England' has only ever been used as another name for Britain or the UK by people who obviously have no knowledge of geography.

Indeed. The specifics of what you said above are correct. However, around the world, hundreds of years ago, an aweful lot of people referred to the UK and all etc, as England. When the name England was used, it was understood that it referred to the whole of Britain and perhaps even Ireland. Not saying it was right for them to do that, just saying that it happened. To be blunt, it still happens today. And it isn't right for anyone to do that. But doesn't stop it from happening.

jvc said:

Indeed. The specifics of what you said above are correct. However, around the world, hundreds of years ago, an aweful lot of people referred to the UK and all etc, as England. When the name England was used, it was understood that it referred to the whole of Britain and perhaps even Ireland. Not saying it was right for them to do that, just saying that it happened. To be blunt, it still happens today. And it isn't right for anyone to do that. But doesn't stop it from happening.

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Using 'England' and meaning 'England, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland' is a good shortcut to show an English character's politics and worldview. When an Englishman says 'England' in this sense in 1745 or 1798 or 1916, we know he is packing a heckofalotta baggage into the term.

Americans, OTOH, can use 'England' without being political. Cluelessness is part of our charm.

I don't see this usage fitting into the mouth of an Irishman or Scot in any time period.

job said:

Using 'England' and meaning 'England, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland' is a good shortcut to show an English character's politics and worldview. When an Englishman says 'England' in this sense in 1745 or 1798 or 1916, we know he is packing a heckofalotta baggage into the term.

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Yep, exactly what I was thinking

Americans, OTOH, can use 'England' without being political. Cluelessness is part of our charm.

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Well, I didn't want to say

I don't see this usage fitting into the mouth of an Irishman or Scot in any time period.

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And, Nope. An Irishman or Scot wouldn't use the term at all.

Sentosa said:

Thanks for confirming what I thought.

I'm planning on using a line from "Botany Bay" (or adapting it) as the Title for my WIP -- which is in the planning stages.

Leading candidate at present is: Farewell to Old Blighty Forever.

My MC is Irish, so I have to change "England" to "Blighty".

Click to expand...

Why not 'Farewell to Old Ireland Forever'? Even someone who's never heard the poem will understand the sentiment, and for those who have, it will have a certain irony. It certainly suggests that the Irish/English relationship will affect your Australian story.

Actually...

I'm with the OED here. Blighty has always meant England. England being England and not the UK.

I don't want to be causing fights at Christmas tide but 'Cluelessness is part of our charm.' Nope! It's just plain rude!

Ignorance is never charming and that attitude is one of the many reasons why Americans are so unpopular. We non-Americans are expected to know and understand American things but you guys make very little effort to know and understand the basic geography and cultural differences in the countries you visit.

How many times a year does Scarlet Peaches correct England to the UK on this board?

I had nearly ten years in Japan watching your JET people, all young graduates, making themselves thoroughly unpopular with their cluelessness.

Marlys said:

No. 'England' is a particular country, and has never been used to include 'Ireland.' Don't mix up political, geographic, and ethnic terms.

The political entity is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Before Irish independence, it was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. The Irish have never considered themselves 'British,' even when they were under British rule. (Northern Ireland is a bit more complicated, as many of the people there are of British descent.)

'Great Britain' is an island. The individual countries on the island of Great Britain are Wales, Scotland, and England. You can refer to English, Welsh, and Scottish people as 'British' because they are all from the island of Great Britain. Call an Irish person British, and you risk a fight.

Hope that helps clear it up.

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Yes, you CAN refer to the people of Wales and Scotland British, but it has much more a political than a geographic implication. You may end up in a fight there, too. Take a look at some recent surveys on the percentage of Scots who consider themselves British--or don't. It has very little to do with geography.

Just to confuse the issue.

This whole British/English/etc issue is interesting..

I call myself British because I'm a bit of a mongrel and because I belong to the whole island, not just where I was born.

One thing I've noticed since I've been back in the UK is in filling out various forms, where there are questions about one's ethnic origin, you can now choose between"

British
English
Welsh
Scots
etc.

I've always thought of Blighty as meaning England, but maybe that's got to do with the fact the only people you hear using the name are lower class "Cor blimey!" English characters in old films.

It's hard to imagine an Irish character thinking of his beloved mother country as Blighty or any other non-Irish term. If he's a poet (and aren't all Irish poets by nature?) then perhaps farewell to the Emerald Isle or the Island of Saints might pass fleetingly through his mind.

I'm Scottish first and foremost but technically I'm also British -- says so on my British Passport! And I don't mind being called British, it's hardly an insult.

-Derek

dpaterso said:

It's hard to imagine an Irish character thinking of his beloved mother country as Blighty or any other non-Irish term. If he's a poet (and aren't all Irish poets by nature?) then perhaps farewell to the Emerald Isle or the Island of Saints might pass fleetingly through his mind.
-Derek

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Love it!

Sometimes threads take on a life of their own after the OP has found the information they need

pdr said:

I don't want to be causing fights at Christmas tide but 'Cluelessness is part of our charm.' Nope! It's just plain rude!

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I keep meaning to add a note under such posts and say -- 'This is irony.' It's always hard to get irony across in a short posting. I should mark it.

pdr said:

Ignorance is never charming and that attitude is one of the many reasons why Americans are so unpopular.

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And it is a great shame that folks worldwide are not more sensitive to ethnic concerns.

Many of my Iranian friends do not like the assumption they are 'Persians'. (Only about half of Iranians are of Fars ethnic origin.) Cantonese-speakers care about the Cantonese/Mandarin controversy. (California stations broadcast both.) Eritreans I know are continually assumed to be 'Ethiopian'. Taiwanese do not universally consider themselves 'Chinese'. Folks of Nawatlaka origin are often not delighted when it is assumed they are Mestizos. Bolivians and Columbians encounter endless folks unclear on the difference between the nations of South America. Quite an amazing number say 'Nigerian' when they obviously mean 'Yoruba'. And I do not have to tell you how a Québécois feels about the assumption Canada is an English-speaking nation.

Now all these folks encountered these assumptions and this general ignorance in England, not the US. I'm particularly aware of European attitudes because I lived there many years.

I've generally found folks to be well informed about ethnic, religious and cultural differences nearby, less informed about what's happening thousands of miles away. This is true for Europeans as well as Americans, for Africans and Canadians, for Japanese and Saudis. I join you in deploring cultural insensitivity. I simply haven't found it a uniquely American trait, but spread rather evenly among the Americans, British, Germans, Japanese . . .

Yes, Job - and of course, to a large majority of Brits, anyone at all from the Indian sub-continent is considered to be a Pakistani.