Starting an epub -- experiences, advice?

[SafetyDance]

If I have no success finding an agent for my current project, I will need a home for it. I have a couple of friends who write similar fiction -- good stuff -- and in a discussion tonight, it occurred to us that starting our own epub for it might be an option.

Now. I have no publishing experience. I used to teach English so I'm not so worried about learning the technical side of editing (the market knowledge is a different matter) but that's about it. I've bought some truly awful ebooks lately...hey, if they can do it...

Any experiences or words of advice? There would be a bucketload of research to be done, and I'd be waiting until my daughter went to school next year (I don't work). There's a possibility of harrassing industry people for some work experience (I live near London), should they take people. A friend of mine used to work for Random House so I could see what she could do.

I wouldn't be going into it to make buckets of money. I should make that clear. I am interested as to what people think it would take to cover the costs, though -- in fact, whether it's likely to cover costs at all. What those costs might be, too.

All comments appreciated, even if they're "oh hell, no." :P

[amyashley]

Just curious. I know little to be of help. Have you tried any of the e-pub agents in the US? I know this one:

http://www.ampichellis.com/aboutus.html

They are new, eager, and I'm pretty sure they are legit.

and I know this agent:

http://saritzahernandez.blogspot.com/?zx=a2ace9079d0691df

She is def. legit and does erotica too, which I know you write some of.


There are some more here, but I do know that one particular e-pub here is doing advances now, I believe.

Sorry to not be helpful on the business aspect.

[veinglory]

Warning, I am not going to be little miss positive here.

There are about 100-200 epublishers out there. Most of them sell very little. They cause confusion and for the most part sell mediocre to poor content. Anyone can start another one of these, but why bother?

I would say there are two good options
1) start a good epublisher with start up capital, qualified people and independent editorial standards.
2) Self publish either individually or as a co-op, but be clear that you are self-publishing. Making an epublisher 'shell' to go around this probably subtracts rather than adds value.

Just my 2c.

[SafetyDance]

Thanks Amy -- to be honest, if I am going to go the epub route, I am interested to see if I can do it this way. I am in need of a new career :P and I know this is how one of the bigger erotica ehouses came about (I also don't understand why you'd need an agent for an epub house, to be honest!).

I'm just wondering if it's a) something I can learn and b) going to lose me a big wodge of cash.

[SafetyDance]

Warning, I am not going to be little miss positive here.

There are about 100-200 epublishers out there. Most of them sell very little. They cause confusion and for the most part sell mediocre to poor content. Anyone can start another one of these, but why bother?

I need something to do with my life? :) (I mean that in a less flippant way than it sounds, but essentially, I have the time).

I have been vocal on here myself about the poor quality of some epubs. I'm aware that it's not likely to turn into something big. I'm just curious, more than anything.

[thothguard51]

If you are referring to Elora's Cave, the original owner sold out if I remember right. She also had a day job to keep her going. She also did all the work herself and lost money for years before turning a very modest profit. The banking system about drove her crazy with all the international exchange rates, paypal rates, etc...

If you want to start another epub in an an already crowded field, don't expect to turn any profits for five years, if ever. You will be paying for everything, and not just in money, but in your reputation as well because you are not going to please everyone...

Think you have thick skin now as a writer...your going to need Rhinohyde as a publisher because everyone is going to be taking shots at you...

[Bubastes]

I agree with veinglory. If you and your friends want to get your work out there, go the self-pub route. Don't use other people's manuscripts as guinea pigs for your publishing experiment.

[SafetyDance]

I agree with veinglory. If you and your friends want to get your work out there, go the self-pub route. Don't use other people's manuscripts as guinea pigs for your publishing experiment.

Oh, no. I think you misunderstand me. I wouldn't be opening for queries or the like! I mean a co-op, as Veinglory stated, but giving it a house name (brand name?). There are a fair few of us as it is.

thothguard, I am referring to Excessica. ETA: the post further down -- "the future of self-publishing" -- describes how she did it, if anyone's interested:
http://selenakitt.com/blog/index.php/category/publishing/

To be honest, I am not particularly interested in the "type" of erotica that they publish, though it is evidently quite sellable -- so I'm not sure how commerically viable the stuff we write would be. The crux of it would be whether it could be self-funded for a good period of time, among other things.

[Bubastes]

Oh, no. I think you misunderstand me. I wouldn't be opening for queries or the like! I mean a co-op, as Veinglory stated, but giving it a house name (brand name?). There are a fair few of us as it is.


Ah, gotcha. Sorry for misreading!

[veinglory]

There are few epub co-ops but it basically amounts to a name and logo, and linking your reputation to that of the other authors. So you need to trust that they write, edit and format at or above your level and that this is a saleable level--or you lose more than you gain. And with no start up money or share capital you will be selling only via distributors when the larger epublishers actuall sell a lot of volume from their own websites.

I would say that even of you go that way you need to have a properly constucted contact to formalise the relationship and obligations very clearly.

My personal preference is to buy from self-publishers who self-brand (LK Campbell, Dusk Darkling come to mind). I know these people *can" write, edit and format all at a crazy high level. Then you know exactly what you are getting. In a co-op I wonder who did the editing, who else is getting a cut...? It is less clear to me what is going on.

Again, just my opinion.

[Jersey Chick]

If you're going to go the epub route, why not simply submit to a reputable epublisher? There are some good ones out there.

[SafetyDance]

If you're going to go the epub route, why not simply submit to a reputable epublisher? There are some good ones out there.

There are. I would like the control, though :) I need to figure out if it's something I ought to be controlling.

Veinglory -- what's the difference between these self-branders you describe, and a co-op?

[Bubastes]

I'm probably being dense, but I don't understand this need for "control." What exactly do you want to control?

[Nightmelody]

You can self publish on Amazon Kindle for a 70% cut which is more than any epub. The big issue with that is finding readers to buy your book--but that will be still an issue with a brand new epub--or almost any epub.

There are so many epubs selling erotica and erotic romance, and now Carina is on the scene--and they have money for promo--they already place adds in Romantic Times, which many of the smaller epubs can't afford. Plus they have print and distribution power through Harlequin.

[SafetyDance]

I'm probably being dense, but I don't understand this need for "control." What exactly do you want to control?

I'm just fascinated by the whole process. I understand that an already set-up epub would be able to do whatever it is much better than me (well...maybe not the cover art :P) and probably make me more money, too, but I am curious to learn how the whole thing works.

[thothguard51]

Well, starting your own house is different from starting an e-pub. Lots of authors self publish this way, still most fail for the same reasons, low sales...

My suggestion, if you really want to go self pub, then go the full route and not the easy way with Amazon. Here are some things you will need to consider...

1...Hire an editor to go over your work. YOU do not edit your own work.
2...Hire a cover artist.
3...Hire a art director that then lays out your covers.
4...Hire a proof reader. Should be a different person from the editor.
5...Hire a person, to format the final product for e-publishing, in various formats. Amazon never checks the work, and neither do the others...
6...Hire the web service company and a designer for the web site.
7...Incorporate your company name, more than likely LLC.
8...Start bank account in company name.
9...Buy ISBN numbers, cheeper in blocks
10..Submit finished copyright of your work
11...Make agreement with paypal or whatever payment system you want to use.
12...Hire a lawyer to represent you and read over all documents, you will still need a agreement between you the author and you the publisher.
13...Purchase liability insurance. (You might need it one day.)
14...Hire accountant, your going to need to keep track of all expenses for tax purposes.
15...Stock up on the booze and drugs. Have last fling or rousing good sex because it will be a while before you think about it again.
16...Now, spam the hell out of every writing site you can find... Insert your link in every blog response you use, swap blog and website addresses with every other self published author and writer who will agree...


Did I miss anything guys and gals...

Of course I am being silly and over dramatic, but those are things TRUE self published author do...

[veinglory]

Because I know LK and Dusk rock and all their books rock (no they are not personal friends of mine, I just read their work)

If either of them joined up with 2-4 other random people who may or may not have had some input into the work, I would no longer fee l so sure the book would rock.

That said, neither approach is likely to be a money-spinner compared to going with an establish top 10 digital publisher (which are themselves only modestly profitable on a per book basis).

One question i would ask: how many books have you bought from co-ops? How loften were you so impressed you went back and bought from them again? Wha proportion fo your total book buying for the year would this have been?

For most people the answer is in the slim to nil range, fairly or unfairly. Any slice of the pie below about the level of Cobblestone Press of Dreamspinner is likely to be a very small one.

As ever, just my opinion.

[Nightmelody]

Alinar (http://www.alinarpublishing.com/index.php) is a co-op, they might have info to share.

[Jersey Chick]

You can write the best book in the world, have the most beautiful cover - but unless someone (or many someones) know it exists, who's going to buy it? People on Amazon aren't going to scroll through every single book available. Most (and this is my opinion, and not based on scientific anything) already know what they are looking for.

[veinglory]

1...Hire an editor to go over your work. YOU do not edit your own work.
2...Hire a cover artist.
3...Hire a art director that then lays out your covers.
4...Hire a proof reader. Should be a different person from the editor.
5...Hire a person, to format the final product for e-publishing, in various formats. Amazon never checks the work, and neither do the others...
[/QUOTE]

You could probably get one person to edit and copy edit, and one person to do the cover and the interior and still end up with something okay. That's what I did. But it won't look fully professional and I am publishing reprints that have already been edited once.

I would agree that unless you are already independently proficient not to do it yourself. I read *a lot* of self-published work and a lot of them make this mistake. But to outlay this money you need to have a plan to earn it back.

I am tinkering with a self-published volume that will break even at 500 sales. But Loose Id and Samhain have already put my name out there to the readership which is really going to help. I don't intend to have an shell epublisher. The publisher name will just be my name. It will just sell via distributors.

That's just my approach. If the book is just by me/from me... that's what it will look like. And I am not tangling myself up with a bunch of other people i have no control over who might do... whatever with the brand.

[SafetyDance]

Because I know LK and Dusk rock and all their books rock (no they are not personal friends of mine, i just read their work)

If either of them joined up with 2-4 other random people who may or may not have had some input into the work, I would no longer fee l so sure the book would rock.

That said, neither approach is aikely to be a money-spinner compared to going with an establish top 10 edigital publisher (which are themselves only modestly profitable on a per book basis).

One question i would ask: how many books have you bought from co-ops? How loften were you so impressed you went back and bought from them again? Wha proportion fo your total book buying for the year would this have been?

For most people the answer is in the slim to nil range, fairly or unfairly. Any slice of the pie below about the level of Cobblestone Press of Dreamspinner is likely to be a very small one.

As ever, just my opinion.

Ah, I see. The difference is purely because you already know and trust the writers?

How many books have I bought and loved from co-ops? To be honest with you, I haven't been impressed with any of the ebooks I've bought at all. I am usually only impressed by about 10% of the print books that I buy, though, at the most :P I am notoriously picky. I get more enjoyment out of some of the stuff I edit than stuff I've paid for online (I realise my own enjoyment does not = transferred to hoards of paying customers, just sharing my experience). And of course, I choose the stuff I edit because I like it...that may have something to do with that, heh.

Thothguard -- anybody would think you were trying to put me off :P (thank you, lol).

[SafetyDance]

You can write the best book in the world, have the most beautiful cover - but unless someone (or many someones) know it exists, who's going to buy it? People on Amazon aren't going to scroll through every single book available. Most (and this is my opinion, and not based on scientific anything) already know what they are looking for.

No, I understand that. But I'd like to learn about that part, too. I would be doing this because I'm interested in the industry rather than flogging as many copies as possible (of course that should be an ideal, but secondary to me learning the process behind it -- if that makes any sense at all).

However, if it turns out that the whole thing would just be a huge, swirling black hole in which I had to chuck fistfulls of money to pissed off rainbow trout -- I shall reconsider :P

[veinglory]

If you are publishing to profit you need to think about what your customer base is. It will most likely be down stream of what 'real' epublishers acheive (http://www.erecsite.com/SALES.html). If you aren't publishing to profit you need to think about what your goals are and whether this will acheive them.

IMHO the industry *is* flogging a lot of copies. If you make and vend a book nobody buys, what is it that has been learned? Putting word in a file and making it available for sale is no longer all that difficult.... (see random books at Lulu or Smashwords for examples). The biggest predictor of ebooks sales is the publisher, and to my knowledge none of the top selling publishers are co-ops.

I like self-published books but people who do it well are either fully-fledged publishers in theri own right, or working in a non-commerical niche and with mad skills.

[SafetyDance]

IMHO the industry *is* flogging a lot of copies. If you make and vend a book nobody buys, what is it that has been learned?.

...that we did it wrong, and we need to get better?! Of course the goal would not be to sell nothing. I'm just trying to say that I wouldn't be expecting to be made rich, or to somehow be magically better than other people who're already doing it.

The whole ebook industry is relatively new, I will have a lot of time, and I can work for free for a good while. What I can't do is lose a large amount of money. I'm just researching the idea.

[PortableHal]

Firebrain, there's a lot of good advice here from some smart, successful writers. If it seems they're warning you away from a co-op epub, it's probably because even the good books struggle to be found in the current cascade of digital novels.

Writer Dean Wesley Smith (http://deanwesleysmith.com) would probably tell you to go for it, though, and you might check out his site for a different perspective.

[SafetyDance]

Thanks for the link! Very interesting.

I'm going to look into internships in London and go from there, I think. Although I'm sure the image of me in badly-fitting pyjamas, hunched over my laptop, surrounded by tufts of cat hair and empty pizza boxes -- whilst I doodle cover art of headless stick-women on Microsoft Paint -- is amusing to some ;)

[amyashley]

You can self publish on Amazon Kindle for a 70% cut which is more than any epub. The big issue with that is finding readers to buy your book--but that will be still an issue with a brand new epub--or almost any epub.

There are so many epubs selling erotica and erotic romance, and now Carina is on the scene--and they have money for promo--they already place adds in Romantic Times, which many of the smaller epubs can't afford. Plus they have print and distribution power through Harlequin.

In all honesty, the best solution sounds like going through Amazon for self-pubbing e-books. I have read over a thousand of them, and the quality is fab. You might still need to get an editor and someone to do cover art. But I would focus more on forming a company that does MARKETING. I think in today's publishing environment, this is a tremendous need. I am not sure what sort of group of people you might need, but any group focused on getting advertising and marketing out there for newly published authors of any route would probably do well. Being knowledgable about the options available to authors who haven't found agents would be beneficial.

Just a thought.

[Ineti]

You can also go to Smashwords and create either an individual account or a 'company' account. If you have a bunch of people you want to go in with on the same "label," that might be an option.

Good luck! This is a great time to be a writer (and a reader). Ebooks are making it easier for writers to get stuff out there, and easier for readers to read what they want to read, and to check out stuff that doesn't work for the mainstream agencies and publishers.

[Angela James]

Now. I have no publishing experience. I used to teach English so I'm not so worried about learning the technical side of editing (the market knowledge is a different matter) but that's about it. I've bought some truly awful ebooks lately...hey, if they can do it...



Having taught English doesn't make anyone qualified to be an editor, either a content or a copy editor.

[SafetyDance]

Having taught English doesn't make anyone qualified to be an editor, either a content or a copy editor.

Which would be why I said I wasn't so worried about learning to edit.

Sheesh. If you're going to pick on me about editing, read my comments properly :P I never said anywhere that it meant I was qualified; the background would be immensely helpful, though, as opposed to somebody who knew little about language.

[jennontheisland]

If you're going to learn to edit, you might want to do it before you start this epub thing.

You still haven't answered why you need some kind of control over things that authors usually leave to other professionals. (cover art, marketing, branding, negotiating distribution, etc)

[SafetyDance]

If you're going to learn to edit, you might want to do it before you start this epub thing.

You still haven't answered why you need some kind of control over things that authors usually leave to other professionals. (cover art, marketing, branding, negotiating distribution, etc)

I said in a post further up that on the back of the advice I've been given, I would look into an internship and then go from there, if I could find one. I can't think of a better place to learn...? (Unless there are qualifications, too). I didn't just get up and say, "hey! I'm going to be a publisher today!"

And I did answer the control question, on the first page -- because I'd like to learn to do them for myself. I am interested in working in the industry. I'm not really sure why wanting to learn to do it, and then doing it, is bad...? I'm just curious about whether the option is viable. I saw that somebody else had done the same; it's a valid question.

[anne_holly]

How many books, e-pubbed or otherwise, have you had out with companies? I'm not sure I would start a company myself until I had some insider knowledge of some other peoples' companies, to give me an idea of what I want to do differently. Knowing a company as a reader is not as educational as knowing them as a writer. I've published with a couple epub companies now, and I learn quite a bit by asking them a lot of questions, watching the results, and so forth. I also find I have ample control with these companies, if I want it and can explain why. I have found them very willing to meet me half way on most things. I'm also learning a lot about marketing, editing, etc, which is great, since I am new to the business of getting my work out there.

Good luck, whichever way you go!

[Ineti]

I'm just curious about whether the option is viable. I saw that somebody else had done the same; it's a valid question.

Defenitely viable. Do a little research and you and your fellow writers can be releasing ebooks to the masses. You probably won't have to spend a lot of money to do it either, especially if you learn how to do most of the work yourself, such as edit, design covers, format documents for ebooks, etc. or find people able to do that stuff for a fair price.

[SafetyDance]

How many books, e-pubbed or otherwise, have you had out with companies? I'm not sure I would start a company myself until I had some insider knowledge of some other peoples' companies, to give me an idea of what I want to do differently. Knowing a company as a reader is not as educational as knowing them as a writer. I've published with a couple epub companies now, and I learn quite a bit by asking them a lot of questions, watching the results, and so forth. I also find I have ample control with these companies, if I want it and can explain why. I have found them very willing to meet me half way on most things. I'm also learning a lot about marketing, editing, etc, which is great, since I am new to the business of getting my work out there.

Good luck, whichever way you go!

I've not published a novel before (it's my first project that's on sub) -- just shorts (and maybe "the fear" is part of the interest here, heh). You're right in that it's important to know how others are doing it, of course.

The control thing is more to do with just personal interest, than a worry that something would be done wrong. It's like I make bread from scratch instead of buying it (I know that's a rubbish analogy); I like the process.

And thank you :) Hopefully, I won't have to do any of this because it sounds like an immense amount of work :P

[Stacia Kane]

Sheesh. If you're going to pick on me about editing, read my comments properly :P I never said anywhere that it meant I was qualified; the background would be immensely helpful, though, as opposed to somebody who knew little about language.


I really think this kind of rudeness was unnecessary (and putting a tongue-out smiley there does not make it any less rude; in fact it makes it more so). Angela--who is a professional editor with many years of experience, BTW--read your comments the way I did, and the way I believe the rest of us did as well. You said:

I used to teach English so I'm not so worried about learning the technical side of editing (the market knowledge is a different matter) but that's about it.

By saying you're not worried about learning editing but you are worried about learning the market, after telling us you know nothing about the market, your comment can easily be interpreted as saying "I don't need to learn to edit but I need to learn to market," or "I'm not worried about learning to edit because I don't need to." (Keep in mind as well how many people seem to think that because they majored in English or taught English or speak English it means they can edit; that's a very common misconception.)

If you've written a sentence whose meaning is so completely misinterpreted by the various professionals who read it, and so different from what you intended it to say...

The job of a writer is to make themselves clear. The job of an editor is to make sure that happens.

Personally, I learned a lot about the industry--an enormous amount about both epublishing and print--by being published myself and asking questions, and by availing myself of all the information and knowledge available here. You're certainly welcome to start your own epublisher so you can learn the business, but if your goal is simply to learn the business there are other ways to do it without the financial outlays of starting a publishing house.

[SafetyDance]

I really think this kind of rudeness was unnecessary (and putting a tongue-out smiley there does not make it any less rude; in fact it makes it more so). Angela--who is a professional editor with many years of experience, BTW--read your comments the way I did, and the way I believe the rest of us did as well.

I wasn't intending to make it any less rude; I found her comment rude. I use that smiley all the time. This entire thread was because I am "not qualified" and have no knowledge, so I'm not sure why anybody would think that I was, or had -- despite your explanation. I think the comment was made because of the misconception you described, but I find it rude that the assumption would be made of me when I've said at every step that I'm not about to pretend I'm something that I'm not. I think I've already said "learn" enough for somebody else to put it in italics, but that is what I want to do.


You said:

By saying you're not worried about learning editing but you are worried about learning the market, after telling us you know nothing about the market, your comment can easily be interpreted as saying "I don't need to learn to edit but I need to learn to market," or "I'm not worried about learning to edit because I don't need to." (Keep in mind as well how many people seem to think that because they majored in English or taught English or speak English it means they can edit; that's a very common misconception.)

If you've written a sentence whose meaning is so completely misinterpreted by the various professionals who read it, and so different from what you intended it to say...

The job of a writer is to make themselves clear. The job of an editor is to make sure that happens.

I can see that "I'm not worried about," might be seen as "I'm not bothered about," yes -- point taken. However, that kind of implies that I'm a bit stupid, and I think I'm allowed to be concerned about that. Like I said in another post -- I didn't just get up and decide I was an editor.

Market knowledge is knowledge of the market, no? It's something an editor should have, a skill separate from grammar and punctuation.

Marketing knowledge is a different phrase -- so while I understand what you're saying, I'm not sure why I should need to clarify the difference between the two. I didn't actually mention marketing anywhere, just the market.


Personally, I learned a lot about the industry--an enormous amount about both epublishing and print--by being published myself and asking questions, and by availing myself of all the information and knowledge available here. You're certainly welcome to start your own epublisher so you can learn the business, but if your goal is simply to learn the business there are other ways to do it without the financial outlays of starting a publishing house.

I am attempting to be published, and I am asking lots of questions. There are, indeed, other ways to learn -- I shall look into those, too.

I am going to bow out of this thread now. Thankyou to everyone who has offered advice.

[jclarkdawe]

I'm not big into ebooks, but I am big on numbers. Publishing, whether a paper book or an ebook, involves a lot of sunk costs. For instance, you hire someone to do the cover for a book. When the cover is finished, you give the artist a check. That money is gone, whether you sell one book or one million books. Another way of phrasing this is that publishing involves a lot of upfront money. But let's ignore all of that for the moment.

If you are publishing to profit you need to think about what your customer base is. It will most likely be down stream of what 'real' epublishers acheive (http://www.erecsite.com/SALES.html). If you aren't publishing to profit you need to think about what your goals are and whether this will acheive them.

These numbers are interesting and very grim from the point of the publisher. Let's look at the top runner -- Samhein. In the first year after publication, which is when most sales happens, the average book sold by them sells 1120 copies. Now let's do some math. If we assume the average book by Samhein sells for $10.00, and we assume that the author gets 40% of that, where does that leave Samhein?

Six dollars times 1120 copies is a whopping $6,720 going to the publisher in the first year. Or weekly about $129.00 for a paycheck. If Samhein has five books out per year, that works out to $33,600.00 for pay for an annual salary. It is better than what you'd earn from McDonalds, but not by a whole lot.

Of course, if you're Liquid Silver, you only sell an average of 191 copies of a book in the first year. Keeping the same figures as for Samhein, that gives the publisher $1,146.00, or if it publishes five books a year, $5,730.00 for an annual salary. At that point, you do better working at McDonalds.

Since we can see from Veinglory's chart how many books these publishers can flog in a year, the only variable is how many books can they publish. In other words, to make more money, you have to publish more books.

Oh, and remember all those sunk costs you had to bring the book out? Well, I'm guessing you either borrowed the money from yourself or from relatives. Out of the whopping paycheck Liquid Silver gets, would you want to try repaying the borrowed money?

You can increase the stream of revenue here by third-party advertising on your site, and probably in some other ways, which I can't factor into this. But these numbers explain the poor quality of so many ebooks. All of those sunk costs that go into making a better product (layout, cover design, editing) are the only place you can effect your profit. The result is the cheaper you can do all those items, the more of any money you eventually get from the book that will end up in your pocket.

By changing the sales price, you'll get some movement on these numbers, but the only real change is going to happen when sales of ebooks become a significant number. Taking a look at Samhein, if it sold on average 10,000 copies in the first year, then your stream of revenue would be $60,000.00 from the first year sales. Among other things, your fixed costs such as cover design will come down per unit the more units you sell.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

[veinglory]

Keeping in mind that my figures could be a fair way off, but it gives some idea.

Generally epublishing is a volume business. For epublishers and to some extent authors.

[Stacia Kane]

I wasn't intending to make it any less rude; I found her comment rude. I use that smiley all the time. This entire thread was because I am "not qualified" and have no knowledge, so I'm not sure why anybody would think that I was, or had -- despite your explanation. I think the comment was made because of the misconception you described, but I find it rude that the assumption would be made of me when I've said at every step that I'm not about to pretend I'm something that I'm not. I think I've already said "learn" enough for somebody else to put it in italics, but that is what I want to do.


Answering perceived rudeness--which wasn't intended as such, no matter how personally you took it--with ruder rudeness is always a good idea.

Again, especially when the person you've decided is being rude is a very experienced, highly respected professional editor in the very industry you seek to break into, who's helped build several ehouses from the ground up, and who could have been an invaluable source of help and advice to you. As could everyone in this thread.


I can see that "I'm not worried about," might be seen as "I'm not bothered about," yes -- point taken. However, that kind of implies that I'm a bit stupid, and I think I'm allowed to be concerned about that.


Sure. It's much better to imply that all of us are stupid because we misinterpreted your sentence.



Marketing knowledge is a different phrase -- so while I understand what you're saying, I'm not sure why I should need to clarify the difference between the two. I didn't actually mention marketing anywhere, just the market.

1. That was a typo. (Never mind that marketing is part of a publisher's job as well.) I mentioned the market several times; I used "to" instead of "the" once.

2. If you misunderstood my sentence that's your fault.



I am going to bow out of this thread now. Thank you to everyone who has offered advice.

And again, though I know you won't believe me, I sincerely wish you all the best in whatever choice you make.

[jennontheisland]

I can see that "I'm not worried about," might be seen as "I'm not bothered about," yes -- point taken. However, that kind of implies that I'm a bit stupid, and I think I'm allowed to be concerned about that. Like I said in another post -- I didn't just get up and decide I was an editor.
I don't think anyone here would go so far as to say you're stupid. However, neither do I think it smart to start a company in an industry that you admittedly know nothing about.

And while you think you haven't up and decided that you're an editor, unless you plan on hiring one (and paying, since good editors don't work for free) to do it for you, you will be one once you open that publishing house. Deciding to be a publisher with no staff does in fact equal up and deciding to be an editor.

I think you may have lobbed the question without thinking too seriously about it, and all of your responders are thinking seriously. But you asked it, so it seems a little rude of you to flounce out of your own thread because you don't like the answers.

[Angela James]

I'll clarify. You said:



Now. I have no publishing experience. I used to teach English so I'm not so worried about learning the technical side of editing (the market knowledge is a different matter) but that's about it. I've bought some truly awful ebooks lately...hey, if they can do it...



This read/reads to me that you're acknowledging you have no publishing experience but that you used to teach English, so you're not worried that you won't be able to learn the technical side of editing, though maybe the marketing side might be more difficult.

In response, I said that having taught English doesn't make anyone qualified to edit because your post seemed to be saying you didn't have to worry about being able to learn to be an editor based solely on the strength of having taught English. But the fact is, that there are many brilliant English teachers who will never be good book editors. It's rather like there being many brilliant book editors who will never be good authors. Having a base technical knowledge doesn't equal having an aptitude. If it did, I'd like to think that by now I'd have written at least one book and had it appear on the NYTimes list at #1, making me millions (said with tongue firmly in cheek).

So what I should have said, in addition to all of this, and I apologize for coming across as rude in my brevity, is that you should also be worried about the editing part, and include this as another important piece of operating a digital press that's something you'd need to find qualified freelancers or staff people to do (at least one developmental editor and one copy editor), in addition to formatting, accounting, marketing, cover copy, cover art, conversion, legal and more.

You got some excellent advice here, from some authors who have been working in and observing digital publishing for enough years to have a depth of knowledge of both the practicalities and the history of the industry, so I hope you'll consider what they say seriously and think about it over time before reacting viscerally and rejecting it (the same advice I give authors when they get their first set of edits from an editor).

[nkkingston]

I looked into becoming a copyeditor when I finished my English degree (I flatter myself with the belief I have better grammar/punctuation skills than a lot of my fellow graduates!) but I quickly realised I couldn't afford either the training or the length of time I'd have to go without a wage as an intern. It's not something you can learn online; not if you want to go about it professionally. I ended up pretending to be a Victorian for a living, but I did save some links from my 'eyeing up publishing' period.

London School of Publishing (http://www.publishing-school.co.uk/)
Society for Editors and Proofreaders (http://www.sfep.org.uk/default.asp)
Publishing Training Centre (http://www.train4publishing.co.uk/index.php)

Since you've got the support, I'd definitely go for an internship (preferably a few, to see how different publishers work). There aren't many UK epubs, if any, which is a little more awkward. Keep an eye out online, though, to see if any unpaid slushreader poisitions come up at other epublishers, to get a feel for what waiding through slush is like. At least it's not as slippery as the kind covering our roads at the moment! I'd also do at least one editing course, if not a complete qualification.

Then, after two or three years have gone by, you might be ready to get started! It'll give you a chance to save up some capital, anyway. It might be worth persuading your other co-op authors to look into gaining some relevant skills in the meantime as well, such as marketing or cover design, so you've got a team together before you begin (saving you from hiring freelancers).

[amyashley]

That's sound advice! So much is happening in the industry at the moment that keeping tabs on things and a toe in the door is probably a good move.

[Old Hack]

I'm going to look into internships in London and go from there, I think.

You're going to struggle to get an intern position in London, I'm afraid. An editor at one of the big publishing houses told me this summer that last year they received over 10,000 applications for their intern scheme, which has 10 or 12 places on it a year. The people they accepted are all in the process of taking, or already have, MAs in publishing, or have some direct experience of working in publishing. While working as an intern is a good way to get experience and to make connections within publishing the intern has to have something to give back to the company they're interning with; and I can't see that you have anything to offer in that regard.

Literary agents also offer internships but it's just as difficult to get those positions too. Unless you happen to have an aunt who has friends in the business, as does my neice (who is going to be an intern at a fabulous literary agency next summer).

If I were thinking about starting a publishing house, or a publishing co-op, and I had no experience in the business, I'd work in publishing for a few years first and THEN consider whether I knew enough to proceed. I've worked in publishing since the mid 1980s and briefly considered setting up a tiny niche publisher last year: I decided against it because I can't afford to lose the capital I'd have to invest to do it properly, and I want to be a writer, not a publisher. Both are full-time jobs if you do them well, and I don't like to do anything badly.

[bethany]

I see that the English teacher/editing thing has been covered thoroughly, but in case there are other people with similar thoughts/interests reading this thread, I will say that as an English teacher, going through the copyediting process was humbling to say the least.

I would never go through the process alone, and that's after going through the process. But that's just me.

[Nightmelody]

Total E-Bound is an English e pub.