Atlanta Nights - slush really this bad?

mamabear · Sep 30, 2005

I've seen people talk about just how bad most of the slush is, but I kept wondering just how bad it was. Now I'm reading Atlanta Nights, and I'm impressed. I love the part where the three waiters tell the old lady "Backs off, you!", gather around her, knock her out of her chair, then kick her a few times.

It makes me curious, though. Is the slush heap really this bad? If it is, why do these people not realize that they are writing crap?

I think I'll have one of those Shirley Temple Screwdrivers now, with absolute vodka on the rocks.

Marie

Jamesaritchie · Sep 30, 2005

mamabear said:
I've seen people talk about just how bad most of the slush is, but I kept wondering just how bad it was. Now I'm reading Atlanta Nights, and I'm impressed. I love the part where the three waiters tell the old lady "Backs off, you!", gather around her, knock her out of her chair, then kick her a few times.

It makes me curious, though. Is the slush heap really this bad? If it is, why do these people not realize that they are writing crap?

I think I'll have one of those Shirley Temple Screwdrivers now, with absolute vodka on the rocks.

Marie

Slush is like Atlanta Nights, only without the humor.

reph · Sep 30, 2005

Jamesaritchie said:
Slush is like Atlanta Nights, only without the humor.

That is, without the intentional humor.

Dawno · Sep 30, 2005

mamabear, may I recommend you, please, to the reading of: "Slushkiller"

::i really have to *not* post after reading the purple prose entries::

JackieG · Sep 30, 2005

If the slush is really that bad, then why aren't the good writers sticking out like a sore thumb from it?

Fishmonkey · Sep 30, 2005

Jackie --
From my limited experience as a slush reader of short fiction, they do. And also, slush consists of a mix of truly awful stuff (easy to weed out) and the stuff which is just 'meh'. If the story is competently written, I sometimes need to read the whole thing to discover that the ending is weak, or that the whole thing, although nicely written, just doesn't amount to much. But truly good stuff is easy to spot. The question is just how quickly one can process the slushpile.

Jamesaritchie · Sep 30, 2005

JackieG said:
If the slush is really that bad, then why aren't the good writers sticking out like a sore thumb from it?

What good writers? When wading thrugh slush, it often seems there is no such thing as a good writer.

But, seriously, I think good novels do stand out in slush piles. They just don;t land there very often.

The problem is with novels that aren't good enough to stand out, or bad enough to sink to the bootom. . .those novels that make you tink, "Ehh, not very good, but maybe with some work, some rewriting here, some revision there, this character out and that charcetr brought to the fore, iot might be salvageable."

The query process does weed out many of the worst offenders, but not nerly enough. The problem here is that some very bad novelists can write very good queries, and some very good novelists write lousy queries.

But I think good novels do stand out. They just don't arrive often enough, and most really good writers do not land in slush piles.

pianoman5 · Sep 30, 2005

Que?

Is there some suggestion here that 'Atlanta Nights' is not a worthy example of 21st century littritchur? What vile calumny is this?

As Ivor Biggun, reader in Comparative Semiotics at the University of South Woolloomooloo puts it:

'Atlanta Nights is a book only the reckless critic categorises hastily. While those prone to trivial amusement may condemn it as a farrago of gibberish, a sensitive reading of this seminal work can only leave one marvelling at its redemptive structural freedom. Banalities combine joyously with epicene epithets and epigrams, and bon-mots tumble over non-sequiturs in new and unexpected ways to deliver a work of stunning originality, a piece whose sublime ignorant prosody starkly illustrates the inherent vacuity of suburban consumerist angst in the postmodern era, already.'

Here are some comments from other notable observers:-

'I almost understood it.' L Wittgenstein

'Can't wait for the sequel.' Godot

'After lengthy and meticulous consideration, we were prepared to publish it.' Publish America

'This is genuine horror.' S. King

'T. Tea is an author worthy of writing the story of my life, my geography.' G.W. Bush

mamabear · Oct 1, 2005

Ok, the second part of my question - how could anyone write something similiar to Atlanta Nights and NOT knowing they were writing crap? Some of the paragraphs were downright painful to read.

I think James and his crew did an amazing job.

Kasey Mackenzie · Oct 1, 2005

The same way that some people who are absolutely pitch deaf somehow think that they can actually sing on a superstar level. Just watch the first episode of American Idol some season. Yeow! I'm sure that SOME of the people are just doing it to get on tv and know they can't sing. But many others truly believe that they sound excellent. Sometimes people just can't honestly tell whether they do or do not have talent...

Aconite · Oct 1, 2005

mamabear said:
how could anyone write something similiar to Atlanta Nights and NOT knowing they were writing crap?

A classic article on the topic: Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments

cwfgal · Oct 1, 2005

The good stuff does stand out like a sore thumb but there is a lot less of it in the slush pile than most people realize. The problem is finding it amid the rising stacks that comprise most slush piles. Part of the problem stems from the fact that pretty much anyone can string together a bunch of words and tell a story. Then there're personal computers and word processing programs, which have made it ridiculously easy for your everyday person to generate pages and pages of stuff, which has led to much bigger slush piles than ever before. Plus, there is a tremendous amount of ego tied into writing and it's the reason so many people can't view their own writing objectively and see the flaws.

The fact that one can write -- as in put words on paper -- equates in some folks' minds to being able to write well. I can write, therefore I am a writer. But the two are not one in the same. Anyone can cut people open if they choose to do so (laws and such aside) but that doesn't make them a surgeon. Similarly, being able to construct a basic story and write it down doesn't mean one has the skill to create or write something salable that thousands will want to read. Unfortunately, it's impossible to convince some people of this basic truth. So the slush piles keep growing and those who do possess some skill get buried deeper within.

But while it may take longer to get noticed in these bigger slush piles, I do believe the cream will eventually rise to the top. Perseverance and talent are the keys.

Beth

maestrowork · Oct 1, 2005

Kasey Mackenzie said:
The same way that some people who are absolutely pitch deaf somehow think that they can actually sing on a superstar level. Just watch the first episode of American Idol some season. Yeow! I'm sure that SOME of the people are just doing it to get on tv and know they can't sing. But many others truly believe that they sound excellent. Sometimes people just can't honestly tell whether they do or do not have talent...

True. But many people do know they can't really sing. They only do it for fun, or just in case they become the next William Hung. But most people do write -- it's a basic skill. So many people do think they CAN write just because they can put a complete sentence together.

OneTeam OneDream · Oct 1, 2005

maestrowork said:
So many people do think they CAN write just because they can put a complete sentence together.

As sad as it is, that may be half of the people writing for newspapers.........

MarkPettus · Oct 1, 2005

Why is it that sports guys always think newspaper guys are talentless hacks?

Chris, I'm sorry, but I've gotta email this thread to Brian Hoffman, he deserves to know.

:box:

OneTeam OneDream · Oct 1, 2005

MarkPettus said:
Why is it that sports guys always think newspaper guys are talentless hacks.

Chris, I'm sorry, but I'm gotta email this thread to Brian Hoffman, he deserves to know.

Notice I said half........Hoffman is certianly not part of that half.

MarkPettus · Oct 1, 2005

Just giving you grief.

OneTeam OneDream · Oct 1, 2005

I know, but then again.....isn't it true?

maestrowork · Oct 1, 2005

I'd say half of those news writers are competent writers, but definitely not great.

OneTeam OneDream · Oct 1, 2005

maestrowork said:
I'd say half of those news writers are competent writers, but definitely not great.

Well not everyone can be Raymond K. Wong :banana:

maestrowork · Oct 1, 2005

Or Chris Manning.

(someone is going to tell us to get a room soon)

OneTeam OneDream · Oct 1, 2005

maestrowork said:
Or Chris Manning.

(someone is going to tell us to get a room soon)

Someone has been to my site.....that's 2 today that I've found!! See folks, those weblinks really do work.

You know, the weblinks....the ones that look like this www.1teamonedream.com

maestrowork · Oct 1, 2005

I hate self-promoters.

Ray

MarkPettus · Oct 1, 2005

I would never promote my site.

p.s. Since you guys are picking on newspaper hacks, why don't you drop down to the Share Your Work board and pick on my new query letter. I'd like to get some feedback before I send it out.

OneTeam OneDream · Oct 1, 2005

you guys suck

Atlanta Nights - slush really this bad?

Fig of authority

Shiny!

Means well

One Hit Wonder?

On the rocks

Fear the Death Ray

Been a long time...

Writer and Editor

Been a long time...

Writer and Editor

Been a long time...

Fear the Death Ray

Been a long time...

Fear the Death Ray

Been a long time...

Fear the Death Ray

Writer and Editor

Been a long time...