50,000 word novel?

Saanen · Sep 28, 2005

I've finished my WIP and have started the process of revision. The ms. is with my second beta reader now. I'm worried, though, that the length will be a problem when I try and market it. It's a science fantasy (I think it's SF; my first beta reader says it's fantasy) and just shy of 50,000 words. There are a few places I need to expand a little, so the end total should be over 50,000, but not by much. This is perilously close to novella length. Do I have a chance marketing it as a novel?

maestrowork · Sep 28, 2005

I have not sure about SF... but Nicholas Sparks' The Notebook is only 56,000-word long. Fight Club is also a very short novel. If you have a great book, I'm sure you can sell it...

Mike Martyn · Sep 28, 2005

Based on what I've read here, 100,000 might be a better length. If you want to expand it, don't pad it, just add some subplots. Again, I got that bit of advice from Uncle Jm's thread. YMMV

Christine N. · Sep 28, 2005

All my books are about that length. BUT... they are all for 9-12 year olds. And that's the average for that age group.

Take that for what it's worth.

Saanen · Sep 28, 2005

My last novel was 97,000 words, a comfortable length. I guess I should work out some subplots to add to this one, but I'm worried I'll bog it down in unnecessary asides--particularly if I try and add 20 or 30 thousand words of subplots. Bah, how annoying.

Kasey Mackenzie · Sep 28, 2005

I know that the publisher DAW (who does a lot of sci fi and fantasy) has a minimum requirement of 80,000 words for adult-length fantasy. (Or they did last time I checked.) Personally, as a reader, I would not spend the money on a 50,000 word adult-length novel. [Let me restate...I might possibly buy shorter books in a used bookstore, but most likely not new.] It's just not worth the corresponding price because it wouldn't cost much less than an 80-100k book. And I feel much more satisfied with books that are of a certain length. Much shorter than 80k for an adult-length novel and I'm typically dissatisfied.

Then again, that's just one person's opinion. =) I do agree you shouldn't just toss things in to pad the count. Try re-reading the book and making notes to yourself on places you could expand on themes or subplots. Hopefully that will help you get at least a few thousand more words without detracting from the book's quality.

WriterInChains · Sep 28, 2005

This is "second hand" advice -- but Chuck Palahniuk, when asked to give advice to first-time novelists said to write 200 pages, but make them 200 GREAT pages. 50K words = ~200 pages.

Break a leg!
Caren :Sun:

Julie Worth · Sep 28, 2005

There are plenty of short books out there, but the real question is: can you break in with 50k? With SF, it's going to be hard. I had one of the name houses request a partial of one of my SF works, but the letter said it had to be 100k before they'd even consider it. Bugger! It was only 80.

victoriastrauss · Sep 28, 2005

Saanen said:
It's a science fantasy (I think it's SF; my first beta reader says it's fantasy) and just shy of 50,000 words. There are a few places I need to expand a little, so the end total should be over 50,000, but not by much. This is perilously close to novella length. Do I have a chance marketing it as a novel?

I would say not, at least to one of the bigger SF/fantasy imprints. I think you'd need at least 30,000 more words for it to be competitive as a novel.

- Victoria

sassandgroove · Sep 28, 2005

I know this is off topic, but Saanen, you said you think it is Sci FI and your beta reader says it is Fantasy. From what I have read, this is an important distinction even though they sell in the same section of the book store. Might I be so bold as to suggest Orson Scott Card's book How to Write Science Fiction & Fantasy . My own story is set in the future, I call the setting Ultramodern, but there is an element of magic and there is another world that they find with about medieval tech, so it becomes Fantasy.

Saanen · Sep 28, 2005

sassandgroove said:
Might I be so bold as to suggest Orson Scott Card's book How to Write Science Fiction & Fantasy .

I love that book! My copy's got puppy teeth marks all over it.

I read it whenever I feel discouraged (in fact, I think it would make good bedtime reading tonight).

One of the things I keep remembering is Card's distinction between SF and fantasy--if it's got rivets, it's generally going to be perceived as SF. My book is set in the future in a large city, and in fact the climax happens on a terraformed Mars, so it's got rivets. But the main character is a dragon, although not a typical fantasy-type dragon. There's no magic in the book at all. I actually asked about the genre in a thread in the SF/fantasy forum the other week, but the answers were inconclusive. Penguins somehow took over the thread.

Anyway, I'm trying to think of legitimate subplots that I could introduce seamlessly without overwhelming the main plot or slowing the action. Unfortunately, I like to have my subplots tie up with my main story in the end, so adding a subplot (or two) now might easily change the entire book. Maybe that's what's needed, though. Unfortunately I really like it the way it is--but if it's not going to have a chance of selling as it is then I need to change it.

LightShadow · Sep 28, 2005

On my last project my agent recommended between 75K and 90K. It wound up 85,000. Often it depends on the genre and the publisher. Most of the time, however, publishers would like new writers to stay below 100K because that's an awful lot of ink and paper for an unproven author.

Jamesaritchie · Sep 28, 2005

length

caren1701 said:
This is "second hand" advice -- but Chuck Palahniuk, when asked to give advice to first-time novelists said to write 200 pages, but make them 200 GREAT pages. 50K words = ~200 pages.

Break a leg!
Caren

Good advice, if it's in a genre publishers want at 50K, horrible advice across the board. New writers need to follow publisher's guidelines, and come in at that length.

LightShadow · Sep 28, 2005

Jamesaritchie said:
Good advice, if it's in a genre publishers want at 50K, horrible advice across the board. New writers need to follow publisher's guidelines, and come in at that length.

You hit it on the button!

sassandgroove · Sep 29, 2005

Saanen, I know what you mean. I think of my own story as SciFi, with its ultramodern eath like place, but I think it is actually fantasy. In fact, I do what you did in your orig. post, i refer to is as SciFi-Fantasy. But if your world is all rivets and such, even with a big monster, it might be SciFi. There are big monsters and such in plenty of SciFi. :Shrug:

James D. Macdonald · Sep 29, 2005

Novel lengths run on a bell curve, with the middle of the curve somewhere around 90,000 words. The left end of the curve is somewhere in the 40-50K range. The right end of the curve hasn't been found yet.

The closer to the edge of the curve, the closer to genius you have to be.

(Note: the shortest short story that I ever sold was four words long.)

(It was to an anthology called Two Fisted Writer Tales (the sequel to Swashbuckling Editor Stories).

The guidelines said they were looking for stories "From four to four thousand words," so I took that as a challenge.

The story read, in full:

Writer: "Fist, fist!"

Thwack.

OneTeam OneDream · Sep 29, 2005

James D. Macdonald said:
The story read, in full:
Writer: "Fist, fist!"

Thwack.

How much did you make for that?

Robin Bayne · Sep 29, 2005

I suggest submitting a longer book right up front--my first book contract required me to add 20,000 words to my novel (taking it from 80,000 to 100,000 words) but that is hard to do, and once you've sold you have a time-is-of-the-essence thing going on.

James D. Macdonald · Sep 29, 2005

OneTeamOneDream said:
How much did you make for that?

The editor bought me a drink.

On a word-for-word basis that makes it one of the best paying stories I ever wrote.

jerseykat · Sep 29, 2005

My latest book only started getting offers when I rewrote and expanded my ms from 50,000 to 60,000. However, I don't write SF, so I'm not sure whats standard for this genre.

50,000 word novel?

Saanen

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

Mike Martyn

Christine N.

haz a shiny new book cover

Saanen

Kasey Mackenzie

One Hit Wonder?

WriterInChains

Feed my eyes

Julie Worth

What? I have a title?

victoriastrauss

Writer Beware Goddess

sassandgroove

Sassy haircut

Saanen

LightShadow

defender of the blahs!

Jamesaritchie

LightShadow

defender of the blahs!

sassandgroove

Sassy haircut

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

OneTeam OneDream

Been a long time...

Robin Bayne

~writes for Him~

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

jerseykat

Self-Proclaimed Art Addict