Pack in the City

KimJo · Nov 12, 2010

Today, I received a revise/resubmit request on a novel.

It's a gay male romance novel, which might lead some to conclude I'm posting in the wrong forum. However, it's an urban fantasy novel about werewolves, and the R&R was because of my lack of adequate worldbuilding in the werewolf part, so I think my question goes here...

The story takes place in East Boston. Which was one of the editor's problems: How can a werewolf pack exist in a major city?

I also need to do some major worldbuilding regarding how the packs are governed and how more than one pack can exist in a geographic area (I have three small packs in and around Boston). I'm already working on that.

But I'd like to hear the thoughts of my fellow urban fantasists on whether and how a werewolf pack can exist in a city...

dirtsider · Nov 12, 2010

You might want to ask yourself if the pack primarily spends its time in Human or Wolf form? If they're primarily in Human form, I don't see why not. They probably tend to be in sections which are more suburban/park-ish. They'd still be pretty territorial, despite being in Human form. Of course, I can see the males (at least) still 'marking' their territory...

Williebee · Nov 12, 2010

I'd suggest reading some of ChaosTitan's work for examples. She does excellent world building around her UF characters.

Maybe think about how a wolf pack lives and operates, and go looking for that in Boston. From street gangs to streetball to "boiler room" stockbrockers, neighborhood bars to an acapella group on the subway, marking territory and shows of force/skill are all around you.

KimJo · Nov 12, 2010

Dirtsider, they spend most of the time in human form. The cluster of apartment buildings where they live actually exists (I walk past them every day that I work), and there's a ginormous park right across the street. There are also some wooded areas not far from Boston, so I figure they probably hunt smaller animals (raccoons, etc.) in the city and then travel out of the city one night a month to hunt larger game.

Territory is one of the things I have to work out in the governing structure, because I have three packs within about a 20-mile radius, which wouldn't seem to fit with the territorial nature of wolf packs. They're all small packs, though, and the Alpha of the pack my story's about says something about having to keep things small so the pack isn't noticed, so I'm thinking maybe the three packs are actually branches of one pack, perhaps under an uber-Alpha or something.

Williebee, thanks for the suggestions! I'll definitely check out ChaosTitan's stuff. Um... I try to stay far, far away from street gangs. LOL Although that does bring up an interesting point: Street gangs are pretty territorial if my understanding is correct, but their territories sometimes overlap a bit and there's neutral ground. So that's definitely something I can use.

dclary · Nov 12, 2010

I remember vaguely a scene in Wolf where Jack Nicholson went in and urinated all over the other guy's place... literally marking his territory and proving that he was the alpha of that area.

jaksen · Nov 12, 2010

Abandoned buildings that are falling apart, old tunnels and old underground railway lines, overgrown parks. That's where COYOTE packs live in cities.

Occasionally I'll hear about a coyote that got run over in Brighton or West Roxbury. If they can live in a city, so can a pack of gay werewolves.

Send your editor a news article about coyotes in the city, either in Boston, NYC or somewhere else.

Oberon89 · Nov 12, 2010

I have a pack living in a major city (Phoenix metro area) in my series. They spend most of their time as human, but head for the wilderness (there's still plenty in Arizona) during full moons. Given that your wolves are mostly the human sort, I don't think it's a problem at all. There's plenty of wooded areas within a half hour to an hour's drive of Boston, isn't there?

The territorial thing sounds like more of a hurdle to me—lots of potential for conflict there if you have packs living in such close proximity to each other. Best of luck on the rewrite!

ChaosTitan · Nov 12, 2010

Thanks for the rec, Williebee!

I'll actually suggest reading Patricia Briggs's excellent Mercy Thompson series. She does an amazing job with how various werewolf packs live around the country, as well as in a metropolitan area in the Pacific Northwest. Lots of good stuff there.

Kitti · Nov 13, 2010

I'll actually suggest reading Patricia Briggs's excellent Mercy Thompson series.

Seconded.

Also Carrie Vaughn has a werewolf series that takes place in a city.

KimJo · Nov 13, 2010

Jaksen, I've heard about coyotes in the Boston metro area too, but from what I've read things are a little different between coyotes and wolves. Still, if coyotes can do it, in theory shifters who are mostly in human form should be able to.

Oberon, yes, there are wooded areas within a fairly easy drive of the city. The territorial stuff will be complicated, which is why I'm thinking the three packs in the area might turn out in the revisions to be three segments of one large pack. Then there'd have to be some cooperation among them, but would also be room for some conflict since part of the plot of the novel involves conflict between the East Boston group and another pack.

ChaosTitan, I actually just started re-reading the Mercy Thompson books I have on hand

Kitti, good point about the Carrie Vaughn novels, though doesn't Kitty end up being somewhat nomadic?

Kasey Mackenzie · Nov 13, 2010

AW's own Nancy Holzner's urban fantasy, Deadtown, is set in Boston and features a prominent werewolf main character. Granted, her Boston's paranormals are REQUIRED to live inside the city by law with the werewolves going to specific reservation type places during the full moon, but I've read plenty of other urban fantasies that show werewolves living in major cities. They just tend to travel to more rural areas when they need the extra space to roam/hunt.

My own urban fantasy is set in Boston and features shapeshifters, but they're not forced to change into their animal forms once a month on a schedule and do not lose control over themselves while in that form soooo, living in major cities is not nearly as big a problem for them as it is for more traditional "weres."

ChaosTitan · Nov 13, 2010

Kasey Mackenzie said:
My own urban fantasy is set in Boston and features shapeshifters, but they're not forced to change into their animal forms once a month on a schedule and do not lose control over themselves while in that form soooo, living in major cities is not nearly as big a problem for them as it is for more traditional "weres."

This is a great point when dealing with shapeshifters in cities. If your werewolves/shifters have a forced change that they can't control, you need precautions in place. Whether it's leaving for a rural area, or a large metal cage, it should be addressed. In Linda Robertson's Circle series, the heroine keeps cages in her basement for her werewolf friends and takes care of them for the full moon change.

Like Kasey's, my shifters can control their shifts, so they have an easier time living in a city among oblivious humans.

KimJo · Nov 13, 2010

Kasey, how cool! I'll have to check out those books.

Whether my shifters have forced shifts or can control it is one of the worldbuilding things I have to sort out. Right now, I'm thinking they are forced to shift when they're first changed into a were. During the full moon period, which if I recall I've said in the story is about 3-4 nights, they can control when they shift, but they have to shift at some point during that period. (Kind of like humans can control when they go to the bathroom, but eventually they have no choice about it.) Outside the full moon period, they can shift, but mostly don't.

"Large metal cage" makes me think of the BBC series Being Human and George's completely failed attempt to rein in his wolf by caging himself up at the full moon... which in turn may have just given me an idea

GenevieveGoth · Dec 30, 2010

In my WIP, I have two wolf packs that operate in one major urban area. They divide it up into territories and one doesn't cross into the others territory without major consequences. When it comes to my shifters, I do a lot of research on how whatever animal they shift into behaves to get a feel for what a shifter with those instincts would behave. My argument for shifters/werewolves in major urban cities is that even they need jobs.

CheG · Jan 17, 2011

I would research wolves if I were you to get a good grasp of their behaviors in the wild then build around that to translate their behaviors to an urban environment.

KimJo · Jan 17, 2011

I've settled the issue of the packs existing in a small area by making my East Boston pack "officially" part of the larger City Pack, which encompasses the entire Boston metro area and quite a distance west and north. The East Boston pack, however, exists autonomously because the City Pack Alpha is full well aware that the East Boston Alpha is the more dominant and he doesn't want to risk a challenge, so he lets the East Boston Alpha kind of do his own thing with that pack. (The East Boston Alpha, Tobias, doesn't particularly want to challenge the City Pack Alpha anyway; Tobias never intended to become an Alpha and is perfectly content with his own little pack. Which may be counter to what Alphas are usually like, but there are reasons for it.)

Che, that's good advice, but for the most part my shifters are in human form within the city boundaries. Even in wolf form, they don't always behave like wild wolves.

FOTSGreg · Feb 7, 2011

Whitley Strieber's "The Wolfen" was an excellent book and maybe a decent example of how a pack might exist within a major urban city (and kill and get away with it).

Amberly · Feb 7, 2011

KimJo said:
Today, I received a revise/resubmit request on a novel.

It's a gay male romance novel, which might lead some to conclude I'm posting in the wrong forum. However, it's an urban fantasy novel about werewolves, and the R&R was because of my lack of adequate worldbuilding in the werewolf part, so I think my question goes here...

The story takes place in East Boston. Which was one of the editor's problems: How can a werewolf pack exist in a major city?

I also need to do some major worldbuilding regarding how the packs are governed and how more than one pack can exist in a geographic area (I have three small packs in and around Boston). I'm already working on that.

But I'd like to hear the thoughts of my fellow urban fantasists on whether and how a werewolf pack can exist in a city...

The only thing that pops into my head is 'what do they hunt?'

Wolves hunt. (real ones i mean)

warewalves are believeable because they are parallel to real animals, pack language, alpha males, methods of communication, they're very similar.

And my first instinct is that they must have some kind of hunting instinct.

If they just hunt each other then that would make it easy to draw your terratorial lines.

If they hunt humans than that would be exactly why they live in the city - more humans.

Another point, city wolves are less likely to be trapped and shot by human hunter, i've never seen a snare or beartrap in the city. Perhaps their parents moved them to the city for this very reason?

good luck with it.

GregS · Feb 8, 2011

Go look up some of the Werewolf: The Apocalypse game books by White Wolf publishing. It's a roleplaying game (a la Dungeons and Dragons), but they defined the genre as nobody else--before or since (and much of what we read now in UF borrows from them to varying degrees).

They created different breeds and styles of wolves that have different habitat preferences and relationships with the modern world, developed pack structures, intricately examined the ways and modes of "fitting in," and generally examined every aspect of the concept you can imagine.

They will give you tons of ideas.

You should be able to find a lot of them at used book stores (it's out of print but prolific), or you can buy downloadable PDFs from a number of websites.

KimJo · Feb 9, 2011

FOTSGreg and GregS, thanks for the recommendations.

Amberly, in the universe I've created, they only *have* to hunt once a month, at the full moon. During that time, they leave the city and go to one of the more rural "neutral zones" nearby, which exist for the sole purpose of allowing the urban-area packs places to hunt without worrying about intruding in another pack's territory. If they get bored or antsy enough to hunt between full moons, they usually run down some raccoons or something.

By the way... I have a contract on this novel now from MLR Press.

The Deuce · Feb 27, 2011

I've always thought werewolves could live in the city. Mine do. Most of mine--the older ones--can transform at will as well as on the full moon. That makes it a lot easier to live in urban areas.

KimJo · Mar 30, 2011

The Deuce, mine can transform at will also, and sometimes do so to go for a run in a park near their homes as a de-stress technique.

Working on a sequel to this story now, but some of the action's going to take place in Pennsylvania, which means I'd better get my research hat on. Boston, I live in. I know the city pretty well. Pennsylvania--not a clue, but it's where my narrator's from, and he wants to see his family...

Pack in the City

KimJo

Outside the box, with the werewolves

dirtsider

Not so new, really

Williebee

Capeless, wingless, & yet I fly.

KimJo

Outside the box, with the werewolves

dclary

Unabashed Mercenary

jaksen

Caped Codder

Oberon89

The Druid you're looking for

ChaosTitan

Around

Kitti

procrastinatrix

KimJo

Outside the box, with the werewolves

Kasey Mackenzie

One Hit Wonder?

ChaosTitan

Around

KimJo

Outside the box, with the werewolves

GenevieveGoth

CheG

KimJo

Outside the box, with the werewolves

FOTSGreg

Today is your last day.

Amberly

GregS

KimJo

Outside the box, with the werewolves

The Deuce

KimJo

Outside the box, with the werewolves