Zombie Novels...

Josef VonQuestenberg · Nov 12, 2010

Well, One year ago, I began to work on forming the basis for a zombie novel. With suggestions and character ideas from friends, and rigorous work, I, today, have a "Publish worthy" Part 0 (prolouge), Part 1, and 2, that all in total are 45,000 words. Their reception from peers I let read has been astonishing, and I've been told it's similar to what Ted Dekker writes. I grew up reading Tony Hillerman and Steven King, so I really don't know anything about Ted Dekker.

But recently, I've shoved myself into a moat for calling it a "Zombie story." Fact of the matter is, zombie stories are all too many now, even here, I see authors much like myself (perhaps older) who have published their stories, and I feel angst at what I thought had been a good idea. So many novels go published and gain little sales, and Publishers aren't necessarilly going to pay premium and take on the duty of selling... In reality, it's the author that does the selling, a Publisher is just the means to get the book printed and shipped...

I keep telling myself that it was a mistake to put so much onto the shaping of the book... Am I bull shitting to myself that it's pointless, or am I right in writing?

Calla Lily · Nov 12, 2010

You have a couple of misconceptions here.

I bolded them.

Josef VonQuestenberg said:
Well, One year ago, I began to work on forming the basis for a zombie novel. With suggestions and character ideas from friends, and rigorous work, I, today, have a "Publish worthy" Part 0 (prolouge), Part 1, and 2, that all in total are 45,000 words. Their reception from peers I let read has been astonishing, and I've been told it's similar to what Ted Dekker writes. I grew up reading Tony Hillerman and Steven King, so I really don't know anything about Ted Dekker.

But recently, I've shoved myself into a moat for calling it a "Zombie story." Fact of the matter is, zombie stories are all too many now, even here, I see authors much like myself (perhaps older) who have published their stories, and I feel angst at what I thought had been a good idea. So many novels go published and gain little sales, and Publishers aren't necessarilly going to pay premium and take on the duty of selling... In reality, it's the author that does the selling, a Publisher is just the means to get the book printed and shipped...

I keep telling myself that it was a mistake to put so much onto the shaping of the book... Am I bull shitting to myself that it's pointless, or am I right in writing?

Based on what agents and publishers have said on their websites, 45K is too short for an adult book. If you're writing YA, it's on the low side but can still squeak in.

If you're worried about the current zombie-glut in adult fic, I'm not so sure it's a glut in YA. Keep in mind, however, that the zombie books you see on the shelf today were contracted about 18 months ago. Who knows? There could be a lull and 18 months from now people will be saying, "I miss all those zombie books and I'd buy a new one if it was on the shelf." So go ahead and query it. You never know.

As to the second statement... sorry, but it's wrong from beginning to end. A commercial publisher pays you an advance, puts time and money and effort into editing and marketing and sending out ARCs. They invest in you and your book and make it their business to produce a tantalizing package to attract the public so they, the publisher, make a profit. Authors do some marketing--I'm speaking at the library and have done blog interviews and other things. But a commercial publisher gets word of your book out there through its sales and marketing staff. So everybody can pay the rent.

I don't include self-publishing here, or (of course) vanity presses. The BR&BC forum will tell you all about vanity, and there's a self-pub forum for people who choose that route. I'm commercially pubbed, so I don't know about self-pubbing.

Oh, and Ted Dekker is well-known in Christian circles as a writer of Christian horror/suspense.

quicklime · Nov 12, 2010

ummm, if it is about zombies, the story is what it is--what else did you plan on calling it?

Glut or no, good work can sell--it just raises the bar, considerably. However, if cala and I understood you correctly, 45K is about half of a zombie book. A certain amount of cost is "front-loaded" in publishing, it goes to legal matters, taking the print run space offline for other projects to do this one, cover art, etc.....say any book costs a publisher $2 to make just in that sort of stuff, not even counting paper costs and other things which change with size of a book. That means your book will take on a greater than 50% expense to the company to make, compared with a book twice its size. However, an audience is not going to be likely to shell out anywhere near the same price for a "half a book". That means publishers are extremely reluctant to do anything in what is almost novella-length by anyone who isn't already Stephen King, Ray Bradbury, etc.

as for the second thing calla highlighted, you're new, and that's ok--everyone starts somewhere. But I would highly recommend some serious browsing around here and other avenues of research besides whatever you have already, because you're moving forward with some serious misconceptions--better to understand the beast before you play with it than to learn as you go....

Josef VonQuestenberg · Nov 12, 2010

callalily61 said:
You have a couple of misconceptions here. I bolded them.

Based on what agents and publishers have said on their websites, 45K is too short for an adult book. If you're writing YA, it's on the low side but can still squeak in.

Well, I left out that I hadn't finished. I've got an entire Part 3 dedicated to a character's day with a military force (which has a nice end to it...) and a part 4 with more interesting things happening, and more evolutions in a portion of the 'zombie' population.

callalily61 said:
If you're worried about the current zombie-glut in adult fic, I'm not so sure it's a glut in YA. Keep in mind, however, that the zombie books you see on the shelf today were contracted about 18 months ago. Who knows? There could be a lull and 18 months from now people will be saying, "I miss all those zombie books and I'd buy a new one if it was on the shelf." So go ahead and query it. You never know.

As to the second statement... sorry, but it's wrong from beginning to end. A commercial publisher pays you an advance, puts time and money and effort into editing and marketing and sending out ARCs. They invest in you and your book and make it their business to produce a tantalizing package to attract the public so they, the publisher, make a profit. Authors do some marketing--I'm speaking at the library and have done blog interviews and other things. But a commercial publisher gets word of your book out there through its sales and marketing staff. So everybody can pay the rent.

I don't include self-publishing here, or (of course) vanity presses. The BR&BC forum will tell you all about vanity, and there's a self-pub forum for people who choose that route. I'm commercially pubbed, so I don't know about self-pubbing.

Oh, and Ted Dekker is well-known in Christian circles as a writer of Christian horror/suspense.

Thank you for everything you input here. I can't say any of it needs apologies, as I was taking a pessimistic view on things like usual when it comes to publishing. I'm partly glad that you mentioned it, but I'm afraid that if I decide to make writing my living, I won't have much of a chance. I've always aspired to start a career like Stephen King's. But, I have an intense fear of un-righteous cliches.

Another thing about my book... It takes place in 2012. Would people still read it 'after the fact' that the world didn't end? I haven't seen any Y2K books nor read through them, and my Prolouge leaves room for error, but I may have to adjust the year that my characters think it is to 2015 if need be.

quicklime said:
ummm, if it is about zombies, the story is what it is--what else did you plan on calling it?

Glut or no, good work can sell--it just raises the bar, considerably. However, if cala and I understood you correctly, 45K is about half of a zombie book. A certain amount of cost is "front-loaded" in publishing, it goes to legal matters, taking the print run space offline for other projects to do this one, cover art, etc.....say any book costs a publisher $2 to make just in that sort of stuff, not even counting paper costs and other things which change with size of a book. That means your book will take on a greater than 50% expense to the company to make, compared with a book twice its size. However, an audience is not going to be likely to shell out anywhere near the same price for a "half a book". That means publishers are extremely reluctant to do anything in what is almost novella-length by anyone who isn't already Stephen King, Ray Bradbury, etc.

as for the second thing calla highlighted, you're new, and that's ok--everyone starts somewhere. But I would highly recommend some serious browsing around here and other avenues of research besides whatever you have already, because you're moving forward with some serious misconceptions--better to understand the beast before you play with it than to learn as you go....

Again, my fault for not specefying. The outlook for my book is pretty much going to be 105,000 words, so no worry about not publishing in that category. I just need to worry about if it's good enough; Paragraph structure is ok, but Dialouge I need to go all around to improve. Word makes it easy, however.

leahzero · Nov 12, 2010

Josef VonQuestenberg said:
But recently, I've shoved myself into a moat for calling it a "Zombie story." Fact of the matter is, zombie stories are all too many now, even here, I see authors much like myself (perhaps older) who have published their stories, and I feel angst at what I thought had been a good idea. So many novels go published and gain little sales

That's the reality of publishing. It has nothing to do with whether your book is about zombies, vampires, human beings, or fluffy kittens. There are more books than readers, so most books will never have a large audience.

I'm not sure what you're getting at about zombie novels in particular. I've written one myself and am about to begin the querying process, and along the way I've read quite a bit of modern zombie fiction. The truth is, there isn't much good zombie lit, and the majority comes from small pubs like Permuted Press that don't have the same quality standards as big pub houses. Zombie novels are still very niche compared to, say, vampire novels.

EFCollins · Nov 12, 2010

Leah: What about fluffy-vampire-kitty-zombies? They'd make perfect pets for my dancing vampire cowboys in tutus that work for Henry VIII. (Yes, I am kidding.)

RE zombies: Josef: First and foremost, finish the book first. Polish it till it blinds with the shine. Then polish it some more. Worry about publishing only after that happens. But write it. There's no BS when you're doing what you love.

Josef VonQuestenberg · Nov 12, 2010

EFCollins said:
First and foremost, finish the book first. Polish it till it blinds with the shine. Then polish it some more. Worry about publishing only after that happens. But write it. There's no BS when you're doing what you love.

Well, I have to say, you are making me think of proving the idiom wrong.

"You Can't Polish a turd."

I have the uptmost disrespect towards my book and my writing skill; when someone tells me they love what I've done so far, and they want to read the next part in my book, I always tell myself I'll never be able to be any good at what I'm doing. It's just crap. People I know, even teachers, tell me that it's good with only a few flaws. The biggest flaw is Dialouge, but I know how to fix that. I can prove it worthy to others; but I can't accept it until it is perfect.

EFCollins · Nov 12, 2010

Well, then smack yourself and keep writing. The darned book won't write itself. We'd all be out of jobs then.

Basically, you got to take our very own Uncle Jim's advice. You have to give yourself permission to write crap. He even has a certificate made up that says he gives you permission. It's here on the forum somewhere...

I'd suggest reading Uncle Jim's thread and doing the assignments. It's an incredible thread and has tons of helpful advice. Better than any how-to-write-a-novel book I've ever bought (which wasn't many... okay, two, but don't hold it against me. I was just starting).

Josef VonQuestenberg · Nov 12, 2010

Where can I find Uncle Jim's thread?

Debbie · Nov 12, 2010

Uncle Jim's thread: take a sharp right past Horror Hounds marquee, you know, the one with newbie-q-bie bones for letters...no no, my bad. That's the way to the spit.

Go up Three-Mile-Hill. Catch the ferry for Eyeball Island, nah that's not it. That's where Haggis stores his old avatar pics.

You can buy a ticket at the train station. Hurry up last one departs at 11p, aww you missed it.

It's here.

yw

elindsen · Nov 13, 2010

i think we all have major doubts about our writing. sitting here i think mines passable to pretty good. i love the premise and think the story is strong. cut to a couple weeks when i resume querying ill start thinking my writing is sh** and i should be kicked in the mouth for ever writing it.

you have to learn to get passed doubt and leap. like somone said polish plish polish. i think im on round 6 or 7 with checking over. i have a beta making sure i didnt miss any little blips then ill be done. its like being a parent. your baby will have flaws but it will also have strengths. you have to love with how it is.

PattiTheWicked · Nov 13, 2010

Josef VonQuestenberg said:
I have the uptmost disrespect towards my book and my writing skill; when someone tells me they love what I've done so far, and they want to read the next part in my book, I always tell myself I'll never be able to be any good at what I'm doing. It's just crap. People I know, even teachers, tell me that it's good with only a few flaws. The biggest flaw is Dialouge, but I know how to fix that. I can prove it worthy to others; but I can't accept it until it is perfect.

People you know will always tell you it's good. They don't want to hurt your feelings, and chances are that they've never met anyone who actually took the time to write a novel before, so they're impressed.

Unless your beta readers are fellow writers, or total strangers who have no vested interest in not offending you, I'd thank them for their time but not focus too much on "my best friend's mom told me she loved it" or whatever. Many people confuse "that's a cool story" with "that's really well-written" because they just don't recognize that there's a difference.

You tell us you don't think it's very good, but you clearly recognize where your weak parts are. Work on those, brush up your technical skills - I'll echo the suggestion of the Uncle Jim thread -- and see what happens. Bring it around here, post bits of it on Share Your Work and let other people help you improve your abilities by being brutally honest about what you've done.

Meanwhile, accept that some of what you've written is shit and it totally unusable. If you've got a dozen crap paragraphs, congratulations - you've just learned a dozen things not to use when you're writing a story.

Calla Lily · Nov 13, 2010

Debbie, that post was full of WIN.

IDGS · Dec 9, 2010

I'd be careful about taking the wind out of your sails saying there's 'too much' zombie fiction out there.

To me, that's kind of like saying there's too much 'romance.' While they all involve love (in your case, zombies) it's the telling and the stories that make them different. I recently published my first zombie novel, GREY DOGS: ZOMBIE SURVIVAL (http://bit.ly/908wds) and at a time where zombies are flooding the market.

If you write a carbon-copy zompocalypse, then yes. You're likely correct. But have faith in yourself - you may have done something (likely) that no one else has thought or, or at least told a traditional tale in a new way. There's more than one way to skin a cat, as the saying goes!

Good luck, now get back to writing!

Zombie Novels...

Josef VonQuestenberg

On thin ice

Calla Lily

On hiatus

quicklime

all out of fucks to give

Josef VonQuestenberg

On thin ice

leahzero

The colors! THE COLORS!

EFCollins

World Class Rambler

Josef VonQuestenberg

On thin ice

EFCollins

World Class Rambler

Josef VonQuestenberg

On thin ice

Debbie

conducting hijinks

elindsen

Zombie lovin'

PattiTheWicked

Unleashing Hell.

Calla Lily

On hiatus

IDGS

@LeaveItToIan