query work with high word count

I have read a number of articles that say you should not submit a book that is much longer than 80,000 - 120,000 words, as you have less of a chance of having it published- They go on to say that longer books do sometimes get accepted but the work has to be exceptional.

With that in mind, if you decide to submit a book with a much higher word count- lets say 200,000 - 250,000 words, should you only mention the word count later on in the querying process? Will it "put you on the back foot" so to speak, if the agent sees the word count before he/she has bought into your idea?

my manuscript is currently sitting at around 200,000 words unfinished, *gulp* and thats why im asking. Its still the first draft, and there is a LOT I can cut, and tone down, but the story itself is written and paced like a 50,000 word novel. There is very little waffle, in fact some of the scenes seem a little rushed to me.
I think the reason for this is that the story is complex to begin with. (as complex as any book set in a world we are familiar with), but now on top of that I have created a world with its own physics system/ duel magic system, culture (for every city they visit), games, history etc that are all integral to the plot or add to the depth of the world. Unfortunately that stuff has to be explained in such a way that I dont info dump, and that it doesnt become boring/too complex for the reader to follow.
I'll take the advice and strip down as much as I can, (iv already discarded about 6 chapters) but I dont think i'll be able to get it below about 180,000 words.

another question, do you need to justify a long word count in the query. "I know 500,000 words is long but..."

Ziljon said:

It's good that you're already starting to think about the query, Ave.

If your book needs to be long then it will be. Franz Schubert was a wonderfully gifted composer who wrote some very very long compositions. His melodic line and harmonic landscapes were so beautiful, however, that people referred to his prolixity as "Schubert's glorious lengths."

If your story truly needs that 'glorious length' (I'd refrain from even thinking about it as unfortunate, by the way) then it will be a pleasure to read--and a great value for the consumer, too!.

I hope you will post an excerpt for critique when you're ready in "share your work."

Good luck.

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thanks Ziljon this is a very encouraging post.
Im looking forward to posting an excerpt, but at the same time it terrifies me lol

jclarkdawe said:

You justify a long word count by showing that you know how to write tight, compelling prose in your query, and have the first five to ten pages tightly enough written that an agent doesn't want to take out a red pen and compelling enough that the agent wants more. That's the only way to justify a high word count.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

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makes sense, thanks