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KathleenD
09-09-2010, 12:37 AM
I'm a bit stuck at the moment - realized there was this group of people who wrote the same sort of things I write that I could ask for help :)

Erotic romance. The story kicked off with an encounter between strangers looking for a one night stand. They found one. They used a condom, however, and will continue using them until much later in the story. It was good enough that they planned to get together again.

This scene is set the next day. They've accidentally run into each other. He is clearly fascinated by her, but she wants to keep their relationship strictly sexual, so she keeps nudging the conversation back to steamy as opposed to personal.

That's the emotional underpinning to the scene.

They are now in a semi-private outdoor space. She has enjoyed an orgasm and wants to return the favor. She goes down on him.

I am now at the... er... end of the scene. My instinct, character-wise, is that she wants to swallow. However, I got my sex ed classes when AIDS was raging, and that is Just Not Safe. Technically, neither is oral, but who wants to live in a world without oral?

So I'm trying to decide - go with my original plan, or have him hand her a handkerchief?

What say you, experts?

scarletpeaches
09-09-2010, 12:39 AM
This is just my personal opinion, but I don't see the point of sucking a guy off unless you swallow.

Line forms to the left, guys.

PS: How about a hand job?

PPS: That was to KathleenD.

alleycat
09-09-2010, 12:42 AM
I should probably stay out of this . . . but she could finish using her hand if this happens to be a concern of hers--for most people, it probably wouldn't be.

thothguard51
09-09-2010, 01:01 AM
I am now at the... er... end of the scene. My instinct, character-wise, is that she wants to swallow. However, I got my sex ed classes when AIDS was raging, and that is Just Not Safe. Technically, neither is oral, but who wants to live in a world without oral?

So I'm trying to decide - go with my original plan, or have him hand her a handkerchief?

What say you, experts?

1...Do guys still carry around handkerchiefs? If so, I hope its silk like...

2...She wants to keep it sexual but to me, Oral is a lot more personal than just straight sex. So, would she go this route?

3...She just achieved her orgasism, how? Was it intercourse, or did he use his fingers, or perform oral on her? The reason I ask, is once again, you can get infected from open cuts on your fingers or cavaties in your mouth. So worrying about it after the fact is, well, worrying it after the fact. Be consistent in what you show if you are going to worry about the after affects.

Just some things to think about...

scarletpeaches
09-09-2010, 01:03 AM
Right, there's nothing else for it. A cheese-and-onion-flavour condom. Everyone likes cheese and onion!

Satori1977
09-09-2010, 01:22 AM
I grew up in an age of STD's and AIDS and never gave it much thought while giving head. During intercourse, yes, a condom was necessary. But never during a BJ. None of the girls I knew gave it another thought either. If they liked swallowing, they did. If they didn't enjoy it, then they simply didn't do it.

Most men don't think about it either, when they give oral to a woman. I don't think many people are as concerned as maybe they should be. So it would be believable if she wanted to swallow and did.

Satori1977
09-09-2010, 01:23 AM
Right, there's nothing else for it. A cheese-and-onion-flavour condom. Everyone likes cheese and onion!

Eww, not together! And whoever came up with flavored condoms, yuck. They all taste like rubber to me.

scarletpeaches
09-09-2010, 01:25 AM
I've never used a flavoured condom. I once slept with a guy who wore a coloured condom, though. Bright blue. It was like fucking Papa Smurf.

thothguard51
09-09-2010, 01:25 AM
Eww, not together! And whoever came up with flavored condoms, yuck. They all taste like rubber to me.

And what do you think a handkerchef would taste like...

scarletpeaches
09-09-2010, 01:26 AM
Spunk, obviously.

Satori1977
09-09-2010, 01:28 AM
I've never used a flavoured condom. I once slept with a guy who wore a coloured condom, though. Bright blue. It was like fucking Papa Smurf.

I got them on a whim with a boyfriend, and tried two different "flavors". But tasted nasty and I couldn't finish. Never tried the colors.

And what do you think a handkerchef would taste like...

Why would I be tasting a handkerchief?

StoryG27
09-09-2010, 01:28 AM
My instinct, character-wise, is that she wants to swallow.
Go with your instinct.
You know your characters and their motivations better than anyone.

KathleenD
09-09-2010, 01:39 AM
Sure, I'll take a hand job.

Oh, rats, it wasn't an offer.

Good stuff, y'all. It is helping. I've been overthinking the scene instead of just writing it.

He used his hand on her. She's one of those people that really enjoys giving head right after she's gotten off. But she also wants to get him off in the best possible way - I'm trying to show that she's the sort who plays fair, orgasm for orgasm, even when it's just a casual encounter. It's her approach to people more than just a sex act.

Also, she knows from experience that if someone should come along, it's easier to disengage from oral (move back a few inches, zip him up, done) than to have to stand up and pull her pants back up. If I didn't need her to wear pants in this scene, I'd put a dress and no panties on her.

I was seriously just... sticking, sorry... on the finishing with the hand or swallowing point - afraid a publisher would want me to be more consistent with the safe sex. I'm hoping readers all feel like you, Satori ;)

Looking forward to other takes, and thank you all so far.

scarletpeaches
09-09-2010, 02:03 AM
I've never come across (snerk) a publisher who wanted me to bag it for oral.

(Did you see me being all classy thur)?

Wayne K
09-09-2010, 02:07 AM
Best. Thread. Ever.

DiloKeith
09-09-2010, 06:20 AM
My impression from gay forums and gay erotica is that unprotected oral is typical these days. I would think it applies to heterosexuals.

BudBoxer
09-09-2010, 06:44 AM
Kathleen, you say she’s trying to keep it sexual. He’s leaning personal. They’re outdoors, right? Seems to me she blows him, he climaxes in her mouth, she looks into his eyes then spits on the ground. Swallowing is personal. She’s sending a message.

I think unprotected oral is the norm. Geeze. Where’s the cold shower in this Forum?

kuwisdelu
09-09-2010, 06:49 AM
Swallowing is personal.

Not always.

thothguard51
09-09-2010, 06:51 AM
Does she Kiss him after getting him off?

BudBoxer
09-09-2010, 06:52 AM
Oh, OK. Sometimes tasty.

CheyElizabeth
09-09-2010, 07:04 AM
Swallow, fa sho.

I second the best thread ever..

thothguard51
09-09-2010, 07:04 AM
Oh, OK. Sometimes tasty.

But is that personal or just a reaction to wanting to share?

Remember, she wants to keep it just about the sex...

Synonym
09-09-2010, 07:07 AM
If you want to make it a little more detached and not quite so intimate, I'd go for finishing with her hand. But that would be more for making the relationship seem casual to the reader. Guys probably don't care a whole lot, but women tend to see swallowing as something you do for someone special.

thothguard51
09-09-2010, 07:14 AM
If you want to make it a little more detached and not quite so intimate, I'd go for finishing with her hand. But that would be more for making the relationship seem casual to the reader. Guys probably don't care a whole lot, but women tend to see swallowing as something you do for someone special.

I totally agree and then she would not have to kneel down in public. The only problem I see is when he squirts, making sure she does not get any on her blue dress...ahhh jeans.

Raindrop
09-09-2010, 09:37 AM
I totally agree and then she would not have to kneel down in public. The only problem I see is when he squirts, making sure she does not get any on her blue dress...ahhh jeans.
She doesn't have to be in front of him to jerk him off. If she's standing on his side or even behind him, she doesn't have to, uh, duck the squirt. And bonus! No eye contact that way.

Cliff Face
09-09-2010, 01:34 PM
I've used coloured condoms.

I wanted them in black, but couldn't find any.

scarletpeaches
09-09-2010, 03:54 PM
Guys don't bother about whether or not a woman swallows?

Uh...they do in my experience.

(Probably 'cause I'm damn good at it).

DrZoidberg
09-09-2010, 04:18 PM
I seem to recall that getting AIDS orally is virtually impossible, and there are no recorded cases where the only possible method of transmission was orally. You can get Gonorrhoea if you're deep throated. I think that's about it. Am I wrong?

If I'm right, condoms for oral is overkill.

DrZoidberg
09-09-2010, 04:19 PM
I've used coloured condoms.

I wanted them in black, but couldn't find any.

Youth flashback trauma. I once put on a black condom. Lady points and laughs. Penis goes soft. I become sad. Sex fail.

Satori1977
09-09-2010, 06:09 PM
Guys don't bother about whether or not a woman swallows?

Uh...they do in my experience.

(Probably 'cause I'm damn good at it).

I think guys don't care in the sense that they are getting off, so either works for them. But they would prefer a woman swallows. It feels a lot better. But I don't think a guy would say "You're not gonna swallow? Well then, never mind." :D

I do agree with it being more personal, didn't think about that angle. Maybe some girls would always do it, no matter who they were with. I guess it depends on the character. But me? Only swallowed with 2 people - guys that I loved.

Satori1977
09-09-2010, 06:09 PM
Youth flashback trauma. I once put on a black condom. Lady points and laughs. Penis goes soft. I become sad. Sex fail.

Why would she laugh?? That is awful. :Hug2:

scarletpeaches
09-09-2010, 06:15 PM
I think guys don't care in the sense that they are getting off, so either works for them. But they would prefer a woman swallows. It feels a lot better. But I don't think a guy would say "You're not gonna swallow? Well then, never mind." :D

I do agree with it being more personal, didn't think about that angle. Maybe some girls would always do it, no matter who they were with. I guess it depends on the character. But me? Only swallowed with 2 people - guys that I loved.I've never not swallowed. I wouldn't be doing it if I wasn't gonna. I hate it when guys push me away. It's like, "Okay, okay, stop pretending to be a gent. If you were, you wouldn't have stuck your cock in my mouth. Just sit back and let me take care of this."

EmilyCale
09-09-2010, 07:51 PM
I seem to recall that getting AIDS orally is virtually impossible, and there are no recorded cases where the only possible method of transmission was orally. You can get Gonorrhoea if you're deep throated. I think that's about it. Am I wrong?

If I'm right, condoms for oral is overkill.


Jumping in for your public health service announcement: the Centers for Disease Control says that while unprotected oral sex is safer than unprotected vaginal or anal sex, it is still risky. There have been a few cases were the reported exposure occurred during oral sex. The probability goes up if either person has cuts or open sores on genitals or around lips. They, of course, recommend condoms or dental dams. (I used to have a resource with the exact probability, but it seems to be buried among my books.)

That said, most surveys say that the number of people using protection for oral sex is minimal. My person opinion is that latex does not taste very good and the flavored condoms are usually worse than the latex.

Wayne K
09-09-2010, 07:54 PM
Who the hell wants to see a big green :censored coming at them in the dark?

jennontheisland
09-09-2010, 07:59 PM
Who the hell wants to see a big green :censored coming at them in the dark?
You haven't read the thread on alien fucking, have you?

scarletpeaches
09-09-2010, 08:18 PM
You haven't read the thread on alien fucking, have you?I kinda sorta love you and hate you for that.

kaitiepaige17
09-09-2010, 08:26 PM
I mean, does not swallowing always have to be less personal than swallowing?

Oral sex in general is pretty intimate in my opinion, but what do I know? I've only had sex/oral with one person so that makes everything pretty personal.

Maxinquaye
09-09-2010, 08:36 PM
If you're a regular guy, I don't think swallowing or not is a big issue, to be honest. Regular guys will be over the moon that someone is down there doing that, and that fact will probably short-circuit any deeper analytical musings about whether the Lady (or Gentleman) in question swallows or not.

scarletpeaches
09-09-2010, 08:38 PM
Oral without swallowing is like kissing without tongues.

Wayne K
09-09-2010, 11:29 PM
I was going to request that this thread be stickied, but I think that's already been done :D

Wayne K
09-09-2010, 11:30 PM
More than once

Maxinquaye
09-09-2010, 11:31 PM
It's a sticky subject, Wayne :D

jennontheisland
09-09-2010, 11:34 PM
Not if you swallow, it isn't.

Wayne K
09-09-2010, 11:36 PM
Chapter 39 of my WIP is about the filthiest, most brilliant commentary on oral sex you will ever read.




That is all :D

Wayne K
09-09-2010, 11:45 PM
I wonder if I can fit a big green :censored into the ending

jennontheisland
09-09-2010, 11:48 PM
Um, I think we're gonna need another thread for that one.

Maxinquaye
09-09-2010, 11:53 PM
Another subject in the NC-17 area. Possibly.

Satori1977
09-10-2010, 01:01 AM
If you're a regular guy, I don't think swallowing or not is a big issue, to be honest. Regular guys will be over the moon that someone is down there doing that, and that fact will probably short-circuit any deeper analytical musings about whether the Lady (or Gentleman) in question swallows or not.

My husband was shocked that I would with him, no girl ever had before. Then again, I had dated several guys shocked that I would go down on them at all. Not sure how common it is for a girl to swallow, since it seems a decent amount won't even give bj's. I feel a poll coming on....

Satori1977
09-10-2010, 01:02 AM
Oral without swallowing is like kissing without tongues.


I totally want to put this in my sig, but don't think it is appropriate for other parts of AW.

But I have to say I love you :heart:

KathleenD
09-10-2010, 02:53 AM
I missed this group, I really did. I put myself into exile for a bit, because I was writing a lot of words on AW and not enough onto pages. It's nice to see nothing changed while I was on the wagon.

I personally tend to agree that swallowing is very intimate. The character, on the other hand, is more of the "if you don't swallow, what's the point" school of thought. That's probably the root of my struggle - a conflict between my own preferences and my character's. It probably sounds stupid, but I was seriously sitting here frozen and I can't thank you all enough.

I was about to say "choking" and thought better of it.

The spitting on the ground idea was marvelous, vivid writing. All wrong for the scene and where the characters are going, but wow, that was good stuff. Someone ought to put that into a book or something.

Anyway, I've finished the scene with swallowing denouement. If it sells I'm totally putting this subforum into the acknowledgments ;)

scarletpeaches
09-10-2010, 02:57 AM
I really, really don't get the 'swallowing = more intimate' thing. I'm trying to, because as a writer I need to get into other people's heads, but...come on. You've got a guy's cock in your mouth. You don't get much more intimate than that.

What's a little sex-wee between friends?

KathleenD
09-10-2010, 03:27 AM
Well, like most things that are less about logic than they are about a lifetime of baggage, it doesn't really make sense.

With a casual fling (back when I had such things) I always always always used a condom. He did not leave any of... himself... behind. I can count the number of boys I allowed to go bare on the fingers of one hand with fingers left over to tell the less-acceptable suitors what they could do with themselves.

"He may have come, but he didn't come in me." It was just this line I drew between people with whom I was willing to have some sweaty fun and people that I trusted.

Cock in mouth itself isn't any more intimate than cock in the other options, in my opinion. If I didn't know the fellow that well but would rather have sex with him than watch TV, I was going to have a barrier, whether that barrier was made of latex down south or my own finely tuned reflexes up north.

kuwisdelu
09-10-2010, 03:31 AM
I really, really don't get the 'swallowing = more intimate' thing. I'm trying to, because as a writer I need to get into other people's heads, but...come on. You've got a guy's cock in your mouth. You don't get much more intimate than that.

What's a little sex-wee between friends?

I haven't been with a girl who wouldn't swallow. I don't much get why it would be more intimate or anything, either.

One thing that does seem to be common is younger generations view oral sex as more casual than vaginal intercourse, while older generations view it as much more intimate for some reason.

Wayne K
09-10-2010, 03:37 AM
You guys are making me miss prison.

Maxinquaye
09-10-2010, 04:33 AM
Maybe it's important for the girl here. Probably. Swallowing or not is a decision for the girl. I doubt though that it will make any difference for the guy. It's not like we value the spunk. Heck, by the first year after we've hit puberty we've shed bucketloads of it, both intentionally and unintentionally.

So, we pay no heed to it. We generally don't tend to fetischize it (although we can do that, sometimes, which is why there is bukkake porn). So, as a general rule, we spill the spunk to the ground, and forget about it.

It would probably be much more important to the girl in this scenario.

Satori1977
09-10-2010, 09:16 AM
I really, really don't get the 'swallowing = more intimate' thing. I'm trying to, because as a writer I need to get into other people's heads, but...come on. You've got a guy's cock in your mouth. You don't get much more intimate than that.

What's a little sex-wee between friends?

Not speaking for myself, because I enjoy it, but I know women who think it is gross. It is a bodily fluid, maybe they think it tastes weird, or it is just the thought that makes them hesitate. For some people it is just taboo, and thought to be wrong.

Don't ask me why though, I prefer to swallow. ;)

DrZoidberg
09-10-2010, 10:44 AM
Why would she laugh?? That is awful. :Hug2:

I'm very pale. She thought it looked silly. I have a big penis, and then I had very scrawny thighs. So it probably did look silly. Like I'd transplanted a black persons penis on me.

KathleenD
09-10-2010, 04:56 PM
I'm very pale. She thought it looked silly. I have a big penis, and then I had very scrawny thighs. So it probably did look silly. Like I'd transplanted a black persons penis on me.


I just finished two hours of work on my day job... where people have a tendency to say things like "pics or it didn't happen."

I'm not saying that. I'm just saying I thought it.

Satori1977
09-10-2010, 06:09 PM
I'm very pale. She thought it looked silly. I have a big penis, and then I had very scrawny thighs. So it probably did look silly. Like I'd transplanted a black persons penis on me.

I think a lot of women would like that. :D

MarkEsq
09-12-2010, 05:11 PM
I see you wrote the scene, which makes me a little late to the party. But one thought I had was that if she's trying to keep him on a sexual plane she could take him to the brink then just get up and walk away. Trust me, he won't be thinking about flowers, walks on the beach, or fluffy clouds after that.

As for the swallowing debate, well, it's never my choice but I now have a huge crush on Scarlet Peaches. More of one.

Dr. Zoid... hilarious. Me, I have muscular thighs that are perfect for ladies who like to be spanked while draped over them. The size of my love wand, however, shall remain a carefully guarded secret.

scarletpeaches
09-12-2010, 05:14 PM
I see you wrote the scene, which makes me a little late to the party. But one thought I had was that if she's trying to keep him on a sexual plane she could take him to the brink then just get up and walk away. Trust me, he won't be thinking about flowers, walks on the beach, or fluffy clouds after that.

As for the swallowing debate, well, it's never my choice but I now have a huge crush on Scarlet Peaches. More of one.

Dr. Zoid... hilarious. Me, I have muscular thighs that are perfect for ladies who like to be spanked while draped over them. The size of my love wand, however, shall remain a carefully guarded secret.One reciprocates with ardour.

Manuel Royal
09-13-2010, 03:26 AM
One thing that does seem to be common is younger generations view oral sex as more casual than vaginal intercourse, while older generations view it as much more intimate for some reason.Would you like to know the reason?

ETA: Actually, you need to think about that for a while first. If you can work it out, you'll have some potential for writing thoughtful erotica. (It doesn't matter whether you share the view in question; you just have to understand it.)

LBlankenship
09-13-2010, 04:37 AM
Would you like to know the reason?


AIDS?

And does this include why anal sex doesn't seem to be considered "real" sex by a lot of people younger than me, either?

Leigh.Lyons
09-16-2010, 02:13 PM
I'm a bit stuck at the moment - realized there was this group of people who wrote the same sort of things I write that I could ask for help :)

Erotic romance. The story kicked off with an encounter between strangers looking for a one night stand. They found one. They used a condom, however, and will continue using them until much later in the story. It was good enough that they planned to get together again.

This scene is set the next day. They've accidentally run into each other. He is clearly fascinated by her, but she wants to keep their relationship strictly sexual, so she keeps nudging the conversation back to steamy as opposed to personal.

That's the emotional underpinning to the scene.

They are now in a semi-private outdoor space. She has enjoyed an orgasm and wants to return the favor. She goes down on him.

I am now at the... er... end of the scene. My instinct, character-wise, is that she wants to swallow. However, I got my sex ed classes when AIDS was raging, and that is Just Not Safe. Technically, neither is oral, but who wants to live in a world without oral?

So I'm trying to decide - go with my original plan, or have him hand her a handkerchief?

What say you, experts?

As someone getting a degree in sexology, I can say that if she gave him head without a condom, she should just swallow. If he had an SDI she would have gotten it anyway. Fellatio without a condom is just as risky whether she takes his cum or not. There was an article... ugh >.< sorry boring psych/health stuff :poke:.

She should swallow.

Nya RAyne
09-16-2010, 09:49 PM
Swallow and then she should go back for more.

Fame<Infamy
09-27-2010, 11:58 PM
People seem to often disregard STDs when giving head anyway. But swallowing seems like the more intimate thing to do, in the real world I would say she might not unless she enjoys it. But I've heard from some girls before that they will only swallow if they love a guy etc.

dangerousbill
09-28-2010, 10:55 PM
...I am now at the... er... end of the scene. My instinct, character-wise, is that she wants to swallow. However, I got my sex ed classes when AIDS was raging, and that is Just Not Safe. Technically, neither is oral, but who wants to live in a world without oral?

For the last ten years, the long term studies (yes, I've looked them up for this very purpose) have shown that the risk of HIV transmission by oral sex is very low, less for cunnilingus than for fellatio. But the risk is not zero.

The usual precautions, no cuts or open oral sores, or recent dental cleaning, etc.

Dangerous Bill

elfletcherauthor
02-21-2011, 07:11 PM
i agree to swallow is rather personal, but spitting is just not sexy, either switch to the hand or swallow, because like many women she likes the taste, or she feels control by taking, and keeping without his permission

KimJo
02-21-2011, 07:39 PM
I recently had an editor ask me why my heroine didn't insist on a condom for oral when she had made a big deal out of being sure she and the hero used one for intercourse. My immediate (mental) response was "Who the bleep uses a condom for oral???" I added a little bit into the narrative with the heroine thinking that some people might find it weird that she didn't insist on a condom for oral when she did for intercourse, but she just didn't see the point in using one for oral.

Haven't heard back from the editor on that one yet...

I know a number of people who engage in casual sex. The only thing any of them have ever mentioned about "safer sex" during oral is not swallowing. None of them have mentioned using condoms or dental dams or whatever. (Then again, several of them don't use condoms for intercourse, either.)

veinglory
02-21-2011, 08:21 PM
I have certainly heard or condoms and dental dams for oral. The risk may not be as high but it is still there (e.g. HIV risk view small cuts, gum damage during tooth brushing or flossing). If someone is very sexually active this might be an issue, if not I doubt it would occur to them. More a matter of characterisation than safe sex per se.

brainstorm77
02-21-2011, 09:38 PM
I recently had an editor ask me why my heroine didn't insist on a condom for oral when she had made a big deal out of being sure she and the hero used one for intercourse. My immediate (mental) response was "Who the bleep uses a condom for oral???" I added a little bit into the narrative with the heroine thinking that some people might find it weird that she didn't insist on a condom for oral when she did for intercourse, but she just didn't see the point in using one for oral.

Haven't heard back from the editor on that one yet...

I know a number of people who engage in casual sex. The only thing any of them have ever mentioned about "safer sex" during oral is not swallowing. None of them have mentioned using condoms or dental dams or whatever. (Then again, several of them don't use condoms for intercourse, either.)

I think that editor needs to realize that readers do like a little escape and fantasy...

dangerousbill
02-21-2011, 09:49 PM
I know a number of people who engage in casual sex. The only thing any of them have ever mentioned about "safer sex" during oral is not swallowing.

Not true. Once in the stomach, the acid and other stuff in there will kill the virus dead in seconds. The HIV virus is as fragile as a soap bubble.

The virus can't penetrate the oral mucosa either. It has to find its way in through a lesion in the mouth, perhaps the inflamed tissue of a throat infection, perhaps the tiny cuts made during dental cleaning (which heal in a day).

In principle, swallowing should be safer, especially if the active partner rinses his/er mouth soon after. The less time the semen is in the mouth, the safer. But the incidence of transmission by oral is already very low.

(A biochemist, not a real doctor. They won't let me play one on TV either.)

Sad Soup-eating Girl
02-21-2011, 11:54 PM
I literally gave hundreds of men orgasms without swallowing that imho utterly disgusting, gagging stuff. Hankey? Nah, facial is great and arousing, or on the breasts, or into the hand. Or into the mouth (ideally under the tongue) and spit. As long as the spitting isn't too ostentative, it's not frowned upon except by swallow-fans. Often they'd just take over and shoot on their own belly, the orgasm from the blowjob itself still ringing in their ears, no regrets.
Also, I don't know how important HIV awareness is to your story. Because people hardly ever question the safety of a sexual act in a work of fiction, the consequences simply don't matter unless it's about safety, responsibility and hygene and stuff like in Wetlands or Kids (movie). Just as nobody asks if the woman really wants a baby from that random dude. If it's sex for the sake of sex or romance, nobody cares about the consequences. One would have to assume everyone carries HIV.

BunnyMaz
02-22-2011, 12:01 AM
She doesn't have to be in front of him to jerk him off. If she's standing on his side or even behind him, she doesn't have to, uh, duck the squirt. And bonus! No eye contact that way. Plus bonus if she goes behind him, excellent angle for nipple attacks, grabbing is throat and lifting his head back, putting spare fingers in mouth for sucking on...

I'd swallow myself - never saw the point in spitting it out and making a mess, plus if it tastes nasty you can avoid having to taste it at all, but if she is trying to avoid emotional issues here and/or send a message then I agree, spitting afterwards sends a very definite message. At least from a woman's perspective, maybe?

And does this include why anal sex doesn't seem to be considered "real" sex by a lot of people younger than me, either?

What?! But... casual anal... hurts!

veinglory
02-22-2011, 01:25 AM
HIV is not the only oral risk, and it is not only an arena for M to F risks. E.g. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1358845/Oral-sex-bigger-cause-throat-cancer-tobacco.html

The risks even for genital contact are low, for oral lower--but if you lose the lottery the outcomes can be fatal. So there is nothing wrong with knowing exactly what the risks are and taking whatever precautions seem wise. A lot of erotica publishers have his as part of their style guide.

GregS
02-22-2011, 07:19 AM
Does the whole AIDS thing come up elsewhere? If not, that's a lousy time to introduce it. :)

Across the board in my experience (both personal and anecdotal) people don't think about it. And, having had your protag's "moment" (from the male side, anyways), I will say that swallowing is much easier logistically. Getting stuff on the front of your pants, or trying to disengage in time to catch it (without ruining the moment) is tough.

Sad Soup-eating Girl
02-22-2011, 12:45 PM
So there is nothing wrong with knowing exactly what the risks are and taking whatever precautions seem wise.
That would be, masturbating with a condom for men and with gloves on for women. No sexual act involving 2 or more partners is ever 100% safe.

SouthernFriedJulie
02-22-2011, 06:37 PM
Swallowing isn't always personal. It's just another way to make a guy feel special in the super huge Bag O' BJ Tricks for many women or men.

Just go with how you think your character would act. Get in her head (oh, look, I'm punny) and your story will be smoother.

I'd much rather see a character swallow than begin chewing on latex bubblegum.

By the way, SP, I want to lick your avatar. Ackles makes me tingly.

scarletpeaches
02-22-2011, 06:42 PM
I've had more comments on my avatar lately, than my actual posts.

SouthernFriedJulie
02-22-2011, 06:45 PM
I've had more comments on my avatar lately, than my actual posts.

He has that effect. I made a wallpaper for my desktop with it a while back, maybe 2 years ago? http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb265/PootDiddy/deanbackgrnd.jpg

Not the best, but hey...I was able to play with Dean.

scarletpeaches
02-22-2011, 06:47 PM
*right click*

*save*

SouthernFriedJulie
02-22-2011, 06:56 PM
*right click*

*save*

*swallow*

scarletpeaches
02-22-2011, 07:03 PM
*right click*

*save**swallow**snerk*

KimJo
02-22-2011, 10:44 PM
I think that editor needs to realize that readers do like a little escape and fantasy...

I think the editor would have let the oral-sans-condom pass if I hadn't written the heroine making a big deal about having the hero use a condom for intercourse. If they hadn't used a condom for intercourse and then not for oral, the editor probably wouldn't have had a problem with it. She just thought it was contradictory for the characters to use a condom for full-on sex and not for oral. Still struck me as a little odd, though... that was the first time I'd gotten a comment like that, and I never have my characters using protection for oral.

Not true. Once in the stomach, the acid and other stuff in there will kill the virus dead in seconds. The HIV virus is as fragile as a soap bubble.

The virus can't penetrate the oral mucosa either. It has to find its way in through a lesion in the mouth, perhaps the inflamed tissue of a throat infection, perhaps the tiny cuts made during dental cleaning (which heal in a day).

In principle, swallowing should be safer, especially if the active partner rinses his/er mouth soon after. The less time the semen is in the mouth, the safer. But the incidence of transmission by oral is already very low.

(A biochemist, not a real doctor. They won't let me play one on TV either.)

LOL. I'm not saying not swallowing is necessarily safer than swallowing, just that my "swinger" acquaintances claim it is.

veinglory
02-22-2011, 11:12 PM
That would be, masturbating with a condom for men and with gloves on for women. No sexual act involving 2 or more partners is ever 100% safe.

Where did I say 100% safe? I said exactly what you quoted.

People take diffent approaches and using barriers for oral is one of the options.

VoireyLinger
02-22-2011, 11:17 PM
I'm a bit stuck at the moment - realized there was this group of people who wrote the same sort of things I write that I could ask for help :)

Erotic romance. The story kicked off with an encounter between strangers looking for a one night stand. They found one. They used a condom, however, and will continue using them until much later in the story. It was good enough that they planned to get together again.

This scene is set the next day. They've accidentally run into each other. He is clearly fascinated by her, but she wants to keep their relationship strictly sexual, so she keeps nudging the conversation back to steamy as opposed to personal.

That's the emotional underpinning to the scene.

They are now in a semi-private outdoor space. She has enjoyed an orgasm and wants to return the favor. She goes down on him.

I am now at the... er... end of the scene. My instinct, character-wise, is that she wants to swallow. However, I got my sex ed classes when AIDS was raging, and that is Just Not Safe. Technically, neither is oral, but who wants to live in a world without oral?

So I'm trying to decide - go with my original plan, or have him hand her a handkerchief?

What say you, experts?


Without reading other responses...

Most books I've read have swallowing, but seriously, the few that had her spit always intrigued me more. it seemed like a very real little detail that make the characters more interesting. Do what feels right. That said, thus far mine have all been swallowers.

And if you are worried about disease, use a condom for BJs. You don't have to swallow to get infected.

dangerousbill
02-22-2011, 11:39 PM
LOL. I'm not saying not swallowing is necessarily safer than swallowing, just that my "swinger" acquaintances claim it is.

Now you have it from the horse's mouth: Swallowing is good for the health.

We all live on a scale of risks. There is also a chance that while we're busy screwing, a watermelon dropped by a passing aircraft will crash through the roof and kill us. On my scale of risks, going down on a lady whose habits I know fairly well merits climbing a little further up the risk ladder. Likewise for the BJ.

Chances of being killed on a coast-to-coast auto trip: 1 in 740.
Chances of developing cancer or heart disease from HRT: 1 in 354.
Chances of being killed or maimed by your lawnmower: 1 in 500.
Chances that any statistic you read is just made up on the spot: 1 in 2.

SirDreamWeavings
02-23-2011, 12:27 AM
My instinct, character-wise, is that she wants to swallow. However, I got my sex ed classes when AIDS was raging, and that is Just Not Safe. Technically, neither is oral, but who wants to live in a world without oral?

Not a medical expert here, but my understanding is that there is no more danger (perhaps less danger!) from having contact with the semen than there is in the skin-to-skin contact (or foreskin-to-mouth, to give myself a little thrill <grin>). I'd say, if she's worried about catching a disease, she left it a little too late...

> "Sir Drew"
Play with passion. Be compassionate. Be respectful of each other.

scarletpeaches
02-23-2011, 01:13 AM
If you're not gonna swallow, don't put it in your mouth.

SouthernFriedJulie
02-23-2011, 01:17 AM
Just to throw more into the mix: If she isn't using some sort of barrier, she's already swallowed. Pre-cum has a tendency to be there pre-cumming. [ba-dum-dum]

SouthernFriedJulie
02-23-2011, 01:18 AM
If you're not gonna swallow, don't put it in your mouth.

That goes perfectly with your Om Nom Nom tagline.

Sad Soup-eating Girl
02-23-2011, 01:18 AM
Not a medical expert here, but my understanding is that there is no more danger (perhaps less danger!) from having contact with the semen than there is in the skin-to-skin contact (or foreskin-to-mouth, to give myself a little thrill <grin>). I'd say, if she's worried about catching a disease, she left it a little too late...
Whoever told you that, needs to be sued for dangerous misinformation. I was also told that semen can creep all the way up your knee into your vagina and knock you up.

scarletpeaches
02-23-2011, 01:19 AM
I love you guys.

French Maiden
11-10-2011, 03:09 PM
I only became aware that you couyld get AIDS from giving head just a couple years ago.
I read somewhere that the chances of it actually occuring were really rare.

You'l have to have an open wound in your mouth, and considering the mouth is the fastest healing part of the body the chances of that were unlikely.

why dont you have her give him, head, but have him blow his load on her clevage or something?

dangerousbill
11-10-2011, 08:50 PM
You'l have to have an open wound in your mouth, and considering the mouth is the fastest healing part of the body the chances of that were unlikely.


And 48 hours after having your teeth cleaned at the dentist's.

Using a mechanical or a hard toothbrush increases the risk by making minute surface scratches on the gums, probably increases the risk from 0.001% to 0.01%.

There are medical researchers who actually study this. That's how they found out that HPV is as dangerous to men as to women.

Maryn
11-10-2011, 10:37 PM
No to mention people like me, who chew at the inside of their cheeks like it was food. I'm especially bad when I'm reading.

Not that this excuses me from oral...

Maryn, careful not to chew then

quicklime
11-11-2011, 12:09 AM
I only became aware that you couyld get AIDS from giving head just a couple years ago.
I read somewhere that the chances of it actually occuring were really rare.

You'l have to have an open wound in your mouth, and considering the mouth is the fastest healing part of the body the chances of that were unlikely.

why dont you have her give him, head, but have him blow his load on her clevage or something?

i don't know the exact odds of transmission, but:

sex is risky. last I heard, condom use is dropping and oral sex is going way up among adolescents....the notion is somehow oral is "safer". (well, it IS hard to get pregnant that way). AIDS isn't quite the spectre it used to be.


The bottom line is unless your character is a hypochondriac, very few women (or guys) seem to fret a whole lot about getting a mouthful. So if they are a hyopchondriac, and it fits character, have them spit, gargle with bleach, whatever, but if not, well, lots of regular folk go to town on naughty-parts now without transmission being a major concern. Note that isn't an endorsement on my part, but it is a fairly reasonable observation from what I know at least.

dangerousbill
11-11-2011, 10:35 PM
IMHO, as a reader, talk of safe sex even if it's alluded to, rips me right out of the story.


I generally work it in, although I make it part of the story. For example, in one of mine, the FMC is a nurse who does pre-employment blood tests on the MMC and surreptitiously includes STD tests. The women are often on birth control, and that works into the story, too; for example, they may have to wait until the pill is effective, and resort to oral during that time.

It's just like life, where you can demand your partner provide a notarized list of medical tests before having sex, or you can use what you know about his/er history to judge whether it's safe to go ahead or not, which is what most of us do.

Maryn
11-11-2011, 11:57 PM
I also remind myself that while I'm responsible and cautious, my characters may not be. There are still lots of people who don't use adequate protection against disease or pregnancy, not because they don't know what to do or can't afford it, but because they think just this one time, they simply can't wait.

Maryn, so responsible and cautious The Kid was unplanned

tedi.s
11-15-2011, 03:47 AM
Yea, I have characters that usually are. But dang it (like all FIVE of my accident nephews and nieces) the condoms don't always roll out.

seeker_nomad
11-15-2011, 05:34 PM
Swallowing is no less safe than unprotected oral. Transmission rates via genital/oral contacts are very rare (one study found no cases of transmission between HIV positve & HIV negative partners during 10, 295 active and 10,658 passive oral–genital contacts) (del Romero et al., 2002).

Syphillis & gonorrhea are more transmissible via the genital-oral route but again not very likely. Also, both are curable with antibiotics so that might inform your characters' decision-making process.

HPV and herpesviruses are a concern. But they are spread just as easily by kissing if there's an existing oral infection. Imagine if we never kissed without making our partners get a medical examination first!

Finally, for everything listed above, they already exposed each other when he went down on her (assuming that's how he brought her to orgasm). It's strange to me that we never think about picking up diseases from performing oral on a woman. :)

Fruitbat
11-15-2011, 06:47 PM
I think men care much more about where they get to finish off than what is done with it afterwards.

Also, why would she have to spit it out on the floor with impressive honking sounds or sit there like she's demented, with it running down her face? Why would she have to "look like a tool?" It could be discreetly disposed of into a towel.

dangerousbill
11-15-2011, 07:42 PM
It's strange to me that we never think about picking up diseases from performing oral on a woman. :)

Some things are worth the risk.

dangerousbill
11-15-2011, 07:45 PM
Also, why would you have to spit it out on the floor with impressive honking sounds or sit there like you're demented, with it running down your face?


Yes indeed. Also, never tell a really funny joke right afterward. It's one thing to be sprayed with coffee or Coke, quite another when...

Fruitbat
11-15-2011, 08:23 PM
ROFL!

gothicangel
12-15-2011, 02:58 PM
Swallowing is no less safe than unprotected oral. Transmission rates via genital/oral contacts are very rare (one study found no cases of transmission between HIV positve & HIV negative partners during 10, 295 active and 10,658 passive oral–genital contacts) (del Romero et al., 2002).

Syphillis & gonorrhea are more transmissible via the genital-oral route but again not very likely. Also, both are curable with antibiotics so that might inform your characters' decision-making process.

HPV and herpesviruses are a concern. But they are spread just as easily by kissing if there's an existing oral infection. Imagine if we never kissed without making our partners get a medical examination first!

Finally, for everything listed above, they already exposed each other when he went down on her (assuming that's how he brought her to orgasm). It's strange to me that we never think about picking up diseases from performing oral on a woman. :)

Just what I was about to say!