Blood sources

frolzagain · Aug 29, 2010

I'm doing some brainstorming on a sequel to a vampire story i've written and i have a character who is trying to give up killing people. Animal blood isn't doing the trick so i need to find another source of human blood for her to survive on. I've seen a lot of stories that use blood banks or hospitals so i would kind of like to come up with something a bit more creative. I've seen a lot of stories with donors as well so i'd prefer to stay away from them. Anyone got any ideas? I've thought about having her take it from corpses somehow but i have no idea how long blood lasts in a dead body, so if there are any experts on dead bodies i could use your help as well. I feel a bit weird even asking that but i guess thats what i get for writing a vamp story.

Thanks for your help.

maggi90w1 · Aug 29, 2010

I would say he good draw blood from a corpse for about 24-36 hours (the earlier the better tough). After that timespan the blood would be too thick to be drawn from the veins.
As far as I know.

lbender · Aug 29, 2010

I'm a veterinarian, and I'm not that familiar with human blood. However, there are artificial blood substitutes out there for use in both people and animals. It might provide an interesting twist if your vamp is able to get by on one of the substitutes, even as a short term to bridge his way to his next human blood meal.

frolzagain · Aug 29, 2010

Thanks both of you! Very helpful.

lbender, do you happen to know what the blood substitutes are called? I may have her try a few things out and see how they work. A little blood experimenting might make an interesting subplot in the story. She may start out with the substitue, then move to corpses or something else. I tend to not know how things turn out till i start writing. My characters tend to have minds of their own.

blackrose602 · Aug 29, 2010

Just be careful if you decide to have her use corpses. The concept that "dead blood" (ie, non-circulating blood from corpses) is poisonous to vampires is kind of part of the common mythos thanks to Anne Rice. That doesn't mean you can't change the rules, of course, just give some explanation of how things work in your world (like Rice did in Interview With the Vampire when Daniel was asking Louis about certain long-standing vampire myths). If I didn't know the rules were different, and your character suddenly ripped into a corpse, I'd be thinking "Oooh, it's dead blood. She's gonna get sick!" and then promptly feel ripped off if she was fine. If I knew the rules though, then I'd accept it without a second thought.

Fenika · Aug 29, 2010

Blood in a dead body will clot reasonably fast, but some of it just pools (part of how lividity works). If your vamp is hungry, clotted blood would have a strange texture but would do just fine nutrition wise. The best places to get clotted blood out of a corpse is the heart and major vessels near it.

If you google blood products you'll find actual and artificial ones. One of them, oxyhemoglobin I think, has not been produced for over 5 years but is usually talked about like it's readily available.

maggi90w1 · Aug 29, 2010

Blood in a dead body will clot reasonably fast, but some of it just pools (part of how lividity works). If your vamp is hungry, clotted blood would have a strange texture but would do just fine nutrition wise. The best places to get clotted blood out of a corpse is the heart and major vessels near it.

Hm, she could cut out the tissue where the blood clotted (should be on the back) and eat the tissue with the blood clots in it...excuse me now, I'm going to throw up.

Smiling Ted · Aug 29, 2010

One thing to remember is that "blood" isn't just a single substance.

There are two main blood cells (red and white) the fluid they swim around in (plasma), plus dozens of other substances, factors, etc. If you're really looking to come up with something new, a little research among some primary sources might help you a lot.

Of course, if you just look at blood as a metaphor for life force - which is why the original mythic vampires fed on it, and is an idea that you can find in the Old Testament - then all this is by the wayside.

Ferret · Aug 29, 2010

I like the idea of having your character feed off dead bodies. Using blood substitutes is the basis of the Sookie Stackhouse novels and the True Blood TV series based on those novels.

GeorgeK · Aug 29, 2010

Blood agar is used

in microbiology, it is common to use blood agar plates to culture bacteria. Everyone from hospitals, to most doctor's offices have them or can easily order them. The source of the blood varies by cost and other logistics. Some agar plates are made from expired human blood products. Some are from slaughter house blood of a variety of sources.

Some vampires might call them cookies.

DavidZahir · Aug 29, 2010

There is a blood substitute for humans called hemopure. It is currently only approved for sale and use on human subjects in South Africa. However, studies continue within the United States regarding how to improve it for human use without the (slight but real) danger of things like kidney damage.

One can imagine some kind of private project involving hemopure that might involve producing extra quantities of the stuff. Incidentally it has an impressive shelf life.

frolzagain · Aug 29, 2010

Wow, there are some great response here! I never thought I would learn so much about blood. It's gross and strangely fascinating at the same time. All this extra info on blood gives me a lot to work with.

I hadn't even thought about where the blood would pool, very helpful to know.
I'll try and explain my mythology if I decide to go the 'dead blood' route, I don't want anyone to feel cheated if they happen to read the story. The Sookie Stackhouse series is one of the few major vamp series I haven't read. It's on my to-read list but I may have to bump it up in the name of research.
I like the 'cookie thing as well, I hope i can figure out someway to use it. Thanks for the info on hemopure, very helpful. I did some googling on blood substitutes and found some info on a powdered blood sub. that the military is developing as well. Thanks everyone, great suggestions.

Fenika · Aug 30, 2010

maggi90w1 said:
Hm, she could cut out the tissue where the blood clotted (should be on the back) and eat the tissue with the blood clots in it...excuse me now, I'm going to throw up.

Well, don't read on then

Blood in a dead body either clots, or stays liquid. It's the liquid stuff that shifts through the tissues. So when you flip over a dead body and see the dark stained tissue, they don't have micro clots in them. There's no 'pressure' to activate the clotting cascade at this point.

There's also something called a chicken fat clot...

Spleen and even liver and pancreas are great sources of blood in a corpse. Said blood will ooze with every bite... Mmmmm.

Blood plates are also a neat idea. It's like vampire 'bread' or really, Jello.

GeorgeK · Aug 30, 2010

Fenika said:
Blood in a dead body either clots, or stays liquid..

Actually it does both. When someone dies, the blood will begin a clotting cascade. At some point, typically hours after death, all the blood has clotted. A few hours, maybe a day or so later, those clots will start to lyse since the machinery to make clotting factors is gone. That is when the blood spots or pooling start to show up. There are a lot of variables involved based on size, ambient temperature etc. and you'd probably want to talk to a forensic investigator to get actual guidelines. It's also why some butchers will hang their meat. A few days after butchering, the meat will start to drain...

Monkey · Aug 30, 2010

My knowledge on this is largely limited to playing Vampire: The Masquerade, a pencil-and-paper vampire RPG. If your character can have even a tiny snack on a living person without killing them or changing them into a vampire, there are some pretty easy and perfectly ethical options available.

My favorite was a character of mine who got very close with a group of goth teenagers. They were *thrilled* to get bitten, so long as there were no negative side effects, and some of them repeatedly asked to be "turned" (my character refused). There were various benefits to this arrangement; it allowed the character to "hide" right out in the open, gave her a stable source of blood that was large and varied enough that she didn't have to pull too much from any one person, and it gave her a small group of mortals willing to work on her behalf.

DavidZahir · Aug 30, 2010

There's also the comatose ward in the hospital--or the intensive parts of some mental wards, where you might be able to feed on some people without them noticing (or being believed, anyway).

During Mardi Gras in New Orleans, you could openly feed on someone in the street in front of the police. No one would notice. I've heard something similar about Carnivale in Venice, Italy.

frolzagain · Aug 31, 2010

Thanks for the great suggestions

GeorgeK · Aug 31, 2010

Or they could get a job

as a phlebotomist at a blood bank and simply draw an extra tube from everyone who donates. The red cap tubes (varies by manufacturers) are simply plain evacuated tubes, no additives. Your vamp probably wouldn't want to work in a hospital since there there will be mostly sick patients, whereas donors will by and large be healthy.

Tsu Dho Nimh · Aug 31, 2010

Is she rich enough to fund some stem cell research? Making real human blood from certain stem cells is now possible. Maybe she could work night shift in the lab for them?

She could also get the blood that is removed for treating hemochromatosis - blood banks won't take it for transfusions.

frolzagain · Aug 31, 2010

Thanks for the great suggestions

The phlebotomist thing is interesting. My MC isn't very wealthy. Most of her money came from her victims in the past but since she is no longer killing its going to be harder to get. She does have some wealthy friends she can borrow from if needed though. She is going to be moving around quite a bit but i do need to find a way to get some extra cash in places so i may do something with the phlebotomist or stem cell thing. She has very little formal education though so it may be tricky to get her a very science heavy job and make it believable.

GeorgeK · Sep 1, 2010

frolzagain said:
She has very little formal education though so it may be tricky to get her a very science heavy job and make it believable.

If it helps, phlebotomy is typically an "on the job" training sort of occupation. Hospitals and such prefer them to "certified" because they can pay them less. The only requirement was passing the interview when I got the job several decades ago. However they might have asked to see a transcript that showed that I was taking a college course in some sort of science. That part is a bit vague in my memory. I can't quite remember.

DeleyanLee · Sep 1, 2010

Phlebotomy isn't that easy to get into anymore, George. I work in an outpatient clinic and most of our medical assistants are not phlebotomists. It's a post-graduate class for them that lasts about 6 weeks, IIRC. I could go ask our MAs if the interest in there, but it's not part of the standard training. It's something that most nurses aren't trained to do anymore either, FWIW.

But it is a good idea. Phlemotomists (called vampires by hospital workers, so that could be fun too if she's not used to being addressed openly as such) prepare their own baskets for tubes that they're expecting to fill at that point and no one really questions how many vials you take. There are several clinics (ours included) that add compounds to the red-topped (empty) tubes, but since she'd have control of the basket, she'd know what was what.

It's a thought.

GeorgeK · Sep 1, 2010

DeleyanLee said:
It's a post-graduate class for them that lasts about 6 weeks, IIRC..

Just a guess, (things certainly may have changed since then) but I think that you are talking about what we called "certified" phlebotomists, and by post-grad you mean after high school since there'd be no logical reason to require a bachelor's degree to be a leech, mosquito, vampire, blood sucker, I'm sure I heard them all?

DeleyanLee · Sep 1, 2010

Post-grad, meaning after they completed their MA courses.

GeorgeK · Sep 1, 2010

DeleyanLee said:
Post-grad, meaning after they completed their MA courses.

I'm sure that Master of Arts is not what you are referring to.

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