what now...

[A_Napp]

Well, I finished my screenplay script.
I downloaded 9 pages of agencies ONLY in CA from the "writer's guild"-page and I checked in "agentquery". There not one from the writer's guild agencies showed up, so I think (even if I typed it in), these might be the wrong ones for a screenplay.

I DON'T know, if all these on the writer's guild-page accept anything...

I would now proceed in sending the first 20 letters with synopsis and so on out, simply one after another....

or....? what would you do?

[nmstevens]

Well, I finished my screenplay script.
I downloaded 9 pages of agencies ONLY in CA from the "writer's guild"-page and I checked in "agentquery". There not one from the writer's guild agencies showed up, so I think (even if I typed it in), these might be the wrong ones for a screenplay.

I DON'T know, if all these on the writer's guild-page accept anything...

I would now proceed in sending the first 20 letters with synopsis and so on out, simply one after another....

or....? what would you do?

I wrote quite a lengthy response to this question for the FAQ of another newsgroup.

Here it is.

http://www.panix.com/~mwsm/nms_faq.html

NMS

[DevelopmentExec]

Well, I finished my screenplay script.
I downloaded 9 pages of agencies ONLY in CA from the "writer's guild"-page and I checked in "agentquery". There not one from the writer's guild agencies showed up, so I think (even if I typed it in), these might be the wrong ones for a screenplay.

Agentquery is a database of lit agents for books. Screenwriting lit agents are different animals altogether.

[WMcQuaig]

I'd say to check them against HCD (Hollywood Creative Directory). You can get a online subscription for like $20 a month.

You can also use this (HCD) to help with what NMS is talking about. Simply knowing who you want to go to is a battle in and of itself. HCD makes it really easy with all four of their normally printed books are available in one database.

And I swear I don't work for them.

[A_Napp]

thanks, folks, was not sure about the HCD, if it's necessary. So thanks for the inside advice. AgentQuery for literature - ok. ;) Was all I wanted to know (however, there's a possibility you can choose "movie/TV" in the query...)

And I'm sorry if I have annoyed someone. (I already KNOW my chances are below zero, and I'm quite sure if you don't know anyone who knows anyone in the business, you can be a combination of Dan Brown and Steven Spielberg and will get nowhere ;) But at least I'm not an amateur anymore.)

[mccardey]

Hey - congratulations on finishing! :)

[A_Napp]

THANKS mccardey :)

[nmstevens]

thanks, folks, was not sure about the HCD, if it's necessary. So thanks for the inside advice. AgentQuery for literature - ok. ;) Was all I wanted to know (however, there's a possibility you can choose "movie/TV" in the query...)

And I'm sorry if I have annoyed someone. (I already KNOW my chances are below zero, and I'm quite sure if you don't know anyone who knows anyone in the business, you can be a combination of Dan Brown and Steven Spielberg and will get nowhere ;) But at least I'm not an amateur anymore.)

If I'm the "someone" to which you are referring, then all I can do is to ask you to re-read the document I linked you to and potentially take it more to heart.

That is, to think very carefully about whether, having written only one screenplay -- your very first screenplay -- unless you already have professional writing experience in some other medium -- that is, unless you are a professional journalist, or novelist or non-fiction writer who is making some kind of real money at it - whether it is the best use of your time, and potentially the time of agents or producers, to send out this -- your very first effort.

It's one thing to write your first poem and send it out to a little literary magazine who may pay you twenty five dollars for it or pay you in copies.

If this was a poem I'd say -- go with God. Good luck. No downside.

In that case, chances are, the magazine is one shot deal. Maybe one or two people are in charge of the whole thing, it's published for love and the guy who's going to read your poem is the editor/publisher. Chances are, they don't get too many submissions.

Agencies and production companies get so many prospective submissions they have policies designed explicitly to keep them out. That's because they have so many that they have to *pay* people to read them at about ninety dollars apiece.

If you manage to get past the gatekeepers and get your script to an agent or a producer -- and it's actually not a professional piece of work, you've wasted their time and their money -- two very limited assets that they need to find valuable properties.

And in the process you'll not only make it harder for yourself the next time around, you'll encourage them to make those gates all the tighter for everybody else trying to get in.

So not only for your sake, but for the sake of the people that you are submitting to and for the sake of your fellow aspiring writers, it is of paramount importance that you *not* submit something unless you have really good reason to believe that it is a work of professional calibre and something that is likely to sell -- that is, something that isn't going to waste the time of the people you are sending it to.

And that has nothing to do with who you know. That has to do with your script.

As I have indicated, there are various ways to get scripts in front of people, but that is secondary.

What is primary is to make sure that the script that you are getting in front of people is worth their time.

Everyone likes to imagine that they are the exception to the rule, but the overwhelming majority of people *are* the rule.

And the rule is, first time screenplays (written by non-pros) are not of professional calibre, despite the often overwhelming confidence that the writers of those screenplays have in their quality.

I didn't make up this rule. I'm simply telling this to you because in this, the most difficult market for spec scripts in living memory, it might be to your benefit to spend your time, say, polishing your skills by writing another couple screenplays before attempting to make a sale with a script that doesn't really pass muster.

That, as a professional writer, speaking to someone who, as far as I know is still an amateur (unless you've actually sold something) would be my best advice to you.

And by the way, I didn't know anybody and had no connections at all and I broke in. Most people who do -- don't.

NMS

[zahra]

If I'm the "someone" to which you are referring, then all I can do is to ask you to re-read the document I linked you to and potentially take it more to heart.

That is, to think very carefully about whether, having written only one screenplay -- your very first screenplay -- unless you already have professional writing experience in some other medium -- that is, unless you are a professional journalist, or novelist or non-fiction writer who is making some kind of real money at it - whether it is the best use of your time, and potentially the time of agents or producers, to send out this -- your very first effort.

It's one thing to write your first poem and send it out to a little literary magazine who may pay you twenty five dollars for it or pay you in copies.

If this was a poem I'd say -- go with God. Good luck. No downside.

In that case, chances are, the magazine is one shot deal. Maybe one or two people are in charge of the whole thing, it's published for love and the guy who's going to read your poem is the editor/publisher. Chances are, they don't get too many submissions.

Agencies and production companies get so many prospective submissions they have policies designed explicitly to keep them out. That's because they have so many that they have to *pay* people to read them at about ninety dollars apiece.

If you manage to get past the gatekeepers and get your script to an agent or a producer -- and it's actually not a professional piece of work, you've wasted their time and their money -- two very limited assets that they need to find valuable properties.

And in the process you'll not only make it harder for yourself the next time around, you'll encourage them to make those gates all the tighter for everybody else trying to get in.

So not only for your sake, but for the sake of the people that you are submitting to and for the sake of your fellow aspiring writers, it is of paramount importance that you *not* submit something unless you have really good reason to believe that it is a work of professional calibre and something that is likely to sell -- that is, something that isn't going to waste the time of the people you are sending it to.

And that has nothing to do with who you know. That has to do with your script.

As I have indicated, there are various ways to get scripts in front of people, but that is secondary.

What is primary is to make sure that the script that you are getting in front of people is worth their time.

Everyone likes to imagine that they are the exception to the rule, but the overwhelming majority of people *are* the rule.

And the rule is, first time screenplays (written by non-pros) are not of professional calibre, despite the often overwhelming confidence that the writers of those screenplays have in their quality.

I didn't make up this rule. I'm simply telling this to you because in this, the most difficult market for spec scripts in living memory, it might be to your benefit to spend your time, say, polishing your skills by writing another couple screenplays before attempting to make a sale with a script that doesn't really pass muster.

That, as a professional writer, speaking to someone who, as far as I know is still an amateur (unless you've actually sold something) would be my best advice to you.

And by the way, I didn't know anybody and had no connections at all and I broke in. Most people who do -- don't.

NMS
The first script I wrote (it was a 2-part TV about a racist murder) got me an agent and a place on a prestigious paid writers' scheme. I'd written precisely nothing before. And it was in the wrong font and had unfilmables in it. It can happen.

But I agree about the odds, and I hadn't thought about the consequences to other writers if you send in cack, before. Good point.

[A_Napp]

@nmstevens: sorry, you sounded a bit annoyed by my (I know, stupid sounding) question. So , this just happens when people 'talk' via the net.
Everything is ok :)

Thanks for all your advice - and for letting all of us understand the "other side", the producers and agents.

Well... I published two novels. The first one sold that good (even if it is only a small publishing house), that they took the second one without having me begging on my knees in front of them, you know what I mean ;) This may be my first SCREENPLAY - but this says nothing. I know it is better than much of the already produced things (I don't know, how some scripts pass these gates, honestly, I don't know....) It may be not Oscar-winning. But it is good. All people I let read this (and I don't mean only my best friend who finds everything exciting I write), think this.

(Uh... well, can't believe I actually wrote such things about me... Sounds like egomaniac.... brrr... I DON'T want to hurt anyone here!!!)

Anyway, I HAVE ANOTHER IMPORTANT QUESTION:

What about all these "scriptwriting-contests" you can find in the net? I don't think it is safe to send something in, if not registered before...? Am I right?

[nmstevens]

@nmstevens: sorry, you sounded a bit annoyed by my (I know, stupid sounding) question. So , this just happens when people 'talk' via the net.
Everything is ok :)

Thanks for all your advice - and for letting all of us understand the "other side", the producers and agents.

Well... I published two novels. The first one sold that good (even if it is only a small publishing house), that they took the second one without having me begging on my knees in front of them, you know what I mean ;) This may be my first SCREENPLAY - but this says nothing. I know it is better than much of the already produced things (I don't know, how some scripts pass these gates, honestly, I don't know....) It may be not Oscar-winning. But it is good. All people I let read this (and I don't mean only my best friend who finds everything exciting I write), think this.

(Uh... well, can't believe I actually wrote such things about me... Sounds like egomaniac.... brrr... I DON'T want to hurt anyone here!!!)

Anyway, I HAVE ANOTHER IMPORTANT QUESTION:

What about all these "scriptwriting-contests" you can find in the net? I don't think it is safe to send something in, if not registered before...? Am I right?

I know that I have a reputation around here as the resident curmudgeon, but my goal is always to try to get people to simply understand how a very difficult and competitive business works.

If I were to say that the overwhelming majority of people who want to be a professional basketball player or football player *won't* end up doing it, no matter how hard they try, it wouldn't come across as a controversial statement.

But somehow saying the same thing about overwhelming majority of people who want to be professional screenwriters, even though its true in exactly the same way always seems to land me in the doghouse.

And I have to tell you that what you've said above -- and again, I want to try to say it as gently as possible -- is a classic beginner mistake.

This is how it goes, and I've heard it, with variations, many times:

"I can't tell you how many movies I've seen that are just total crap. My script may not be the greatest thing in the world, but God knows it's much better than this stuff that I'm seeing in the theaters."

What you need to understand, when you try to understand how this or that movie gets made is this.

The criteria that you are using to determine what movies get made and why and what constitutes a "good" movie has nothing to do with the criteria that studios apply in deciding what movies to greenlight.

Let me put it to you this way.

The DeLorean may, by the standards of design and engineering and the way it looks be a "great" car -- but the company went out of business.

No studio wants to be the maker of the next movie "DeLorean" -- a movie that everyone loves but that makes no money and potentially bankrupts them.

No. They want to find projects (and the scripts is often simply one intermediary step in a part of a larger project that may start with a pre-existing property) that makes them money.

It may have artistic worth and I'm not suggesting that they are necessarily opposed to that -- any more than car manufacturers are opposed to their cars being beautiful.

But that's not what they're in business for and if they take their eyes off the prize and start thinking of themselves as patrons of cinematic art -- that's how they go bankrupt.

Now, they can also aim to make commercial hits and make mistakes and also have flops. That happens too.

But it's important to understand that, from the perspective of a studio, Stealth and Remains of the Day are *both* bad movies -- they both lost money.

Stealth may be a worse movie only because it lost more money - *not* because Remains of the Day was such an artistically wonderful movie.

If you were a studio chief you'd probably have preferred that both of them were the Hangover -- which *made* a ton of money.

The Hangover is what is known, from the perspective of the studio as a "good movie."

That is because it had a high concept idea, cost relatively little, had stars that were appropriate to the material, came in on time and on budget (so there was very little downside risk) and it made a ton of money.

Ultimately, as a writer, you have to write what you're passionate about. But you also have to realize that if what you're passionate about is the lives of twelfth century monks who've sworn vows of silence and chastity -- it might be better for you to stick to novels.

And this also, to a certain extent addresses your question about contests.

There are only a handful (like the Nichols) that are worth entering, and you should definitely *copyright* (as opposed to registering) your script before you do. Winners of those few contests will definitely be read by the studios.

But relatively few of those winning scripts, even those that are read, ever get bought or produced, though the winners themselves sometimes get work from them. That's because the criteria that the judges use to pick the winners aren't the same criteria that producers and studios use to pick movies that they want to turn into movies.

They use *artistic and aesthetic* criteria. Studios are using commercial criteria.

So if you enter one of these top contests and if you are finalist or a winner it can help you get read. It may even help you get representation.

But if your work isn't commercial (which is what a studio means when they say that a script is "good") it still isn't going to sell.

So when someone reads your script and says, "Yeah, it's good" -- what they means is, "Yeah, I like it." -- the same way that someone can read a book and say, "Yeah, I like it.

But when an exec reads a script and says, "It's good," -- what they mean is,

"I have to go to my boss and pitch this thing to him in around two minutes and convince him, in that amount of time that this is something that is worth:

A: Committing a six figure sum to buy.

B: Committing ten percent of that to option.

C: It's a project that has the potential to attract star talent and a director sufficient to green light a movie that we're going to minimally spend an *eight* figure sum to produce.

D: And Oh, by the way, the writer has no produced credits and has never written a screenplay before.

So you see, what you and your friends mean by "good" and what that exec means by "good" are rather different things.

NMS

[A_Napp]

I have not enough time to respond to this in detail, but to me - I know stupid know-nothing-idiot - it seems to have a logical mistake in it.

IF many people LOVE a thing (a movie, a car, a book) it WILL make money, simply because they buy the stuff/tickets.

MAYBE some producers should listen MORE to the idiots out there, o it would NOT come to the thousands of crappy critics for certain productions they obviously thought "good" and turned out to be bad because no one liked the shit and it made no money. And I mean critics from high value newspapers AND common Joe-Sixpack.

-----------> However, seems like joining this community is for me worth only one thing, means getting me upset about things I KNEW before (it is like someone comes to you and says: hey, wanna take my chances in gambling, so just tell me where the next gambling hall is - and you answer them with a long preach about how sick it is to gamble and how totally useless and so on...)
...well, getting me upset and giving headache. So, Good Bye everyone. I hope, I can delete my account myself. Otherwise admin may do this for me.

THANK YOU.

[Mac H.]

Nobody was calling you an idiot.

We all want to sell our projects. If you are an idiot then we all are.

BTW - there are plenty of things that people love but don't make enough money to make them profitable enough to make. One of my favourite genres (sci-fi) often suffers from this - because it costs more to film.

For example, the great TV show 'Quantum Leap' required an entirely new set for every episode - and since it was set at random times in the past it also had that extra cost. So it was very much loved - but not enough to make the extra cost worthwhile and so was axed.

And now we are all competing with LOLcats - people would rather spend an evening surfing on the net for cats in funny hats instead of watching expensive period pieces!

Mac

[nmstevens]

I have not enough time to respond to this in detail, but to me - I know stupid know-nothing-idiot - it seems to have a logical mistake in it.

IF many people LOVE a thing (a movie, a car, a book) it WILL make money, simply because they buy the stuff/tickets.

MAYBE some producers should listen MORE to the idiots out there, o it would NOT come to the thousands of crappy critics for certain productions they obviously thought "good" and turned out to be bad because no one liked the shit and it made no money. And I mean critics from high value newspapers AND common Joe-Sixpack.

-----------> However, seems like joining this community is for me worth only one thing, means getting me upset about things I KNEW before (it is like someone comes to you and says: hey, wanna take my chances in gambling, so just tell me where the next gambling hall is - and you answer them with a long preach about how sick it is to gamble and how totally useless and so on...)
...well, getting me upset and giving headache. So, Good Bye everyone. I hope, I can delete my account myself. Otherwise admin may do this for me.

THANK YOU.

And once again, I'm afraid that you are making the same mistake that many other beginners make.

None of this is personal. The fact that you lack information about how a particular business operates doesn't make you an idiot and doesn't mean that I'm calling you an idiot.

The mistake that you are making that many beginners make is that you have gotten defensive.

I am trying to tell you how the business works -- that is, how producers and studios *actually* think. How they *actually* make decisions about what scripts to buy and what movie to make -- whether that's my script, or a spec script by some guy who's written the last Academy Award winner -- or your script.

For you to respond -- well, maybe producers *ought* to do this, that or the other thing and if they did, then --

Then, frankly -- who cares?

You want to be a seller of a particular product.

I'm trying to help you by telling you how the buyers of those products look at the product, how they evaluate it. How they decide what to buy.

For you respond by saying that they ought to think differently about the product is ingenuous.

It's a waste of time.

I've worked in this business for close to twenty years. You've been in it for zero years so if there's going to be a meaningful flow of useful information in this exchange, the chances are that that flow is going to come from me to you.

So if you think that the way this is going to work is that your success is going to somehow flow from *you* teaching the motion picture industry a new and improved criteria for selecting scripts and making movies -- that's not going to happen.

No. The way that your chances of success improve is by you trying to understand the way the people you'll potentially be selling to think. What it is that they are looking for in a script and then taking a long hard look at your work and seeing whether or not what you have written is going to satisfy the people that you need to sell to.

Not the people in the theatres -- but producers and studio executives. That is your market and if you can't persuade them to buy what you have to sell, you cannot succeed.

I'm not saying that you or anyone else *can't* succeed.

People do succeed -- but they succeed by writing a script that satisfies a need that a producer or a studio has -- by satisfying *their* criteria for what makes a good script.

And if you know what it is, you're going to have a much better chance of satisfying it.

I don't post these things because I'm out to shatter anybody's dreams of success. I do it because it isn't enough simply to have a dream. You have to actually have some sense of what the reality is if you expect to have any chance of achieving that dream.

If you choose to interpret what I'm saying as some sort of personal attack or some attempt to suggest that you have no hope and you ought to just give up -- even though I've never suggested any such thing, I can't help that.

Every year something like 50,000 screenplays are registered with the WGA script registration service. Needless to say, that's not nearly the total number of screenplays that are written.

This year, there will likely be less than three hundred theatrical feature films produced. Toss in all the DTV and made for TV movies and the total number of features of all kinds that have any kind of legitimate release and the number will certainly still be under a thousand.

But the overwhelming number of those projects are *not* based on spec scripts. They are assignments. Virtually every TV movie is an assignment. The overwhelming majority of theatrical motion pictures are assignments. Even in the DTV market, many projects are assignments, developed in house.

The actual percentage of spec scripts as a total of the script market is very small. Smaller now than it has been for a generation.

None of these things would fall into the category of "good news." They are not encouraging.

I'm sorry. Mount Everest isn't a small, grassy slope a few hundred feet tall that you can climb in an afternoon with a picnic lunch.

I'm sorry if that news is upsetting to all of you beginning mountain climbers out there.

That doesn't mean that it can't be climbed. It doesn't mean that others haven't climbed nor that others are and will continue to climb it.

But the way you climb it is by developing the skills that you need to tackle that kind of obstacle.

But when somebody says, "Well, I've dome some rock climbing back home. Does anybody have a list of some good Sherpas I can call to help me up Mount Everest?"

Who knows? Maybe you can just get on up Mount Everest.

But you must forgive a certain degree of skepticism on the part of those of who do this sort of climbing for a living.

Especially when those people who've never done this sort of climbing sit down at the bottom looking through the telescope and start talking to a professional climber about the best way up.

All I can say, when I hear this kind of talk is -- the weather *isn't* fine but if you know the way, by all means, come on up.

NMS

[Paps]

The numbers in @nmsteven's article gives a clue to the true nature of the business, which far too many writers overlook.

[Hillgate]

You need to write, and have critiqued and industry-scoped at least 3 or 4 screenplays before you'll write anything 'lucrative'.

[padnar]

It might be true it is very difficult to sell but still I have to say it is not wrong to hope that we can market our scripts . It is no secret that I am an Indian English writer but I am taking the help of a net friend to help me develop my script .
I also find many other writers takes the help of script developer .
padma

[Yamamoto]

you know how you can handle things like this.

1. you could put a stupid video on youtube acting retarded and get million of views by dumb people. This makes you a famous guy and gets you easier in the showbizz/movie world where you meet hot nice girls (probably mom or dad is a producer and you're career gets lift off).

2. you could go to la spend alot of dollars to exclusive party's where you get them vip people sons/daughters of famous people and you're career gets lift off again.

3. you could be a playboy and play some producers woman/man who are like your moms or dads age and get easier your work down.

4. or you could study management business things and get higher up with studying alot like a no life guy and probably get some advantage of the hard studying and be the pain in the ass of someone's dream.

Btw ill take the first suggestion cuz i see if you wanna do it the normal way it won't work while you see people with no talent making movies getting dollars cuz they married some executive etc etc you know this world is not fair nuff said. Or take the 4th one ;)

yam

[A_Napp]

Hello folks,

I just see I'm still registered despite my wish to delete my account. So I can put a lil' answer here.

Just to say it once again, I don't get (I really don't, I'm sorry) why a producer should NOT look for products which people like and therefore want to see. Automobile enterprises do also make cars which people most likely would buy. Where else is profit? But ok, I don't get it, so lets bury this plain and simply.

Concerning my "Seed of Blood" script - I don't want to make money with it - I want to help someone with it, and actually, a producer could get it for free, if this particular 'deal' is fulfilled.

Anyway, I sent out about 15 letters to the agencies, starting with the ones listed under A and working down the alphabet, now. I (and others) think the story can easily hold ground against a lot of the productions from the last 10 years, TV and DVD - direct included. However I know that my chances are zero, because no one even takes a look at the script because of a lot of things.
Well, I cannot marry a producer, I don't know any famous actor personally, I cannot bribe with I don't know what and the only person who could've helped me and promised to do so (WITHOUT me asking, I might point out) totally pulled back without explanation. After pestering what all could be done for me. So, this is life - if you need someone, no one will be there.

So I try it on my own until I have reached the end of the alphabet in the agencies list. And I go and pray for success, not for me, but for the specific cause I wrote this thing. So in the end I can say to myself I have done all I could.

Thats what I wanted to say concerning this.

[xhouseboy]

Concerning my "Seed of Blood" script - I don't want to make money with it - I want to help someone with it, and actually, a producer could get it for free, if this particular 'deal' is fulfilled.



Whatever else you do -- don't ever make mention of this in your queries. It smacks of desperation, and is almost a cast iron guarantee that the script's never being read on the back of such a sales pitch.

There's a million scripts sloshing around out there that could be procured on similar terms. There's also very good reasons why this doesn't happen very often, if ever.

[nmstevens]

Hello folks,

I just see I'm still registered despite my wish to delete my account. So I can put a lil' answer here.

Just to say it once again, I don't get (I really don't, I'm sorry) why a producer should NOT look for products which people like and therefore want to see. Automobile enterprises do also make cars which people most likely would buy. Where else is profit? But ok, I don't get it, so lets bury this plain and simply.

Concerning my "Seed of Blood" script - I don't want to make money with it - I want to help someone with it, and actually, a producer could get it for free, if this particular 'deal' is fulfilled.

Anyway, I sent out about 15 letters to the agencies, starting with the ones listed under A and working down the alphabet, now. I (and others) think the story can easily hold ground against a lot of the productions from the last 10 years, TV and DVD - direct included. However I know that my chances are zero, because no one even takes a look at the script because of a lot of things.
Well, I cannot marry a producer, I don't know any famous actor personally, I cannot bribe with I don't know what and the only person who could've helped me and promised to do so (WITHOUT me asking, I might point out) totally pulled back without explanation. After pestering what all could be done for me. So, this is life - if you need someone, no one will be there.

So I try it on my own until I have reached the end of the alphabet in the agencies list. And I go and pray for success, not for me, but for the specific cause I wrote this thing. So in the end I can say to myself I have done all I could.

Thats what I wanted to say concerning this.


I don't know whether this post constitutes "parting words" or whether you're actually looking for a reply, but in the event that it's the latter, I'm going to try to respond, hopefully in a way that will help you to understand what I tried previously to explain and obviously failed to make clear.

Obviously, you are correct in the sense that producers want to sell movies that the public wants to buy.

What you fail to understand is that a script is not a movie and that what producers are looking for in terms of the scripts they are looking for to *buy* is not the same thing at all as what they are necessarily looking for to sell as a finished product or as a "package."

Let's say you have a successful video game that's sold millions of units, has multiple sequels - and the owner of that video game goes to a producer and says, "We'd like to turn this property into a movie."

So they make a deal to acquire the movie rights to that game, hire someone to right the screenplay, develop the screenplay (which might involve multiple drafts and multiple writers) -- at some point, if the process is successful, they'll bring on a director, budget the project, and attach a star or stars who have sufficient name value -- and it's at that point and not before that the movie will get "green lit" but a studio - they'll go ahead and make the movie.

But in deals like that -- and most movies happen something like that, although books, graphic novels, earlier movies or what-have-you are usually the engendering entity, the screenplay is simply one step in a very long process that leads to the "green light" and the final production.

In only a handful of cases in a given year is the engendering step a spec screenplay.

And there's a good reason for that.

In the case above, for instance, if instead of that multi-million selling video game you'd started with just a screenplay -- even if it were identical to the screenplay that they finally approved -- it would never have gotten through the door.

Why not, if that identical screenplay was the one they went with and ultimately greenlit?

Because they *didn't* green light the screenplay. They greenlit a project of which the screenplay was only a single part. And one of the biggest and most significant parts was the fact that it was based on a well-known and extremely popular video-game. Thus it had name recognition and was, in that sense, already "pre-sold."

The identical screenplay without any name recognition might be a fine piece of writing in itself, but that's not enough, from the perspective of a studio, to invest a hundred or a hundred and fifty million dollars in a production. On the other hand, when you can point to the game and show that an audience has already spent hundreds of millions of dollars buying the game (or buying the comic book, or whatever it might be) that gives the studio that sense of fiscal confidence that makes want to invest that kind of money in the project.

A spec script always has the built-in disadvantage, from the perspective of the studio, of being unknown. That's why people always tend to sell scripts as X meets Y -- where X is one well-known recent and successful movie and Y is some other well-known recent and successful movie.

That is something that a studio can understand. What is this unknown script like? Oh, it's like this other movie that made us a lot of money.

Because ultimately, that is the basis on which they have to justify their decisions.

In making their decisions, they are also taking into consideration all sorts of things of which you, as a writer, are often unaware -- such as other projects that in the development pipeline that they know about and you don't which may be similar to your movie in plot or premise (because obviously, they don't want to be second to the theaters with some very specific story idea). They have a sense of what sorts of ideas are "hot" and which have already been over-sold and have glutted the market.

If, for instance, your story requires a very particular kind of lead -- an older leading man, an older leading woman, or a fat man, or whatever. Sure, there are certain stars who can play those roles -- but a very limited number of them who are genuine stars -- and if those stars are booked, as they frequently are, for the next couple years, they're going to look at your script and say -- we can't make this movie with a no-name lead, it doesn't make economic sense -- and the only person who can really star in it is X -- and X is booked for the next three years. So thanks -- see you around.

On the other hand, if I had a "package" -- the script based on a pre-existing property, a director attached, that rare "green-light-able" actor signed on - and I took all three to a studio with a budget that made sense for the project -- then we're in a different world. Then they'd be saying yes, not to a "screenplay" -- but to a project that had the elements that, from their perspective, made the whole thing saleable.

Even with a spec script, if the star was big enough, or if the concept was strong enough (and the budget low enough) -- they can juggle the various numbers and maybe the various factors make it all work.

But among the factors that they aren't interested in are the motives that the writer had in writing the script or whether or not he's willing to give the script away because of those motives. Seriously. This is a business. Your work, like everyone else's, if it has value, deserves to be paid for, no less than anybody else who contributes something of value to a production. Buyers will try to get your work for as little as they can get away with anyway, even without your stating your willingness to accept that initial offer up front.

Regarding the latter part of your statement above -- fifteen letters is a drop in the bucket, and query letters, as I indicated in the long post that I gave you the link to, is probably the least effective way to try to sell your work, and sending your work to agents rather than directly to producers is, likewise, far from the most effective way of marketing your work, early in your career.

But let me give you a specific example. I wasn't married to a producer. I didn't know any famous actors or anyone else in the business. I didn't have an agent. I was raised in Boston, moved to New York to go to NYU film school - that was around thirty years ago.

I made contacts through cold-calling development companies and asking them to send them my scripts. Some said no, some said yes, some agreed to send me release forms to sign.

And I got meetings this way (in New York). I got my work read -- and I made sales. Later, I convinced my wife, who had a much better phone manner that I had, to act as my manager and she started making calls on my behalf -- and she made a lot more calls on my behalf. With around two and a half years, she'd gotten one script of mine optioned by Twentieth Century Fox and sold another outright to Dimension for mid-six figures.

No agent. No contacts. I still live in New York (although I do now have an agent -- and my wife is still my manager).

Now if you want to tell yourself -- it can't be done, I've sent out my fifteen letters and exhausted all the possibilities, you have to be on the inside, it's a fixed game -- go right ahead.

But there are a lot of other people who know different. And part of what they know is that one of the ways to lose is stop playing and one of the ways to win is to keep playing.

Before I wrote those two scripts that sold to the majors, I'd written something like eighty screenplays -- some good, most of them not very good. And for every call that made a sale, my wife made fifty calls that ended up with a no or got a read -- and then a no. Or sometimes a "no" and a "what else have you got?"

In fact, that six figure sale started out as a "no" and a "what else have you got?" and it was the "something else that we had" that turned out to be the project that sold.

I don't know if you bothered to read this far or even if you've read any of this, but if you have -- take if for what it's worth.

NMS

[ReneC]

This advice from nmstevens is pure gold and the bland truth, no frills, no gimmicks, no agendas. If you're going to get anywhere, pay very close attention to everything he just said (really, everything he's been saying all along). Yes, it's possible to be a one-off fluke that gets ahead through unbelievable luck or enough charisma to get the Devil to set himself on fire, but for the rest of us mere mortals this is the reality. The best way to break into the industry is not to give up and to keep on writing.

[A_Napp]

Well I can't believe I pondered for hours and edited this idiotic post 10 times and finished with deleting everything again. ^^

I don't know what to say anymore, except I read every post in here, and I certainly believe you meant good things. I might add, that there are dozens of "scriptwriting-help-sites" around, and every one contradicts the other, concerning the use of agents, the style of the cover letter, just EVERYTHING.

I have no ambition to earn a living with scriptwriting. This won't happen. You know, when I write, I have an idea, and I simply start. Different people who read my different stories / scripts said I'm an awesome writer. I don't know. I'm no salesman, and if I can't get any attention by my skills alone, so it is just that way.

Of course it is an idiotic idea if an unknown writer tries to land a script to help an unknown actor or so. But it is just the way I am. I want to help, and in most cases I don't even think about what's in it for me. My friends said, try it, and so I started to try it with all good intentions. Obviously, those friends had no idea of how things real work.

So I came to a decision: I will stop writing ridiculous query letters. I don't want to throw my money in the trash bin. I'll make a novel out of it and publish it here in Germany, like the rest of my stuff.

And yes.... with "lets bury the topic" I meant "lets bury the topic".

[Paradis]

Well I can't believe I pondered for hours and edited this idiotic post 10 times and finished with deleting everything again. ^^

I don't know what to say anymore, except I read every post in here, and I certainly believe you meant good things. I might add, that there are dozens of "scriptwriting-help-sites" around, and every one contradicts the other, concerning the use of agents, the style of the cover letter, just EVERYTHING.

I have no ambition to earn a living with scriptwriting. This won't happen. You know, when I write, I have an idea, and I simply start. Different people who read my different stories / scripts said I'm an awesome writer. I don't know. I'm no salesman, and if I can't get any attention by my skills alone, so it is just that way.

Of course it is an idiotic idea if an unknown writer tries to land a script to help an unknown actor or so. But it is just the way I am. I want to help, and in most cases I don't even think about what's in it for me. My friends said, try it, and so I started to try it with all good intentions. Obviously, those friends had no idea of how things real work.

So I came to a decision: I will stop writing ridiculous query letters. I don't want to throw my money in the trash bin. I'll make a novel out of it and publish it here in Germany, like the rest of my stuff.

And yes.... with "lets bury the topic" I meant "lets bury the topic".


Just a suggestion, but you could stop being confrontational about this whole thing. Try a response like "Hey, thanks for the input" and end it there. Nothing wrong with taking some guidance with a grain salt.

[clockwork]

I think this one's done.

A_Napp, it's up to you if you stay here or not, you're certainly more than welcome, but we don't delete accounts as a matter of course.

PM me if any problems.

[A_Napp]

... because someone wrote I would be confrontational, in the "what now"-topic. Which is now closed, so cannot defend myself!

I just checked, and as far as I can read, I said quite some times "thank you" and "sorry" for misinterpretation and bothering anyone! The LEAST what I wanted was to initiate a lengthy philosophical discussion.
I had read different suggestions on different scriptwrite-help-pages (the one said, use and agent, the others said, never do, and so on) So I came here with a simple technical question. "What to do now".
Which, as far as I can discern, had been answered in the vague direction of "don't try to try it because there are zero chances because you have no idea at all how everything works".

Ok. I got the message and I accept that, even if I cannot grasp all the things. I hope it is not already confrontational to say I cannot understand? Maybe I'm just not as smart as others.

Well, I don't care anymore. I don't know what went wrong. It goes wrong in nearly every case with me in such boards or in real encounters, despite my best intentions NOT to embarrass anyone. So I can just repeat, I AM SORRY and I WON'T disturb any longer. If there is any possibility to delete this thread "what now" - it may be done. No use of wasting webspace - right?

Have a nice time and I wish you good luck for all your plans and productions. Be happy because you are spared from seeing mine one day.

[dpaterso]

Just. Stop. Posting.

-Derek