How many pages is "too many" for a chapter?

[Jaycinth]

How many pages is 'too many pages' for a chapter?

A person I had reading for me gave me back my manuscript and said that even though it is double spaced with 1" margins that having a chapter that is 20 pages long got her discouraged. She read 3 chapters, approx 65 pages and said it seemed technically alright and the story had her riveted, but I needed to take the 3 chapters and make it 10 chapters. She said reading long chapters made her feel stupid. She gave it back to me with red marks where she thought the New chapters should be. The places she broke the story don't even make sense, she just counted 6 pages and BREAK!
Most of the books I read have 20 or 30 page chapters, and that is after it is typeset and printed. Some books skip the chapter idea and just put spaces.

AHHH so what is correct?

[katiemac]

Nothing is incorrect, but every reader has their own preferences. Short chapters may encourage a faster-paced read, while longer chapters may slow the work. Depending on the genre and the feel of your novel, this may be something to consider.

Personally, I don't like long chapters. For one, I like to read before I go to sleep. If I'm into a story, I'm much more likely to stay up late reading ten short chapters than one long chapter (even if it equals the same length), because then I say, "Just one more, and I'll stop." On the other hand, I don't normally like chapters that are only two or three pages, even if I read twenty at a time, because sometimes I can't immerse myself into the characters. It feels very "stop-and-go" -- a reason, by the way, I have no patience for driving.

Check out the chapter length of some of your favorite books. Also, it might help to think it terms of word count rather than pages. Natural breaks, which it seems you already are adjusted to, are probably the best way to go.

[Vomaxx]

[QUOTE=Jaycinth] She said reading long chapters made her feel stupid. /QUOTE]

Very odd! I don't think you should pay attention to this particular objection. There is no "right" length for a chapter.

[maestrowork]

The answer is 42.

[Susan Gable]

My chapters tend to average 20 ms pages. Some are shorter. Some are a smidge longer. Don't listen to this advice. Let your story and your writing style dictate how long the chapter is. (That said, I don't think I'd go with anything over, say, 30 pages. I'd probably find a way to divide that into 2 chapters.)

Counting 6 pages and sticking in a new chapter is definately NOT good advice. You want to end the chapter on a hook to keep the reader turning the page. :)

Susan G.

[aadams73]

"Dolores Claiborne" by Stephen King has no chapters.

[cwfgal]

The answer is 42.

I beg to differ. The answer is clearly "C".

Beth

[Cathy C]

42C sounds like a good answer to me!


But really, my chapters range from two pages to twenty-five. I just break it at the end of a "scene," usually as a cliff hanger so the reader says, "Oh, just one more chapter before bed." Heh. :rolleyes:

[DivaWriter]

For my novel, I have really long chapters.

On average, about sixty pages for each, but I also have several scene breaks in-between.

My chapters are long because they are focused on a specific person/scenario. Also, I have a lot of dialogue. I can't say whether or not it's wrong or right, but while writing, I generally stopped when it felt right and made sense. :idea:

[katdad]

Don't just arbitrarily break your book into meaningless chapters -- a chapter should be a "scene" or "critical event", no matter how short or long. Of course, if the event is quite long, you may wish to put the event itself into one chapter, the immediate discussion/aftermath in the next.

But it's meaningful and never arbitrary. You seem totally correct as I see it.

[katiemac]

I just break it at the end of a "scene," usually as a cliff hanger so the reader says, "Oh, just one more chapter before bed." Heh. :rolleyes:

It's people like you why I get no sleep.

[Ray Dillon]

I like to write in really short chapters; 4-6 pages. That's because, when I pick up a book to read, I'm much more captivated knowing that I only need to read a few pages to get to a stopping point. I usually end up reading a few chapters because I'm just so into the pace. I really just hate stopping in the middle of a chapter because I'm too tired to keep reading (I generally read at night).

It doesn't have to be a fast paced book, just giving me breathers every once in a while. Nothing worse than reading a chapter that's 30+ pages. I think I read a 100 page chapter in a King book once. I love his writing, but I don't get that.

[KTC]

How many licks does it take to get to the centre of a Tootsie Pop? - another example of an irrelevant question.

Just kidding. There is no right and wrong. Or, as Ray said, "42."

[NewB]

She said reading long chapters made her feel stupid.
On the contrary, I know some people who say that when they read short chapters, they feel that the author is under-estimating their attention span.

Personally, I don’t really bother about the length of the chapter. If the story is really riveting, why does someone bother whether the story is actually in chapter 10 or chapter 21! As long as the chapter breaks make sense, its fine with me. IMO, I don’t think you should think too much about your friend’s comments.

[aadams73]

As a reader, I really don't care about chapter length. It makes no difference to me whatsoever.

[Ray Dillon]

How many licks does it take to get to the centre of a Tootsie Pop? - another example of an irrelevant question.

Just kidding. There is no right and wrong. Or, as Ray said, "42."
That IS the answer to the ultimate question. ;)

[StoryG27]

How many licks does it take to get to the centre of a Tootsie Pop?

Oh, I know this one! It's 3! Haven't you ever seen the commercial with the owl??? Wow, do I get a prize?

As for my chapters, they can be as short as two pages and as long as twenty-something pages. Basicially, they are however long it takes me to write a scene and leave a cliffhanger for the next...and that's that.


Adding as an after thought:
She said reading long chapters made her feel stupid.
So do short chapters make her feel smart????

[Jamesaritchie]

How many pages is 'too many pages' for a chapter?

A person I had reading for me gave me back my manuscript and said that even though it is double spaced with 1" margins that having a chapter that is 20 pages long got her discouraged. She read 3 chapters, approx 65 pages and said it seemed technically alright and the story had her riveted, but I needed to take the 3 chapters and make it 10 chapters. She said reading long chapters made her feel stupid. She gave it back to me with red marks where she thought the New chapters should be. The places she broke the story don't even make sense, she just counted 6 pages and BREAK!
Most of the books I read have 20 or 30 page chapters, and that is after it is typeset and printed. Some books skip the chapter idea and just put spaces.

AHHH so what is correct?

There is no right or wrong answer. As long as the chapter is actually a chapter, length is largely unimportant. But a twenty page, double-spaced chapter isn't really all that long. I'd say you just found a reader who is a bit on the odd side. And certainly one who doesn't know what a chapter is.

[maestrowork]

Arbitarily breaking texts into 6-page chapters is wrong.

[Ray Dillon]

Arbitarily breaking texts into 6-page chapters is wrong.
Wow. It's the chapter police!! Scram, everyone!! :rolleyes:

Why? If it works, why is it wrong? I didn't say I'd do it even if it made no sense and just cut it off at page six. But, generally, I find (and try to find) a natural place to break right around there (A change of setting, time, character, etc.).

That's like saying that keeping your genre audience in mind as you right is wrong.

Sorry if I seem a bit snappy, but I've had a few too many of these negative responses in the week I've been here. What's the point of it? There are better ways to express your thoughts. It drags the mood of the place down.

:Shrug:

:box: :guns:

Why can't we be friends?

:Cheers: :D :Hug2:

[maestrowork]

I won't argue with you. But show me your ms, and I'll cut it into 6-page chapters, ARBITARILY. And see if you like it. ;)]

p.s. you must be new here. Those who know me and my 7000+ posts would know that I don't "drag" this place down. Sometimes, you just have to get my sarcasm, I suppose.

[StoryG27]

Arbitarily breaking texts into 6-page chapters is wrong.

Wow. It's the chapter police!! Scram, everyone!! :rolleyes:

Why? If it works, why is it wrong? I didn't say I'd do it even if it made no sense and just cut it off at page six. But, generally, I find (and try to find) a natural place to break right around there (A change of setting, time, character, etc.).

That's like saying that keeping your genre audience in mind as you right is wrong.

Sorry if I seem a bit snappy, but I've had a few too many of these negative responses in the week I've been here. What's the point of it? There are better ways to express your thoughts. It drags the mood of the place down.


It's ok to be snappy; we all get like that. But I think you misinterpreted what Ray was saying. I don't think he was trying to say it's wrong that YOU like to end your chapters at 4-6 pages, which is why he said ARBITARILY. If you wrap up your scene or get to a good breaking point, which I'm sure you do, it's fine. But going through an MS with chapters that are already longer than that and breaking them down to six pages even if it's a horrible place to stop, that's when it is wrong, that's when it ruins flow and pacing.

At least, that's how I interpreted what Ray said...guess I could be wrong too. :)

EDITED: Oops. Ray posted while I was writing my long winded explanation...he, he, guess I'm always too little too late. *shrug*

[maestrowork]

At least, that's how I interpreted what Ray said...guess I could be wrong too. :)

Storygirl, you're correct. "Arbitarily" is the key word.

[Torin]

Terry Pratchett's Discworld books have no chapters, only scene breaks. I rather enjoy that, actually, and wrote my first novel that way. Then I had to make chapter breaks and it was a big pain in the rear. Now I put 'em in where it seems to make sense.

[Jaycinth]

Chapter 42 C ( You guys said that was the correct answer. That'll be the title of my next one.)

Thanks for the input. I only had two people reading for me, and when she offered, I thought, "well, hey, she's graduated from college, I'm sure she can critique/edit this." SIGHHHHHH::::::::::

I'm going to go and see if I can find a reader around here. My friends are too weird.

[_AnT1c_]

It seriously doesn't matter where the chapters are broken, if they occur at all. Puting them in is hardly any chore for someone who is experienced at editing, so best just to put them where they seem to fit, and if it turns out to be a problem later, its not much of a problem anyway.

[Lyra Jean]

I'm writing my first novel. I'm making each chapter 4000 words long. It's an arbitrary number but it gives me a structure so I can measure my work. I also have specific things in mind with each chapter I write so I either write 4000 words or until my scene is over.

Okay I don't really worry about word count until I'm editing my chapter. Then I use my word count as a guide to either flesh out or cut back. My first chapter is only 2000 words long but then I could use more description since it's sci-fi and takes place in a space ship. My second chapter I actually got what I wanted in 4000 words. Of course in rewrites all this could change.

It's a starting point and helps keep me motivated.

[triceretops]

Just for the heck of it--between 18 and 25 pages is where I go. Ah, ha, except for the last three or so chapters that gradually descend in size to help with the fast pace of the bells and whistles ending. Tri

[maestrowork]

For the record, in TPB, the longest chapter is 10 book pages, and the shortest is 1 1/2.

My readers seem to enjoy the varying chapter lengths. They give the book a dynamic, organic feel.

I'm not breaking any chapters in my WIP. I will do that in rewrites.

[Jamesaritchie]

It seriously doesn't matter where the chapters are broken, if they occur at all. Puting them in is hardly any chore for someone who is experienced at editing, so best just to put them where they seem to fit, and if it turns out to be a problem later, its not much of a problem anyway.

I think where chapters are broken is one of the more important aspects of a novel. Chapters shouldn't be arbitrary, regardless of length. They should have as much structure as a paragraph, and putting them in well is a very tough chore for an editor.

Break chapters arbitraily, and you produce a novels that's darned near unreadable, or at least extremely irritating, even if everything else works.

It's certainly possible to write a novel without chapters, and it's possible to have chapters that start and end without structure. This in no way means doing so is a good idea, and that it can't affect an editor's decision to buy or reject, or a reader's decision to put down your novel and pick up another.

Chapter length isn't terribly important, they can be one page or forty, though chapters that are really long can discourage many readers, but chapter structure is important, and it matters very much whether or not you start and end them with structure and purpose.

[Stacey Sweeney]

I was reading this thread because I'm editing my manuscript and was worried about having a chapter that was too short. I read mainly romance and actually had to go check some of my favorite books to see if they even had chapters. When I read a book, I don't notice. Well, at least if it's a good book, I don't notice things like whether or not there are chapters.
I thought it was kind of funny to read all these posts and find out that some authors worry alot about chapter length when some of us readers don't ever notice. Which, by the way helped answer my question. I'm not going to worry about chapter length. I doubt it'll be the deciding factor on whether or not my book gets published anyhow.
Stacey
PS In case it matters or if anyone wondered, the manuscript I'm writing is romance too. Chapters might matter a lot more in other types of books.

[maestrowork]

Chapters seem to matter in a book called the Bible...

;)

[ChunkyC]

I never think about chapter length while I'm writing, only afterwards, and then only out of curiosity. As it turns out, almost all the chapters I write come out between 2000 and 2500 words. The odd one here and there will be shorter or longer.

I believe it has to have the proper structure, as James A. said, be a self-contained coherent section of the story. If it feels right when you read it, it works.

[TheIT]

Chapter breaks are similar to commercial breaks in TV shows. Each show is structured to have a specific number of breaks. There's usually something exciting happening right before they cut to commercial to bring the audience back afterwards. Some networks add extra commercial breaks to splice in more commercials, but they always end up breaking somewhere odd and messing up the flow of the scene. Drives me nuts.

[spacejock2]

I average 2 - 4 scenes per chapter, and very rarely go over 4000 words in total. That's roughly 16 MS pages.

Instead of chopping up the chapters, consider scene breaks. Skip a couple of sentences, move forwards a few minutes in time, show something from another viewpoint. It gives the reader somewhere to pause if they need to, and also seems to refresh their interest.

Use scene breaks to skip mundane stuff and they won't be asking for shorter chapters.

[scarletpeaches]

Chapters seem to matter in a book called the Bible...

;)

It was written without chapter breaks, and then broken up later, to make it easier to read.

Which, coincidentally, is what I do!:ROFL:

[brinkett]

Instead of chopping up the chapters, consider scene breaks. Skip a couple of sentences, move forwards a few minutes in time, show something from another viewpoint. It gives the reader somewhere to pause if they need to, and also seems to refresh their interest.

Yes, long scenes irk me more than long chapters do. I hate putting a book down in the middle of a scene. I like to break at the end of a scene or chapter, doesn't matter which.

[maestrowork]

Chapter breaks are similar to commercial breaks in TV shows. Each show is structured to have a specific number of breaks. There's usually something exciting happening right before they cut to commercial to bring the audience back afterwards. Some networks add extra commercial breaks to splice in more commercials, but they always end up breaking somewhere odd and messing up the flow of the scene. Drives me nuts.

It's an interesting analogy, except that with TV shows, the format is VERY strict. For example, a sitcom... you know you have to break at X minute. So you write to that specifications.

I'd probably compare a novel's chapter breaks to set changes in a movie. There's no specifications how long a set should be -- it all based on the story.

p.s. long scenes or chapters irk me. I am very impatient... unless something really interesting keeps happening, then I probably won't notice how long a chapter is. Otherwise, if I see that the chapter (I also peek ahead) is 40 pages long, I would roll my eyes and probably put the book down. I prefer to finish a chapter before I go to bed... that's just me.

[Promoman]

I'm writing my first novel. I'm making each chapter 4000 words long. It's an arbitrary number but it gives me a structure so I can measure my work. I also have specific things in mind with each chapter I write so I either write 4000 words or until my scene is over.

Okay I don't really worry about word count until I'm editing my chapter. Then I use my word count as a guide to either flesh out or cut back. My first chapter is only 2000 words long but then I could use more description since it's sci-fi and takes place in a space ship. My second chapter I actually got what I wanted in 4000 words. Of course in rewrites all this could change.

It's a starting point and helps keep me motivated.

If that is working for you well enough to keep you going, then I wouldn't suggest that you stop. But I have to admit that it sounds a little scary that you write a chapter based on the number of words. Chapters don't have to be the same length. Some authors do occasional chapters that are a single page long. If your chapter can accomplish what you want it to accomplish in two pages, why write until you have 4000 words? What are you filling the rest of the chapter with? Are you really telling the story at that point, or are you just padding until you hit word #4,000?

Like I said, if it is working for you and you're happy with the result, then keep going and keep writing...I just thought I'd ask because it might be worth considering.


For me, because I prefer horror/suspense, most of my chapters are shorter. I think I've written a twenty page chapter, but if I have, it was only one that was that long. My chapters probably average about eight pages, but I've had a couple that are only a page and a half long.

I write until I hit the end of a scene or a point that feels like a natural break. I don't set a goal of how many pages each chapter should be: I tried that in a previous novel I was writing and the result was that I did end up padding pages to get to the end of my preconceived chapter length. It slowed the story down to a snail's pace. I'll never make that mistake again!

In terms of the points about attention span, I'm the first to admit that mine isn't as long as it should be. I've worked in television for almost 15 years, and have watched it for 35, so I'm sure that has helped the problem. If an author is going to make an assumption about my attention span, I'd much rather he assumed that it wasn't long and wrote shorter chapters.

I am also the first to admit that when I'm browsing in a book store and come to a book that looks interesting but is written by someone I don't know, I will skim through and get a feel for chapter lengths after reading the first chapter or two. If I see that every chapter is at least twenty pages, it is very unlikely that I'll buy that book.

Why? Because I hate to stop reading in the middle of a chapter. A well-written chapter to me, is the end of an important point in the story, even if it ends in a cliffhanger. It seems like a good place to stop and a good place to pick up from the next time I open the book. If the chapters are too long, I feel obligated to read through the whole chapter, and am therefore less likely to pick up the book unless I know I have a lot of time, which is seldom the case.


I reached the point of not worrying about chapter length by a combination of trial and error and from reading books within the genre I am writing. Since most suspense novels tend to be shorter chapters (because it gives the appearance of a faster pace), I quickly lost the guilt over not taking each chapter's page count into the double digits!

Just my 2¢!

[Jamesaritchie]

I was reading this thread because I'm editing my manuscript and was worried about having a chapter that was too short. I read mainly romance and actually had to go check some of my favorite books to see if they even had chapters. When I read a book, I don't notice. Well, at least if it's a good book, I don't notice things like whether or not there are chapters.
I thought it was kind of funny to read all these posts and find out that some authors worry alot about chapter length when some of us readers don't ever notice. Which, by the way helped answer my question. I'm not going to worry about chapter length. I doubt it'll be the deciding factor on whether or not my book gets published anyhow.
Stacey
PS In case it matters or if anyone wondered, the manuscript I'm writing is romance too. Chapters might matter a lot more in other types of books.

I think chapters, and particulalry chapter structure, is just as important in a romance novel as in any other novel. Certainly all the romance writers I enjoy make very good use of chapters.

Chapter length usually isn't important, though very long chapters without scene breaks can be tedious for many readers, but romance novel or not, a lack of chapter structure can drive a reader bonkers.

Chapters are seldom the deciding factor in whether or not a novel gets published, but it is a very competative business, and anything that breaks an editor's concentration by interrupting flow can't be a good thing.

[Niesta]

I recall hearing somewhere that chapters in novels are an artefact of the early days, where they were serialized in newspapers.

That may be part of it (certainly, someone like Dickens was serialized in this manner), but go back as far as Homer, and you'll find the Iliad and the Odyssey are divided into smaller sections. The interesting thing about THOSE, is that the works were originally part of an oral tradition, where rhapsodes would memorize and recite the entire work. The divisions helped them memorize it, as well as providing a convenient place for the audience to have a pee break.

IMO, it's good to have breaks, or the story feels like it's all coming out in one breath. Do they have to be formal chapters? That's optional.

[Jamesaritchie]

I recall hearing somewhere that chapters in novels are an artefact of the early days, where they were serialized in newspapers.

That may be part of it (certainly, someone like Dickens was serialized in this manner), but go back as far as Homer, and you'll find the Iliad and the Odyssey are divided into smaller sections. The interesting thing about THOSE, is that the works were originally part of an oral tradition, where rhapsodes would memorize and recite the entire work. The divisions helped them memorize it, as well as providing a convenient place for the audience to have a pee break.

IMO, it's good to have breaks, or the story feels like it's all coming out in one breath. Do they have to be formal chapters? That's optional.

I firmly believe that fiction is still part of the oral tradition. Chapter breaks are good for serialization, but if the structure of a chapter didn't matter, serialized novels could have been broken at random.

And as you say, chapter breaks of one sort or snother have actually been around longer than novels have existed.

[spacejock2]

You need chapters. Minor hooks at the end of scenes, major hooks at the end of chapters. Keep your readers engaged...

If it's just one long slab of text, where's the tension going to come from?

[Jamesaritchie]

You need chapters. Minor hooks at the end of scenes, major hooks at the end of chapters. Keep your readers engaged...

If it's just one long slab of text, where's the tension going to come from?

That's a great point.

[Lyra Jean]

If that is working for you well enough to keep you going, then I wouldn't suggest that you stop. But I have to admit that it sounds a little scary that you write a chapter based on the number of words. Chapters don't have to be the same length. Some authors do occasional chapters that are a single page long. If your chapter can accomplish what you want it to accomplish in two pages, why write until you have 4000 words? What are you filling the rest of the chapter with? Are you really telling the story at that point, or are you just padding until you hit word #4,000?

Like I said, if it is working for you and you're happy with the result, then keep going and keep writing...I just thought I'd ask because it might be worth considering.

Just my 2¢!

No it's not 4000 words absolutely just a guide. I do have certain scenes in mind that I want to happen in each chapter. When I'm done with the scenes I move on to a new chapter no matter my word count.

[spacejock2]

Speaking of scenes & chapters, here's what my current novel looks like. I shuffle the scenes so that the last in a chapter is the one with the biggest cliffhanger (keeping the structure of the book intact, of course):

http://www.spacejock.com/images/YWProgress.png

(Edit: I chopped the pic down, since it was much too large)

[James D. Macdonald]

She read 3 chapters, approx 65 pages and said it seemed technically alright and the story had her riveted, but I needed to take the 3 chapters and make it 10 chapters.


When a reader tells you that there's something wrong with your book, they're usually right. When they tell you how to fix it, they're usually wrong.

[LloydBrown]

When a reader tells you that there's something wrong with your book, they're usually right. When they tell you how to fix it, they're usually wrong.

Awesome concept. And very accurate, according to my personal experience.

[scarletpeaches]

When a reader tells you that there's something wrong with your book, they're usually right. When they tell you how to fix it, they're usually wrong.

I couldn't agree more. It's the old "everyone's a doctor" thing again, isn't it?:Lecture:

[maestrowork]

Jim is a sage for good reasons...

[arainsb123]

I write one scene per chapter, with a typical scene length of 2000 words (although scenes have run as short as 800 and as long as 3500 words).

[Promoman]

It's funny...I don't ever pay attention to word count as I'm writing a chapter. I'm surprised that many seem to.

I try to write the chapter in a way that feels right to me. Sometimes, that's one long scene; other times it's several short scenes between different characters in different locations; and other times it's part of a scene that is broken up after a sudden, unexpected development occurs.

When I do pay attention to chapter length, I go by pages rather than words. The only thing I really use word count for is tracking my writing progress overall and setting a length goal for the whole novel based on the "average" length of other books in the horror/suspense genre.

As a reader, I find that I like some variance in chapter length.

[oswann]

Chapter breaks are similar to commercial breaks in TV shows. Each show is structured to have a specific number of breaks. There's usually something exciting happening right before they cut to commercial to bring the audience back afterwards. Some networks add extra commercial breaks to splice in more commercials, but they always end up breaking somewhere odd and messing up the flow of the scene. Drives me nuts.


Come to France. They put all the advertising between the shows. You can take a fifteen minute pee break here.


Os.

[Jamesaritchie]

It's funny...I don't ever pay attention to word count as I'm writing a chapter. I'm surprised that many seem to.

I try to write the chapter in a way that feels right to me. Sometimes, that's one long scene; other times it's several short scenes between different characters in different locations; and other times it's part of a scene that is broken up after a sudden, unexpected development occurs.

When I do pay attention to chapter length, I go by pages rather than words. The only thing I really use word count for is tracking my writing progress overall and setting a length goal for the whole novel based on the "average" length of other books in the horror/suspense genre.

As a reader, I find that I like some variance in chapter length.

I don't pay attention to word count in a chapter, either. I pay attention to structure, and word count takes care of itself.

[spacejock2]

I write quickly and in short bursts. Once I hit 1500-2000 words in a scene I start to peter out, but a scene break and a fresh start in another location gets me going again. That, or yet another cup of coffee.

A scene from another viewpoint works well as a refresher, although I tend to write the main plot line first, then go back and fill in the 'baddy' POV scenes afterwards.

The number of words per chapter is really the result of the scenes. For example, if I have a 2000 word scene which ends on a hook, I'll make that a chapter. If it's a slower scene with I'll knock up a short snappy one from the opposition's POV to stick on the end (you know the kind of thing - snipping the brake lines on the hero's car or whatever)

I've not had a scene in a published novel go over 2500-2800 words. If I write one, I trim it down or break it into 2 or 3 smaller scenes with jump cuts over the boring bits.

Mind you, if I were describing the mother of all battles in a 200,000 word fantasy novel I'd probably stretch my legs a bit more. I think I'd still intercut other scenes, though. Modern readers are weaned on film, and many don't seem to have the patience for lengthy passages.

[Thekherham]

For some reason I don't even bother with chapters.
Now that's just for the drafts. I may or not divide the book I'm currently working on into chapters later or I may not.

[scarletpeaches]

That's like me, Thekheram. It makes it easier to have it all in one bundle, for the dreaded MSword word count! (Before you all go into cardiac arrest, I do the 'proper' style word count when I'm finished; I use Word as a rough guide as I go).

I notice the normally chapter-free Terry Pratchett has started dividing his books up these days...wonder why?

[Jamesaritchie]

That's like me, Thekheram. It makes it easier to have it all in one bundle, for the dreaded MSword word count! (Before you all go into cardiac arrest, I do the 'proper' style word count when I'm finished; I use Word as a rough guide as I go).

I notice the normally chapter-free Terry Pratchett has started dividing his books up these days...wonder why?

To get people like me to buy his books?

[scarletpeaches]

He doesn't seem to have done too badly up 'til now.

[Jamesaritchie]

I write quickly and in short bursts. Once I hit 1500-2000 words in a scene I start to peter out, but a scene break and a fresh start in another location gets me going again. That, or yet another cup of coffee.

A scene from another viewpoint works well as a refresher, although I tend to write the main plot line first, then go back and fill in the 'baddy' POV scenes afterwards.

The number of words per chapter is really the result of the scenes. For example, if I have a 2000 word scene which ends on a hook, I'll make that a chapter. If it's a slower scene with I'll knock up a short snappy one from the opposition's POV to stick on the end (you know the kind of thing - snipping the brake lines on the hero's car or whatever)

I've not had a scene in a published novel go over 2500-2800 words. If I write one, I trim it down or break it into 2 or 3 smaller scenes with jump cuts over the boring bits.

Mind you, if I were describing the mother of all battles in a 200,000 word fantasy novel I'd probably stretch my legs a bit more. I think I'd still intercut other scenes, though. Modern readers are weaned on film, and many don't seem to have the patience for lengthy passages.

My scenes tend to be somewhat longer than yours, from 2,500-3,500 words, and I thought I wrote short scenes. And I sometimes have several scenes within the same chapter. As long as all the scenes are related, and lead up to the larger point of the chapter, it doesn' t bother me. I rather like multiple scene chapters, and chapters that use scene breaks.

I don;t think modern readers want anything old time readers didn't also want. I know tehre's a lot of talk about modern attention spans, weaned on movies, etc., but when I look at the most popular novels, I just don't see any of this.

Readers seem to like short scenes and long scenes, short chapters and long chapters withouty distinction. What matters, I think, is good story and good characters, not scene or chapter length.

[Jaycinth]

I'm reading 4 books now. Three of them have chapters, one just has breaks. Some of the chapters are very long. Some are short and one book had 5 chapters that are each broken up into smaller 2 & 3 page chapters.

Since I haven't noticed chapters until someone 'nicely' pointed out MY chapter problem. I am now deciding I don't care. My chapterization is mainly for my benefit. ( easier than having a critter say "on page 43 paragraph 2 line 4. . .")

[James D. Macdonald]

Time to quote the master rule again: "If it works, it's right."

[kristie911]

I've been following this thread for awhile now but I've decided that I'd like to throw in my 2 pesos (worth less than two cents!) :)

When I read I prefer a nice, what I call, "readable" chapter...somewhere around 10-15 pages. There's nothing more irritating than wanting to put the book down to go to bed, peeking forward and realizing there are 20 pages to the next chapter. In that case, I just drop the book wherever I am and walk away...it also makes it hard for me to pick back up.

On the flip side of that, chapter break like James Patterson's (1-3 pages on average) irritate the hell out of me. It's very distracting.

[Jamesaritchie]

He doesn't seem to have done too badly up 'til now.

No, but right now he only has half the world. Maybe he wants the other half? No chapters is one reason I can't read his books.

[johnnysannie]

Time to quote the master rule again: "If it works, it's right."

Yes.

Or, if it's not broken, don't fix it.