New Brutal Age Of Screenwriting?

DKM

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This is a topic for the older screenwriting crowd. It seems to me that screenwriting has enterred a new, brutal age. So many agents have gone under; Indies and Hollywood have cut back on project after project. Based on what I've read -- 15 or 25 years ago it was a lot easier to break into this market.

I know that many producers/agents are looking for a good story, but many promising stories are not getting a fair chance. Yes, I know that it may take years for the right story to fit in, or catch an Ex. or studio's attention. To me, anyways, a screenwriter would best be served by exploring other writing projects -- and come back to screenplays at a later time. All comments welcome.
 

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I agree. I made a run at the spec screenwriting market. There are just too many spec scripts being thrown at the market. 40,000+ a year, and they all stay in play year after year.

Soooo.... I'm looking at rewriting my specs as ebooks, specifically for the Kindle and seeing if I can get any traction. Unfortunately, that market is also crowded and faces many of the same challenges. But, at least you can get your stories out there to be seen.
 

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a screenwriter would best be served by exploring other writing projects -- and come back to screenplays at a later time.

Don’t make the mistake of thinking it’s easier to break into the fiction market. I have written and submitted short stories for several years, with limited success. If you do get a story published, expect to make a couple hundred bucks, if you’re lucky.

If you want to turn your screenplay into novel, plan on expanding your story, which sometimes = padding. An editor can spot a newbie novelist as easily as a producer can a newbie screenwriter.

epublishing is an option, but there’s many two-bit companies out there. The legitimate epubs have standards as high as print publishers.

As a writer, odds are against you in any market, screenwriting and fiction alike. Find a form of writing you love and write what you love, and it’ll show through in the form of more marketable work. That’s all you can do to help your chances.
 

nmstevens

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This is a topic for the older screenwriting crowd. It seems to me that screenwriting has enterred a new, brutal age. So many agents have gone under; Indies and Hollywood have cut back on project after project. Based on what I've read -- 15 or 25 years ago it was a lot easier to break into this market.

I know that many producers/agents are looking for a good story, but many promising stories are not getting a fair chance. Yes, I know that it may take years for the right story to fit in, or catch an Ex. or studio's attention. To me, anyways, a screenwriter would best be served by exploring other writing projects -- and come back to screenplays at a later time. All comments welcome.

It's always been hard to make a living at any kind of writing. You shouldn't make the mistake of thinking that some other kind of writing is necessarily going to be easy.

I write a lot in the horror field and I know a lot of people who write horror fiction who are, in the field, well respected novelists who've been writing for decades, have many, many novel published, have big reputations in the field -- and who have still have their day jobs. That is, they still work as full time lawyers or teachers or what have you -- because despite their "success" as novelists -- what they earn writing simply can't pay their bills.

The number of people who reach that point where their writing can do that, unfortunately, is very small.

People can talk about "e-publishing" and all the rest, but to me it sounds a lot like people who talk about making movies and releasing them on-line. I keep asking them -- how do they expect to break even, never mind make money doing it? The financial formula just isn't in place.

Likewise for making a living writing and selling books on line. How do you market them? How do you find an audience? How do you make a living doing it?

So whichever way you go at it, it's tough. It's an uphill climb. There's no question but that things are tougher now in the movie business than it was -- not that it was easy before.

Fewer specs are selling. They're selling for less. Fewer movies are being made. At the heart of the matter is the same credit crunch that hit everybody else, because, though you may not be aware of it, movies are largely financed on credit -- and the credit market, as you may be aware, essentially disappeared. And that meant that the money available to make movies and to finance development -- as well to finance the big debt burden that a lot of studios operated under as a matter of course, also disappeared.

MGM is still hovering on the brink of bankruptcy. A lot of other studios are in deep financial trouble and are pulling back on the number of movies they're making, what they're spending on development, the kinds of independent movies they'e buying, and what they're spending overall.

As to when it's going to improve -- it's hard to say. Everybody is always in the business of touting the internet and New Technology as the future of something or other. Hell, I remember when they invented the porta-pak and everybody was saying how people were going to go out with those things and shoot their own movies and it was going to democratize the making of movies.

That's a prediction that people made them and have kept on making (like the imminent arrival of cheap fusion power) with predictable regularity, and now with youtube and broad band and cheap HD cameras, of course, you hear it all again, even louder.

But you never hear the key question answered. So you go out and shoot a movie. Let's say, out of the ten thousand people who do it, one actually manages to have the talent to come up with something that's good.

What does he do with it? How do people find out about it? Does he show it on youtube? Post it on line? Release it through netflix?

How does he get his investment back? How does he make a profit? How does he make a *living* doing it?

If he can make it for ten thousand bucks and get a million people to watch it for a buck each -- great. If he can get ten million people to watch it for a buck each -- he's succeeded beyond his wildest dreams.

But if he ends up with some deal where he gets reimbursed through advertising at a tenth of penny per view -- then those ten million views literally won't even pay his rent.

Those deals seem to work fine -- for advertisers and for people who put links to clips of their babies giggling who aren't looking to make any money and videos designed to market something else (like music videos) -- but for end user products?

Who's made any money off of this?

So all in all, we have, once again, just found ourselves in tough times. It's a recession. It's always a buyer's market -- and now more than ever.

That means that everything that everybody says about how hard it is to sell a spec and how hard it is to break in -- and everything that you have to do in order to do it -- all of that applies all the more.

Because they are still making movies. They are still buying scripts. They are still buying spec scripts.

They are even still buying spec scripts from new writers.

The trick is the same as it's always been. You just have to write a spec script that is better than anything else that's out there. Better than any spec script written by any of those other writers.

You write a script that is so good that nobody has any excuse not to want to make it.

Write the spec that you can describe in a couple sentences and when someone hears it they can instantly see the movie in their heads *and* not only can they see it -- they *want* to see it.

Write the spec that is immediately star castable. That is, that handful of people who, when they are attached to a movie -- that movie is greenlit -- those people, when they (and their agents) when they read the script, will want to be in this movie.

And more than that -- when they read the script, they will say to themselves -- when we make this movie, with that big bankable star -- it will make us a lot of money. And that's good, because we like to make lots of money.

That is -- it doesn't have any problems, like everybody dying in the end, or controversial subject matter or anything that might stand between it and it making a lot of money.

Those three things -- immediately graspable concept -- they see the movie and want to see it. Star castable. Will make a lot of money.

Just write that script.

Of course, if everybody knew how to do that, Hollywood wouldn't be in financial trouble.

NMS
 

dageezer

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This is a topic for the older screenwriting crowd. It seems to me that screenwriting has enterred a new, brutal age. So many agents have gone under; Indies and Hollywood have cut back on project after project. Based on what I've read -- 15 or 25 years ago it was a lot easier to break into this market.

I know that many producers/agents are looking for a good story, but many promising stories are not getting a fair chance. Yes, I know that it may take years for the right story to fit in, or catch an Ex. or studio's attention. To me, anyways, a screenwriter would best be served by exploring other writing projects -- and come back to screenplays at a later time. All comments welcome.


You're kidding right? Is this Candid Camera?:roll:
Seriously though, I have to agree with NMS that's it's never been easy to break into the biz as a writer. Screenplays, stage, TV, books, poetry or 6 o'clock news, if you ain't got it, you ain't got it.

IMHO, even with the recession and financial crunch that we're all dealing with, if you have a good story, its' not as tough as it was 25 or 30 years ago.

Think about it when.............
There were only 3 TV networks....
There were only 4 major movie studios....
Radio was the largest market you had to beat....
No one knew what Webcast meant let alone the internet.....
There wasn't any movie channels that had their own production company...
The Indie market wasn't....
ect...ect...ect......

There are more places and people to pitch to nowadays than ever before. But then again, there's a lot more competition today. And I'm not talking about the people that graduate from the "I can tell you how to write a million dollar screenplay in ten days" bullshit. Even though those boneheads are clogging up the system a bit.

Hell, even with the social networks you can market your work and if it's good, it's going to get attention. Yeah, a few films have been picked up through facebook and my space.

Being a writer of any sort will never be as easy as trying to be that guy on the trailer putting down those little cones when they're painting the lines on the road.

Brutal????? Naw.....its all in your attitude. Now go write something good and don't make me come back and set you straight again.
 

nmstevens

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You're kidding right? Is this Candid Camera?:roll:
Seriously though, I have to agree with NMS that's it's never been easy to break into the biz as a writer. Screenplays, stage, TV, books, poetry or 6 o'clock news, if you ain't got it, you ain't got it.

IMHO, even with the recession and financial crunch that we're all dealing with, if you have a good story, its' not as tough as it was 25 or 30 years ago.

Think about it when.............
There were only 3 TV networks....
There were only 4 major movie studios....
Radio was the largest market you had to beat....
No one knew what Webcast meant let alone the internet.....
There wasn't any movie channels that had their own production company...
The Indie market wasn't....
ect...ect...ect......

There are more places and people to pitch to nowadays than ever before. But then again, there's a lot more competition today. And I'm not talking about the people that graduate from the "I can tell you how to write a million dollar screenplay in ten days" bullshit. Even though those boneheads are clogging up the system a bit.

Hell, even with the social networks you can market your work and if it's good, it's going to get attention. Yeah, a few films have been picked up through facebook and my space.

Being a writer of any sort will never be as easy as trying to be that guy on the trailer putting down those little cones when they're painting the lines on the road.

Brutal????? Naw.....its all in your attitude. Now go write something good and don't make me come back and set you straight again.


Not to nitpick or anything -- but thirty years ago was -- 1980.

HBO began transmission in 1975. Showtime followed soon after. Prior to that there was a substantial market for original syndicated and local television programming that went back, easily, another fifteen to twenty years and more.

As for the number of major movie studios -- the big six are Warner Brothers, Twentieth Century Fox, Paramount, Columbia (that is Sony Entertainment), Disney, and Universal.

They were all around in 1980. Not necessarily owned by the same corporations but the same studios existed then as exist now. There were also a bunch of "mini-majors" in operation then, others that came into existence in the nineties, many that were later acquired by the majors or were created as subsidiaries of the majors and existed as independent buyers of material -- that don't exist now.

The indie market, foreign film and independent film was certainly a viable market in 1980. When I first came to New York, which was in the late seventies, there were many movie theaters devoted to independent and foreign films. There was a viable audience of movie goers that maintained those theaters and that market.

Those theaters, with one or two exceptions -- and this is New York City -- are essentially gone, in exactly the same way as all of the theaters that used to show second run and classic movies (and there were a dozen theaters that showed those movies when I first came to NY -- every one of them is gone now). The market for them is gone now.

As for radio being the largest market you had to beat?

When? What? How? Where? For screenwriters? In 1980?

I don't know what you are talking about.

As for pitching -- I'm afraid that you are simply mistaken.

The market for pitches -- and I mean even for professional writers with long track records, isn't there.

Producers and studios are flat out not buying pitches. That is, you used to be able to go in and sell a pitch. Tell a producer your idea for a movie and they would pay you to write it.

That isn't happening any more. Not even for major experienced writers with big credits.

So, all of the "pitch fest 2010's" notwithstanding -- if you think anybody can walk in and sell a pitch -- you are out of touch with what's happening in the business today.

In all respects, and all levels, it is, in fact, much harder to sell a spec screenplay than it has been in the last decade -- maybe longer, or to get writing work of any kind in the business.

That is simply a fact.

That doesn't mean that it doesn't happen or can't happen.

But facts are facts.

NMS
 

mario_c

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I agree. I made a run at the spec screenwriting market. There are just too many spec scripts being thrown at the market. 40,000+ a year, and they all stay in play year after year.
Well, they're not supposed to. AFAIK after a script has been all over town, i.e. you've queried every last prodco and agency you could find a contact name and address / eMail for, you need to move on to the next script. (That's why it's good to keep detailed records of who you send them to, especially when you're working two or three specs at once.)
As for NMS' essays, what can I say? Amazing. I want to comment on the online pricing models - I've been following the blog of indie filmmaker Nina Paley and her travails of marketing her homemade animated feature, plus her interesting views on copyright laws and how they have been distorted to screw artists instead of help them make a living. I was interested to see that Netflix pays you a flat fee when you air your feature via their On Demand service based on how long it's up. That should indicate how much profit you can expect to make from your masterpiece, so budget accordingly.
As far as marketing online, the viral trailers of late show how desperate filmmakers are to get people to turn up on opening weekend (Human Centipede, anyone? Machete?) Filmmakers have more power to make and market their films directly to audiences than ever before, but as you correctly stated, the competition has become so fierce the machine is literally eating itself.
These are interesting times. There's a great comedy routine by Mitch Hedberg where he starts the concert by asking his audience (there to see a TV concert) how many people had no idea who he was. He responded to the applause wondering who would go out to see an act they had never heard of, but admitting it was a great idea. :D Some people are adventurous consumers, but they are a rare breed and should be encouraged at all costs. Not making movies that suck is a step in the right direction.
My opinion, I don't know anything by it.
 

DKM

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There's a lot here & nm

Thanks everyone for putting in your pieces, especially nmstevens' input. Obviously, we can see that nms been at this business a long time and can run circles around many. I kind of -- was hoping he would respond. Althou his genre isn't my cut of tea, I'd still like to know what projects he has completed. Hint, hint.

There's sort of an air that I've given up -- far from it. I don't have trouble coming up w/ good stories; that part is easy for me. My big hang up is dialogue. Coming up w/ great dialogue is a terrible struggle.

I'm drawn to movies like Micheal Clayborne and Revolutionary Road. Tony Gilmore worked on the Clayborne script for two years. I'd like to think that the majority of that time was on dialogue. As for Revolutionary Road, the book came out in 1961 and even back then Hollywood was interested in it. Studios have come and gone w/ this story. It took Kate Winslet and her director-husband to put it together -- that's 40 plus years this story has bounced around. Maybe this film wasn't a big money maker, but it's the kind of story I'm drawn to.
 
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dageezer

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Not to nitpick or anything -- but thirty years ago was -- 1980.

HBO began transmission in 1975. Showtime followed soon after. Prior to that there was a substantial market for original syndicated and local television programming that went back, easily, another fifteen to twenty years and more.

As for the number of major movie studios -- the big six are Warner Brothers, Twentieth Century Fox, Paramount, Columbia (that is Sony Entertainment), Disney, and Universal.

They were all around in 1980. Not necessarily owned by the same corporations but the same studios existed then as exist now. There were also a bunch of "mini-majors" in operation then, others that came into existence in the nineties, many that were later acquired by the majors or were created as subsidiaries of the majors and existed as independent buyers of material -- that don't exist now.

The indie market, foreign film and independent film was certainly a viable market in 1980. When I first came to New York, which was in the late seventies, there were many movie theaters devoted to independent and foreign films. There was a viable audience of movie goers that maintained those theaters and that market.

Those theaters, with one or two exceptions -- and this is New York City -- are essentially gone, in exactly the same way as all of the theaters that used to show second run and classic movies (and there were a dozen theaters that showed those movies when I first came to NY -- every one of them is gone now). The market for them is gone now.

As for radio being the largest market you had to beat?

When? What? How? Where? For screenwriters? In 1980?

I don't know what you are talking about.

As for pitching -- I'm afraid that you are simply mistaken.

The market for pitches -- and I mean even for professional writers with long track records, isn't there.

Producers and studios are flat out not buying pitches. That is, you used to be able to go in and sell a pitch. Tell a producer your idea for a movie and they would pay you to write it.

That isn't happening any more. Not even for major experienced writers with big credits.

So, all of the "pitch fest 2010's" notwithstanding -- if you think anybody can walk in and sell a pitch -- you are out of touch with what's happening in the business today.

In all respects, and all levels, it is, in fact, much harder to sell a spec screenplay than it has been in the last decade -- maybe longer, or to get writing work of any kind in the business.

That is simply a fact.

That doesn't mean that it doesn't happen or can't happen.

But facts are facts.

NMS

Not trying to be nit pickier or anything....but you seem to have read to deep my friend...or maybe I should have posted long before I got to the bottom of the bottle of jack. You seem to be stuck on 1980 when I wasn't.

I guess I should have put it like....if you think it's brutal now...you should have been around when....

Does all that predate 1980? Hell yeah. Going as far back as 1912 and 1914 when Universial and Paramount started out. WB and Columbia came around the mid 1920's as did Disney. 20th popped in around 1935.

With the exception of the web and HBO (They didn't start their production comp until 1990) it was all way before 1980. Radio was before Television came around. Even then it was hard for a writer to break in the biz.

But that wasn't my point.

Agreed, without a good rep (sometimes even with a good one) getting a script on someones desk is a tough challenge. Although, not impossible. (I should have said query instead of pitch I guess) You can make all sort of queries...maybe you'll get the magic phone call...but you better have the script finished and ready to go.

Set aside the cattle call pitchfests....the chances of getting an unsolicited script in front of some eyeballs is less than zero. The quickest way to get labled as a nut job is to hand a script to a producer while he (or she) is having dinner at his (or her) favorite beanery. The days of walkins are long gone.

My point was that there are more people (prodcos, agents, managers..) around today than there were say...15 years ago. Some good, some not so good, some bad and even some out right frauds. In todays world, there are even the sites on the net that you can pitch a script. There are more ways to get a script exposure than there were in past years. Does that make it easier? NOPE.

I won't ever sugar coat the industry, but I won't discourage a young scribe (or even an old one) by telling them that there isn't a market even from the long established writers.

The industry isn't dead. Movies are still being made, television shows are being developed, scripts are being read, optioned and bought.

Is it easy? Hell no. Where we will have to agree to disagree is that it's just as hard today as it always has been or ever will be. I don't care how bad the economy is....there is always a market for a good script. The buzz word is GOOD.

I hope that clears any confuzzlement that I may have caused.
 

nmstevens

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Not trying to be nit pickier or anything....but you seem to have read to deep my friend...or maybe I should have posted long before I got to the bottom of the bottle of jack. You seem to be stuck on 1980 when I wasn't.

I guess I should have put it like....if you think it's brutal now...you should have been around when....

Does all that predate 1980? Hell yeah. Going as far back as 1912 and 1914 when Universial and Paramount started out. WB and Columbia came around the mid 1920's as did Disney. 20th popped in around 1935.

With the exception of the web and HBO (They didn't start their production comp until 1990) it was all way before 1980. Radio was before Television came around. Even then it was hard for a writer to break in the biz.

But that wasn't my point.

Agreed, without a good rep (sometimes even with a good one) getting a script on someones desk is a tough challenge. Although, not impossible. (I should have said query instead of pitch I guess) You can make all sort of queries...maybe you'll get the magic phone call...but you better have the script finished and ready to go.

Set aside the cattle call pitchfests....the chances of getting an unsolicited script in front of some eyeballs is less than zero. The quickest way to get labled as a nut job is to hand a script to a producer while he (or she) is having dinner at his (or her) favorite beanery. The days of walkins are long gone.

My point was that there are more people (prodcos, agents, managers..) around today than there were say...15 years ago. Some good, some not so good, some bad and even some out right frauds. In todays world, there are even the sites on the net that you can pitch a script. There are more ways to get a script exposure than there were in past years. Does that make it easier? NOPE.

I won't ever sugar coat the industry, but I won't discourage a young scribe (or even an old one) by telling them that there isn't a market even from the long established writers.

The industry isn't dead. Movies are still being made, television shows are being developed, scripts are being read, optioned and bought.

Is it easy? Hell no. Where we will have to agree to disagree is that it's just as hard today as it always has been or ever will be. I don't care how bad the economy is....there is always a market for a good script. The buzz word is GOOD.

I hope that clears any confuzzlement that I may have caused.


Suffice to say that when you are dealing with an art form that is little more than a hundred years old, the difference between "twenty-five or thirty years ago" and forty years ago or fifty years ago or eighty years ago or ninety years ago is not an insignificant difference.

One should note that such differences are especially important when styles of filmmaking and styles of scriptwriting can make the difference between what's going to sell and what isn't on the basis of what was hot three or four years ago but won't sell today -- never mind twenty years ago or fifty years ago (or was that supposed to be eighty years ago?).

As they say, you're always entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

There are not more production and development companies around today than fifteen years ago. Many have folded. Many studios that maintained production subsidiaries have closed them.

The same is true with agencies. A number of them have folded and many agents have lost their jobs.

There may be sites on the web where you can pitch your scripts, but the chances of a script making it from such a site to a studio or anyplace that is actually capable of green lighting a movie and actually getting it *made* is extremely small compared to traditional methods - which, themselves, offer a very small chance of success.

I speak as somebody who has worked in the business for twenty years and in the times since the Writer's Strike, it has never been tougher.

Stats from the WGA bear this out. What I hear from other writers bears this out. What I hear from other producers bears this out. What I read in Variety bears this out.

Yes, indeed, it has always been hard to break in to this business.

Yes, if one has a great, brilliant, commercial script it is always possible to break in, or if one is already in, to sell it.

But both of those eternal verities notwithstanding, the original poster was asking about the general state of the business - and the general state of the business is bad. Right now, all things being equal, it is harder to sell a script, get a script optioned, and get a good deal if you do sell a script than it has been since I've been in the business.

That's not to say that it has ever been easy to do any of these things.

Only right now -- it's harder than it has ever been.

That is also a matter of fact.

Not a particularly cheerful fact, but a fact nevertheless.

NMS
 

Stijn Hommes

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The screenplay market wasn't any easier to break into 15-20 years ago. It just happens to appear harder because of the economical depression. The competition is still as cut-throat as it used to be.
 

nmstevens

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The screenplay market wasn't any easier to break into 15-20 years ago. It just happens to appear harder because of the economical depression. The competition is still as cut-throat as it used to be.

Once again, I'm sorry to say this -- as someone who actually "broke in" just about twenty years ago.

It *is* harder now. Breaking in is harder because fewer scripts overall are going into development and fewer spec scripts overall are being bought.

That makes the buyers even more conservative than ever before -- that is, the need to justify buying decisions in terms of buying scripts from writers who have a proven track record, irrespective of the quality of the underlying material is higher now than it has ever been.

Now, you might argue that a certain number of pro writers are retiring (simply because they can't get work) so the job market is opening to some extent -- but in no way is it opening to the same extent that it's shrinking.

There's never been any particular "demand" for spec scripts from unrepped and previously unsold writers.

Now there's almost no demand at all for spec scripts -- period. From repped writers. From sold writers, big writers. Any writers.

The hunger is for *vetted* material. Something that's based on something that is, in some way already pre-sold. A comic book, a franchise. A remake, official or unofficial.

Something that the audience already knows and which has already demonstrated itself to be a proven winner.

It used to be very tough. It is now much tougher.

And given the overall economic realities of the industry, that situation is unlikely to change any time in the foreseeable future.

And don't expect to find relief in new formulas on the internet.

NMS
 

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Would it be a good idea to just write and stockpile scripts, and attempt to sell your inventory when and if things get better? Will it get better, or is the industry damaged beyond repair?
 

nmstevens

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Would it be a good idea to just write and stockpile scripts, and attempt to sell your inventory when and if things get better? Will it get better, or is the industry damaged beyond repair?

Ultimately, I don't know what to say about the future prospects of the business -- whether this is temporary "glitch" or a more fundamental repositioning.

Even if it's temporary, I don't think anybody knows how long it will last.

I really think that the best advice anybody can give is that when times get tough you just have to get tougher -- you have to get more competitive. You have to make your work better and sell it smarter.

You slope to success has always been steep. Now it's steeper. So do you wait for the angle to come down from virtually vertical to slightly less than that -- or do you sit down and say -- right -- now how do you get myself up that vertical wall?

NMS
 

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I can totally agree with what NMS is saying. Although writing is truly what I enjoy I am now actually pursuing my acting in addition to my writing. It seems being multi-disciplined is almost becoming a necessity.
 

mario_c

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WMQ I'd caveat the "almost" in that last sentence. Being just a writer in this market and living on that would be like winning lotto - if you have other skills, use them. I'm trying to market myself playing music (weddings? I wouldn't say no), doing post/studio work or maybe sharpen up my programming skills. Not a bad life...