Sending out an SOS--plot problem/question

ThetProf · Aug 1, 2010

Need help on a problem/question that is now bugging me:

I have written an historical romance, set in 1761, in which the hero rapes the heroine who has been auctioned off in a brothel. The hero thinks she's actually an actress/prostitute acting the part of a reluctant slave girl and doesn't believe she's actually who she says she is.

When I posted the query in QLH the rape was the point at which most people balked. Most said it was a big turn-off, they wouldn't read the book, etc. But at least one has said that it's a viable plot device.

I have re-envisioned the book substituting compromise for rape (she's compromised by the guy just by being with him in this brothel and even though he doesn't rape her she's ruined just the same) and with medium revision the ms will still work.

My questions are: which version will be more saleable and does it constitute a cop-out to switch? I wrote it as it came to me (my idea was probably that in reality he would be able to overpower her as so many men could in such a situation) but it does work the other way as well.

Opinions very welcome.

elindsen · Aug 1, 2010

Just my opinion but if the love interest rapes the mc in the middle to end of the story it wont work for me. Ruins the romance.

If it happens at the beginning and the guy spends the rest of the story making amends it can work.

Collectonian · Aug 1, 2010

I've read stories where it worked, but it was early on and it took the hero a long time to make up for it. Would it work for your story if he starts but realizes her protests are too realistic and stops?

ThetProf · Aug 1, 2010

Thanks for the comments

Yes, it's early on, chapter 2 when they meet in original version. The version I'm playing with now has him finally believe her and stop, then she claws his face and escapes. He tracks her down and wants to marry her because a) he compromised her and wants to do the honorable thing and b) his scandal-ridden past has made him unmarriageable and he needs to marry. He's attracted to her spirit, her looks, and her wit as well. He and her brother force her into the marriage then the last third of the book the hero makes amends and woos her. Meanwhile, after the marriage she's confused because he's not acting like the man who attacked her and eventually warms to him.

So far now three people have said it would work with the rape, but having reenvisioned it without it I'm not sure which way it should go.

sunandshadow · Aug 1, 2010

Isn't forcing her into marriage almost as bad as raping her? o.0 Although I've read historical romances where the hero is basically an abusive rapist, (evidence that they do get published) those are usually the kind where by the end I'm shouting at the heroine to not forgive the 'hero', and preferably poison him instead. Since she inevitably does forgive him, that leaves me disgusted and making a mental note not to read anything else by that author. Noncon and dubcon are a pretty touchy subject for a pretty large percentage of romance fans.

I apologize for being negative though. I hate having to express a bad opinion of the central concept of something that's already been written, already had an author invest labor and love into writing it.

In regards to the original question, I guess I suggest keeping the rape, because the book will work better if the most awful thing happens at the beginning and it's uphill from there.

wittyusernamehere · Aug 1, 2010

Not sure if this is overdone or not, but it seems more palatable when the story line follows that somehow they are both inadvertently drugged and believe they must have had sex, but they haven't really. Like someone in the brothel realizes the girl is going to go down fighting so they slip her a mickey, and the guy drinks half her drink or something. Then they wake up naked and assume the worst.

Personally, I would stop reading if the guy is a rapist. Hope this helps.

elindsen · Aug 1, 2010

ThetProf said:
Yes, it's early on, chapter 2 when they meet in original version. The version I'm playing with now has him finally believe her and stop, then she claws his face and escapes. He tracks her down and wants to marry her because a) he compromised her and wants to do the honorable thing and b) his scandal-ridden past has made him unmarriageable and he needs to marry. He's attracted to her spirit, her looks, and her wit as well. He and her brother force her into the marriage then the last third of the book the hero makes amends and woos her. Meanwhile, after the marriage she's confused because he's not acting like the man who attacked her and eventually warms to him.

So far now three people have said it would work with the rape, but having reenvisioned it without it I'm not sure which way it should go.

I would read it as long as its not forced love. Also I pick option B. Option A isnt as believable.

Ambri · Aug 2, 2010

Personally, I would stop reading if the guy is a rapist.

This. I just don't think I could get past that initial set up, even if the novel was well-written and the hero spent the rest of the story making amends.

I like some of the alternatives . . . she struggles, and he stops, or they're drugged, or what-have-you. It's a hard judgment, because you're correct in that the hero would have both the physical ability to overpower her, and, in that time period, it's realistic.

elindsen · Aug 2, 2010

May I suggest the guy not knowing he raped her. Like he thinks shes a whore in turn okay with it and since shes a slave she cant protest. He doesnt find out until after. If he just rapes her I cant see him as a good person.

Amergin · Aug 2, 2010

What's your target market? it seems in some romantic erotica the whole BDSM is alive and kicking (so to speak) But in general -- it's tricky b/c rape is such a turn-off but it's also somehow a common fantasy.

The early bodice-rippers were full of "Heroes" who raped the virginal Heroine. Usually there was some kind of mistake -- I vaguely remember one of the classics [Rosemary Rodgers? Kathleen Woodiwiss?] with a scenario much like you describe -- he was the captain of a ship and she was a gentle-born maiden who got lost on the docks and was was brought on his ship for his "entertainment." She put up a fight, of course, but he thought she was a prostitute doing a Reluctant Virgin role-play. And he was too drunk to tell the difference between someone role-playing and a genuine struggle. Hmm.

Anyway, this was in the first couple of chapters. Afterwards he married her (reluctantly on both sides) b/c it was the only Honorable Thing to Do. And then they set out for the New World. Or something. I'm guessing they eventually found true love with each other, butI didn't finish the book -- Guess I was turned off by the Drunken Rapist as Hero scenario ;-)

I think you might be better off having your Hero *not* rape the Heroine, because even under the various "it was a mistake" scenarios, it just makes the Hero seem too drunk, stupid, or cruel to be a guy the reader would be rooting for, even if he spends the rest of the book making amends.

But you can still have a nice, hot, sexy scene if he tries to have his way with the Heroine - only to realize his mistake and back off. But he's wildly attracted to her (and vice-versa, of course, eventually) and the sexual tension is at a high level to start with and just keeps racheting up from there.

ThetProf · Aug 2, 2010

In the original version he doesn't know he rapes her/thinks she's a role playing prostitute. He finds out days later that she was kidnapped and was telling the truth. He finds her and wants to marry her (wildly attracted to her and needs to marry her because scandals in his past have made him unable to marry in good society).

Re-Vision version same setup except she's protesting so much he suddenly has doubts, not sure what to believe and she takes the opportunity to escape. The rest goes on as above.

BTW - Amergin's plot is from Woodiwiss's The Flame and the Flower.

But it's really sounding like the non-rape version would be more palatable to today's audiences.

Amergin · Aug 2, 2010

The Flame and the Flower! that's it! what a great memory you have!

I agree, the revision version would be more palatable nowadays. (IMO)
You get to have your cake and eat it -- plenty of early titillation from the struggle between Hero and Heroine -- but he's not a drunken idiot so he *does* have doubts -- and she's spunky so she manages to escape -- --> . Unresolved Sexual Tension, great stuff

frimble3 · Aug 2, 2010

Plus, I'd go with Version B "He has to get married, but is unmarriageable". Because "He compromised her" sounds a bit silly when she's in a brothel in the first place. Anyone who knows she's there is going to assume the worst, regardless of what he does to her.

wittyusernamehere · Aug 2, 2010

Amergin said:
T
I agree, the revision version would be more palatable nowadays. (IMO)
You get to have your cake and eat it -- plenty of early titillation from the struggle between Hero and Heroine -- but he's not a drunken idiot so he *does* have doubts -- and she's spunky so she manages to escape -- --> . Unresolved Sexual Tension, great stuff

This!

ThetProf · Aug 2, 2010

frimble3 said:
Plus, I'd go with Version B "He has to get married, but is unmarriageable". Because "He compromised her" sounds a bit silly when she's in a brothel in the first place. Anyone who knows she's there is going to assume the worst, regardless of what he does to her.

That's how he sells it to her brother--if word gets out she was there she'd be just as unmarriagable as he is. So her brother is on his side wanting her to marry him as well.

Sarashay · Aug 3, 2010

ThetProf said:
But it's really sounding like the non-rape version would be more palatable to today's audiences.

This this this this this.

JuliePgh · Aug 3, 2010

What is her background up to the point of her being auctioned off to the brothel? Was she a slave before that point? If yes, then perhaps her past has left her "conditioned" into not resisting, or has made her too scared to resist based on having seen what happened to other young girls who did resist. If she's too scared to scream, thrash, she doesn't give him any obvious signs that she doesn't want to have sex. If that's the case, you could use subtle body language (shaking, holding her arms over her chest, closing her eyes when he approaches)... signs that he might mistake for someone who is merely young and new to this, but not necessarily unwilling. Then, as he proceeds to undress her, or whatever, he can come across scars from a whip or some obvious sign that would tell him that she is a slave and not necessarily here of her own free will... it would give him an excuse to stop and not rape.

JuliePgh · Aug 3, 2010

I'm also curious... how does she get out of the brothel? Does she 'escape'? Does the Hero secretly buy her freedom and she can learn this later on? Maybe he never tells her because he knows she won't believe it, and it's only when she comes across a document (post marriage) that she realizes the truth behind how her freedom was attained.

ThetProf · Aug 3, 2010

Katerina has just arrived in London a month prior to the opening of the book.
BACK STORY:
She and her brother are the children of a Colonel who has been stationed in the colonies most of their lives. Her mother died when she was small and she has grown up insisting on doing/learning the same things as her brother. She can ride, shoot, and handle a sword. She's sort of the "daughter of the regiment" in a sense; they have aided her in her quest to be just as good as her brother. She's also received at least one proposal from a captain in the regiment.
The father inherited a title from his brother, then died before he could resign his commission and go back to England. The son then inherits and he and Katerina go to London.
At the opening of the book she has spent the month still in mourning for her father and is champing at the bit for some excitement. Jack (brother) agrees to take her to a masquerade that evening. En route she is kidnapped, gagged, bound and delivered to the brothel just in time for the auction. She wears a mask during the auction to hide the gag and she's afraid to remove it for fear people will recognise her and she'll be ruined. Her idea is that when she's taken to her purchaser she'll be able to remove the gag, tell him what happened to her, and he'll help her escape.
Unfortunately, the hero doesn't believe her story. He thinks she's playing the role in the scene he bought (tableau acution of male fantasy scenarios). He also knew her uncle, but doesn't know he died (been out of country living down a series of scandals in his own life). He's being witty and countering her arguments and pursuing her around the room. He finally pins her in the bed, recognises desperation in her voice and manner, hesitates. She takes the opportunity to claw his face and while he's distracted with the pain, she runs out.

JuliePgh · Aug 3, 2010

ThetProf said:
En route she is kidnapped, gagged, bound and delivered to the brothel just in time for the auction. She wears a mask during the auction to hide the gag and she's afraid to remove it for fear people will recognise her and she'll be ruined. Her idea is that when she's taken to her purchaser she'll be able to remove the gag, tell him what happened to her, and he'll help her escape.

If you want her to wear the mask, the better rationale would be that the kidnappers don't want her face seen by too many people in case one might recognize her. Could get them in trouble if its known that they kidnap and auction women.

Thank you for the backstory. I have issue with an earlier part here, before he rapes her (or attempts to). It sounds like you're giving her a choice as to whether or not she wears the mask. If they gag her, wouldn't they also have to bind her hands behind her back? And why would her kidnappers give her an option about anything? They're certainly not worried about protecting her reputation. They want to protect their own hides (which would be THEIR reason for putting a mask on her) and not lose out on a money-making operation. I doubt she'd have any options as to how she's put on display. To me, at least, it makes more sense to have her bound/gagged and NOT have any control over her situation.

Maybe I'm thinking too modern here, but if I were in her situation, I'd rather be recognized as a kidnapee than risk someone purchasing me and becoming even further compromised. Certainly, while she's up for auction and unable to save herself at the moment, she can still plan in her head as to what she'll do after she's bought. Being helpless (at that moment) doesn't mean she has to be weak or stupid.

ThetProf said:
He's being witty and countering her arguments and pursuing her around the room. He finally pins her in the bed, recognises desperation in her voice and manner, hesitates. She takes the opportunity to claw his face and while he's distracted with the pain, she runs out.

I think this part would be fine, as you're not having your character commit rape: 1) He stops 2) His perspective at the time is that he's not forcing her, he's bought a night with a willing participant. These are both things that Katerina can at least logically come to understand in time, if you can make her see things from his perspective. Whether or not she overcomes the trauma is a separate issue.

Monkey · Aug 3, 2010

I love the new angle. If he's being witty and intensely physical, but holds off just at the moment of peak arousal because he realizes that she's seriously objecting, and, time period or no, he's not a rapist...well that makes him not only more likeable, but positively yummy.

Go with that!

ThetProf · Aug 3, 2010

JuliePgh--
"It sounds like you're giving her a choice as to whether or not she wears the mask. If they gag her, wouldn't they also have to bind her hands behind her back? And why would her kidnappers give her an option about anything? They're certainly not worried about protecting her reputation. They want to protect their own hides (which would be THEIR reason for putting a mask on her) and not lose out on a money-making operation. I doubt she'd have any options as to how she's put on display. To me, at least, it makes more sense to have her bound/gagged and NOT have any control over her situation."
No, they don't give her a choice; she's threatened with disfigurement if she takes the mask off (they want the gag on but don't want it to show) and as extra incentive remind her that she's better off with the mask on so no one would recognise her. I'm probably going to add that she's bound on the platform, but manages to get out of the ropes finally and struggles with the guy playing the master (before she's actually sold). Thanks for the feedback.

Monkey--And thanks for the vote of confidence! Love your avatar.

JuliePgh · Aug 4, 2010

ThetProf,
Sorry if I misread what you intended for her. Sounds like you have the plot pulled together nicely! Good luck with it!

ThetProf · Aug 4, 2010

Thanks Julie. I don't think I gave you all the details at first, but now I think you've got most of it. Thanks for the vote of confidence.

Satori1977 · Aug 6, 2010

I will not read a romance that has a rape scene in it....unless it is NOT the protag that does deed. That is one thing I cannot get over. The hero raping the heroine, but they later fall in love and get married (or get married, then fall in love). Sorry, not believable in my eyes. No matter what his reason or excuse, he will always be an a$$ in my book, and I won't be able to look past it. Now I have no problem with him thinking she is a whore and starting....but he MUST stop before it gets to far and be smart enough (and man enough) to realize there is a problem, and he can't go through with it.

Sending out an SOS--plot problem/question

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