BBFC cut Marmaduke due to one word

seun · Jul 16, 2010

And that word is spaz.

http://www.bbfc.co.uk/website/Classified.nsf/0/E6574B8DBFD20B2D80257762003E9937?OpenDocument

As unpleasant as the word can be to some people, should its use automatically give a film a 12A - the same rating that one use of fuck and its variations would get?

ETA: There's some strong language in this thread so cover your ears if it's not for you.

veinglory · Jul 16, 2010

I think the difference is that it is a word based on being derogatory about a physical disability. As such I would count it is being much more offensive than 'fuck'.

Paul · Jul 16, 2010

It's all about context. 'spaz' has become closer to 'dufuss' these days. As current context is all, when dealing with language. (I haven't seen this movie, I'm commenting on the word.)

veinglory · Jul 16, 2010

If you have Cerebral Palsy or a similar disorder or know someone who does and so was inevitably called a "spaz" many times (look at the spaz, ha ha) it is more equivalent to "fag" or "retard".

Chris P · Jul 16, 2010

That word's almost unknown in the US (at least to me). I heard it occasionally about 30 years ago, but it was used as a verb for losing one's temper. "He lost the game and just spazzed!" We used "retard," which I heard brief buzz about being bleeped from US TV about six or nine months ago. More recently my kids used "tard."

I've never heard spaz used in a purely derogatory way. And if I remember right "spazz" was one of the letters in Dr. Seuss' On Beyond Zebra.

sassandgroove · Jul 16, 2010

shoot- i call myself a spaz. I didn't know it came from making fun of people with Cerebral Palsey.

veinglory · Jul 16, 2010

I don't think we need to teach a new generation of kids to use a shortening on a medical term (spastic) as an insult without even really thinking about it? Surely they can just replace the word with one that is not linked to a disability?

Paul · Jul 16, 2010

veinglory said:
If you have Cerebral Palsy or a similar disorder or know someone who does and so was inevitably called a "spaz" many times (look at the spaz, ha ha) it is more equivalent to "fag" or "retard".

Yes and I always hated the term. but I do think it's fangs have been removed over the last ten or twelve years.
Language changes of course. however if it's use in this movie is clearly disparaging to the disabled is should be removed. but i'd say it's a case of misunderstanding cultural use and change and fear of accusations rather than anything else. which is annoying

Paul · Jul 16, 2010

veinglory said:
I don't think we need to teach a new generation of kids to use a shortening on a medical term (spastic) as an insult without even really thinking about it? Surely they can just replace the word with one that is not linked to a disability?

well I'm not sure I'd call it teaching.
Kids will always target the weak and that which they fear/ don't understand (like adults) - it's inevitable (for the foreseable future)
the trick therefore is removing the negativity of a term over time. but banning this may do the opposite.

veinglory · Jul 16, 2010

I think just not using it and letting it drop out of the vernacular would be the best option. It was on the verge of happening and one movie targeted at pre-teens could bring it back.

Paul · Jul 16, 2010

veinglory said:
I think just not using it and letting it drop out of the vernacular would be the best option.
yes, in an ideal world
It was on the verge of happening and one movie targeted at pre-teens could bring it back.

i think the potential controversy generated by dropping it, may do the opp. but it may have been a tricky call. (condoning it if we don't, controversy if we do)

veinglory · Jul 16, 2010

I just think we have moved on from casually using derogatories based on race, sexuality, gender or disability. If people do it on purpose, that's their choice. But doing it thoughtlessly is increasingly a thing of the past.

shadowwalker · Jul 16, 2010

I've heard 'spaz' used as a derogatory many many times, and always hated it.

I have to wonder, though, if there will ever be a similar thread when movies/tv/books/forums use the words "crazy", "psycho", "maniacs", "nuts" etc to describe the mentally ill.

seun · Jul 16, 2010

I haven't heard spaz used at all let alone as an insult in years. As for spastic as an insult, I think I last heard that when I was 10.

The issue with the film and its potential rating says a lot about what we consider offensive. I would expect spaz to get a PG in the same way that I'd expect bloody, damn or crap to get a PG. Context is another issue regarding its use in this film. Unless we've seen it and know otherwise, the use of spaz might be followed by someone pointing out it's not a pleasant term and shouldn't be used. If that was the case, I think a PG would be more appropriate.

scarletpeaches · Jul 16, 2010

veinglory said:
I don't think we need to teach a new generation of kids to use a shortening on a medical term (spastic) as an insult without even really thinking about it? Surely they can just replace the word with one that is not linked to a disability?

Insults are supposed to be insulting. Hence the name.

Kitty Pryde · Jul 16, 2010

Yeah, the word "spaz" is alive and well, and it is derogatory. I used "spastic" in one WIP to describe an actual hand of an actual person with cerebral palsy, and a beta reader from England suggested that I change it because the word was so derogatory. Just because people use it for funsies doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt other people. Using a symptom of someone's disability as synonymous with bad/stupid/silly/clumsy is just a plain old shitty thing to do. I know the characters on "The In-Betweeners" (BBC show about really obnoxious high school boys) use "spaz" and its relative "spack" (and "mong", OMFG), so these words are still around.

That said, I suspect Marmaduke may be in fact the worst movie of all time, and the BBFC is just protecting small children from being exposed to the horrors of Owen Wilson and George Lopez unfunnily voicing smarmy CGI pets.

scarletpeaches · Jul 16, 2010

Yes, it's a shitty thing to do.

But insults are supposed to make the other person feel bad.

Kitty Pryde · Jul 16, 2010

scarletpeaches said:
Yes, it's a shitty thing to do.

But insults are supposed to make the other person feel bad.

The point isn't that the other person feels bad. The point is that the use of the word generally makes people with disabilities feel bad. While insulting a person, why must we disparage other, innocent people?

backslashbaby · Jul 16, 2010

I've been called a spaz, often. It was when my neurological disorder was undiagnosed and I was still quite clumsy (loss of balance issues, mainly) from it.

I preferred it when folks just thought I must be drunk!

scarletpeaches · Jul 16, 2010

Because if you're trying to insult someone, you're not really thinking with a politically-correct mind.

To be honest, if I'm fighting with someone, I'll call them anything I like to hurt them and I don't give a damn who I'd piss off.

Okay, that makes me sound uber-confrontational but who among us thinks rationally when in a state of anger? Has no-one here ever insulted someone using a word that might piss someone else off too? Jock, bint, slapper, whore, idiot, mong, tard, queen?

Some of those words could even be terms of endearment. (I know 'queen' is in certain parts of the world, completely unrelated to any thought of homosexuality).

Insults along the lines of "I say! I say, you there! I'm dashed displeased with your behaviour. It's jolly well not on, you know," don't have the same impact.

"Idiotic fucker," works far better. Or 'spaz', clearly, if you're a fan of Marmaduke.

Xelebes · Jul 16, 2010

I never actually knew "spastic" was an actual medical term or that it actually referred to those with cerebral palsy, Tourette's, or other things like that. I always thought spastic referred to people with spontaneous bouts of aggression, like roidheads and people with anger issues. I only learned of the proper distinction within the last year when I saw the British documentary on Spasticus Autisticus.

eyeblink · Jul 16, 2010

This is due to a revamp of the BBFC's guidelines earlier in the last decade, following public consultations. At the 18 certificate level, they will allow adult audiences to see anything they like (as long as it is not illegal, which usually means sexual material involving minors or unsimulated cruelty to animals). On the other hand, they tightened up lower categories, and derogatory language now tends to get a 12A when it would likely have had a PG before.

Quite a lot of material from the 60s and 70s, some of them sitcoms which played in prime time on TV, now get 12 certificates (the DVD equivalent of the cinema 12A) for reasons of racist, derogatory and/or discriminatory language.

Sage · Jul 16, 2010

I was also never aware of the origins of "spaz" (or "spastic"). Now I've been enlightened, thank you.

dgiharris · Jul 16, 2010

This is really interesting,

where I come from, that word is about as offensive as geek, nerd, and idiot.

No way in hell I would classify spaz anywhere close to fuck. They aren't even in the same galaxy as far as i'm concerned.

But to each their own. Language can be culturally and locationally biased.

Prior to this thread, I would have never even thought of the word as offensive. :Shrug:

Mel...

Wayne K · Jul 16, 2010

Spaz was used for people who were anxios and went a hundred miles and hour where I grew up.

I'm not surprised its an insult, but I wasn't aware of it till now.

BBFC cut Marmaduke due to one word

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