When your characters do morally reprehensible things!

Jumpy2 · Jul 15, 2010

I have a dilemma. My MMC’s got a love interest and one of the things that is keeping them apart is that the LI is having an illicit affair which a much older dude. Now, this is something that’s pretty hard for the MC to get over, but I’m worried it might be something that’s pretty hard for readers to get over too.
So the question is, how is a reader supposed to root for this couple if the girl’s out there doing such an off-putting thing? Are there other examples out there of characters in YA who do stuff you’re not cool with but who you can get behind anyway?

Zoombie · Jul 15, 2010

Uh...its not that off putting for me. I mean, the illicit part is, but not the age difference. I'd need to know more about the old dude and his "official" relationship, and what the LI feels, and the social structures of the time and setting.

Mayfield · Jul 15, 2010

Read "A Clockwork Orange."

Glenakin · Jul 15, 2010

It's not off putting, but if she's sleeping with some other dude for no logical reason (and there is no logical reason to cheat, there are only understandable reasons) ... if she's doing it because he did something to force her hand, then it's possible for readers to root for the couple. If she's just shagging some other bloke and the MC knows and tries to stop it and she refuses to listen, and he moans about it, and they end up together, it's kinda hard to root for a couple like that. Seems more like the guy was cuckold and whipped and couldn't move on, and when she was done with the older guy she decided, "Oh, I still have that boyfriend of mine. I'll just give us a chance then."

Kitty Pryde · Jul 15, 2010

Don't excuse the bad behavior. Do EXPLAIN the bad behavior. If we understand what's in the character's heart it's easy to understand what they do.

Glenakin · Jul 15, 2010

Oh and my reply was based on the fact that they're dating already. If it's that they're not dating and he likes her and she's just sleeping with some other guy, then Kitty Pryde is your girl to follow on this

Lol Kitty Pryde. That's a good name.

Zoombie · Jul 15, 2010

Or it could be a perfectly fine relationship. If you really want to add stakes to a love triangle - if you have a love triangle - then make all three sides WORK.

If one side is obviously not the one, then the triangle falls down. Then it's a love line! Those are boring!

shaldna · Jul 15, 2010

I'm having an issue with my WIP at the minute because one of the characters is turning into a bit of an unbalanaced killer, to which the other characters don't really know how to react. so they are just sort of ignoring it.

YoursEvermore · Jul 15, 2010

I know it's not a book, but the movie "Cherry Crush" had kind of a similar situation. A teenage boy is in love with a teenage girl, who is already sleeping with an older man. It turns out the girl is quite the manipulator, but there are parts you feel really bad for her.

Sage · Jul 15, 2010

Are the MC and the LI together when she's sleeping with the older man, or is he anti-the older man part?

kaitlin008 · Jul 15, 2010

Personally I'd definitely be more put off by the affair than the older man thing. Unless the couple isn't together when she's with the older man, in which case, not a big thing.

Either way, if I understand why the character did it, I'm more likely to be able to forgive them and accept them as a love interest.

mellymel · Jul 15, 2010

Wow, just had this conversation today with my friend re: The Mortal Instruments.

*spoiler alert*

Two of the main MCs meet, fall in love and then find out they are sister and brother. However, they couldn't get over their feelings for each other and there was all this weird crazy tension between them because they wanted each other, but knew it was morally wrong to feel that way. Well, needless to say, I wasn't buying they were actually brother and sister because they do end up kissing and having a really hard time not wanting each other, so I quickly realized that the author must have been planning to remedy the situation because I wasn't buying that she would allow what happened to happen if they were REALLY brother and sister. So, the relationship between them and how they wanted each other even though we were supposed to believe they were siblings never affected me. I always believed that in the end, we would learn that they actually aren't brother and sister...and I was right

.

Now, my friend who loved the story (for the most part) was deeply disturbed by this story line. Even though at some point she suspected they might not be brother and sister, she thought the mere idea of these two characters wanting each other while believing they were brother and sister was disgusting. Actually, she used the word "disturbing." It really, really bothered her. Yet it didn't bother me at all. Maybe because I don't have brothers (she has 2) or I was able to convince myself early on that there is no way this Cassandra Clare (the author) would have true incest going on in her book, I was able to see past it and actually root for this couple to be together.

So, I guess it will be different for each reader and what their own experiences, beliefs and preferences are, but isn't it like that with pretty much any novel? I say write it and don't look back. Tell your story.

Mel

Mayfield · Jul 15, 2010

mellymel said:
Wow, just had this conversation today with my friend re: The Mortal Instruments.

*spoiler alert*

Two of the main MCs meet, fall in love and then find out they are sister and brother. However, they couldn't get over their feelings for each other and there was all this weird crazy tension between them because they wanted each other, but knew it was immorally wrong to feel that way. Well, needless to say, I wasn't buying they were actually brother and sister because they do end up kissing and having a really hard time not wanting each other, so I quickly realized that the author must have been planning to remedy the situation because I wasn't buying that she would allow what happened to happen if they were REALLY brother and sister. So, the relationship between them and how they wanted each other even though we were supposed to believe they were siblings never affected me. I always believed that in the end, we would learn that they actually aren't brother and sister...and I was right .

Now, my friend who loved the story (for the most part) was deeply disturbed by this story line. Even though at some point she suspected they might not be brother and sister, she thought the mere idea of these two characters wanting each other while believing they were brother and sister was disgusting. Actually, she used the word "disturbing." It really, really bothered her. Yet it didn't bother me at all. Maybe because I don't have brothers (she has 2) or I was able to convince myself early on that there is no way this Cassandra Clare (the author) would have true incest going on in her book, I was able to see past it and actually root for this couple to be together.

So, I guess it will be different for each reader and what their own experiences, beliefs and preferences are, but isn't it like that with pretty much any novel? I say write it and don't look back. Tell your story.

Mel

Your friend should read "Flowers in the Attic," lol.

virtue_summer · Jul 15, 2010

Mayfield said:
Your friend should read "Flowers in the Attic," lol.

Actually, just about anything by V.C. Andrews would do.

Mayfield · Jul 15, 2010

virtue_summer said:
Actually, just about anything by V.C. Andrews would do.

So true. And I've noticed those books are in the YA section these days. When I was a teenager they were in the adult section. Those were definitely the guilty pleasure books back in the day...twisted stuff.

Geek_Pride · Jul 15, 2010

Kitty Pryde said:
Don't excuse the bad behavior. Do EXPLAIN the bad behavior. If we understand what's in the character's heart it's easy to understand what they do.

THIS.

eileenmcilwain · Jul 15, 2010

I suggest you watch the move "Adventureland." It has exactly that scenario in it, and you still kind of root for the girl and boy to get together, despite the fact that the girl has been sleeping with a skeezy older dude who's in a relationship.

It plays a lot on her naivety, and the older dude manipulating her by saying things like "I want to leave her, but I'm just waiting for the right time." and "Come on, babe. You know I love you." and stringing the girl along like that. The girl fancies herself in love with him, but then realises that she's just the butt of the joke and breaks things off.

I think it's important for HER to break things off with the older guy. She needs to realise that he's using her, and that what they're doing is hurtful, and make the decision to walk away. That redeems her character a little bit, and also stops her looking like a clueless idiot. She needs to make the choice of the healthy relationship, over the unhealthy one, in order for the reader to respect her.

Smish · Jul 15, 2010

Characters need to make mistakes; it makes them human.

Sage · Jul 15, 2010

My male MC drugs people, manipulates people, steals, breaks into the female MC's room, and kills people.

I mean, he's also a villain.

Jumpy2 · Jul 15, 2010

Sorry, should have been more clear on the story: it's contemporary and he MC and the LI aren't together yet, not a couple.

Kitty, that's good advice. I will take it! And eileen I totally forgot that happens in Adventurland! I need to rewatch it now.

But my question applies to more than just my specific premise. I just thought of an idea where the MC decides she needs to go on a killing rampage (it's a comedy.) I guess I just have to write it and trust that people will buy it.

mellymel · Jul 15, 2010

Jumpy2 said:
Sorry, should have been more clear on the story: it's contemporary and he MC and the LI aren't together yet, not a couple.

But my question applies to more than just my specific premise. I just thought of an idea where the MC decides she needs to go on a killing rampage (it's a comedy.) I guess I just have to write it and trust that people will buy it.

Figuratively or literally?

Hmmm...I thought I did address your question with my example. Whether they are together already or not, you are talking about how people will view the given situation (or in your case, the idea of it) morally, right?

Whatever the case, I stand by what I said before. Just write the darn thing

ShootingStarsMag · Jul 15, 2010

From what I'm getting...would people be okay with the girl dating an older man? Yes, it's fine. Just explain why. She can always date the other guy who is younger after.

Would the younger guy forgive her or be okay with it? If that's what you're asking...I don't see why not. It's all just how you explain things and show the various sides to the characters. It makes them more believable and easier to relate too...

Glenakin · Jul 15, 2010

shaldna said:
I'm having an issue with my WIP at the minute because one of the characters is turning into a bit of an unbalanaced killer, to which the other characters don't really know how to react. so they are just sort of ignoring it.

LOL! I shouldnt laugh, but this just got me laughing the instant I read it. It has more to do with the scene that popped in my head:
"Awww Joey, what the fuck you done now?"
"Greg ... I swear I didnt mean to."
"What you mean you didnt mean to? The guy was walking his dog! He was just walking his dog! You could have left him to his business."
"I know, I know. Im sorry ... I had to ... I wanted to slit his throat so bad I couldnt help it. Im sorry."
"Sometimes, I wonder if you're really sorry, Joey. I wonder. Shit. Fourth person this week, dude. By the end of the month, we'd have no one left in the neighbourhood!"

shaldna · Jul 16, 2010

mellymel said:
Wow, just had this conversation today with my friend re: The Mortal Instruments.

*spoiler alert*

Two of the main MCs meet, fall in love and then find out they are sister and brother. However, they couldn't get over their feelings for each other and there was all this weird crazy tension between them because they wanted each other, but knew it was morally wrong to feel that way. Well, needless to say, I wasn't buying they were actually brother and sister because they do end up kissing and having a really hard time not wanting each other, so I quickly realized that the author must have been planning to remedy the situation because I wasn't buying that she would allow what happened to happen if they were REALLY brother and sister. So, the relationship between them and how they wanted each other even though we were supposed to believe they were siblings never affected me. I always believed that in the end, we would learn that they actually aren't brother and sister...and I was right .

Now, my friend who loved the story (for the most part) was deeply disturbed by this story line. Even though at some point she suspected they might not be brother and sister, she thought the mere idea of these two characters wanting each other while believing they were brother and sister was disgusting. Actually, she used the word "disturbing." It really, really bothered her. Yet it didn't bother me at all. Maybe because I don't have brothers (she has 2) or I was able to convince myself early on that there is no way this Cassandra Clare (the author) would have true incest going on in her book, I was able to see past it and actually root for this couple to be together.

So, I guess it will be different for each reader and what their own experiences, beliefs and preferences are, but isn't it like that with pretty much any novel? I say write it and don't look back. Tell your story.

Mel

I didn't think it was weird or disturbing at all. I thought it was perfectally fine. lol. I'm glad I was not the only one.

Jumpy2 · Jul 16, 2010

mellymel said:
Figuratively or literally?

Hehe. Both

When your characters do morally reprehensible things!

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