A Bad Happy Ending

Domoviye · Jul 12, 2010

I need some opinions about a paranormal romance idea that is running around in my head.
Basically its a ghost story with a lonely man who becomes obsessed with a sad female ghost that keeps visiting his dreams. As the story progresses the ghost becomes more real for him than anything else and he commits suicide to be with her.
The story ends with the two going off to heaven in each others arms.
Its far from the typical happy ending, but I think if I handled it right it would be pretty good. The question is would any romance or erotica editor touch it with a 10 foot pole.

Marian Perera · Jul 12, 2010

Well, that's certainly... unusual.

I've only read two stories where a character commits suicide because the person they love dies or is dead. Neither were romance.

On the other hand I don't have much experience with paranormal romance so hopefully someone else will weigh in on this.

AngelaA · Jul 12, 2010

I've never seen anything like that before...and frankly, having read a lot of paranormal romance, can't say it's something I would be inclined to pick up. Maybe as a horror but not as a paranormal romance...too dark...you'd want her to come back to life...like what happens in one of Kresley Cole's IAD series.
Although, pubs like Mira books might be interested in something a little more twisted but you'd be limiting yourself to very few publishers I think.

Captcha · Jul 12, 2010

In order for that to be a happy ending, your readers would need to believe in heaven, and ALSO believe that suicide isn't a sin that would keep someone out of heaven. AND believe that suicide isn't a cowardly option and/or indicative of mental illness, I guess, because we don't want our heroes to be cowards or mentally ill, traditionally.

It's a bit less original, but could you have the MC die performing some heroic act? So you'd still get the HEA (sort of), but without the suicide? Of course, that approach removes agency from the MC, which is a bit problematic...

I think the suicide approach could work if you were going for something outside of the narrow confines of the Romance genre (even women's fiction, maybe), but I think it's a stretch to call it a HEA.

Marian Perera · Jul 12, 2010

Kate_Sherwood said:
AND believe that suicide isn't a cowardly option and/or indicative of mental illness, I guess, because we don't want our heroes to be cowards or mentally ill, traditionally.

In the film Operation Daybreak, the Czech paratroopers who assassinated Reinhard Heydrich during World War II committed suicide after they were trapped in the crypt of a church by the Nazis. But they didn't have any way out at that point.

In an episode of The Outer Limits called "Summit", a diplomat sent to negotiate with an alien race commits suicide as a means of atonement for something that has gone wrong and to show that race that she values peace more than her own life. In both of these cases I was convinced that the protagonists weren't cowards, and that they chose suicide because they had no other options remaining, and would have failed in some way if they had continued to live.

In the case of a man who has to die to be united with his lover... the story would have to show why he couldn't just wait to die naturally. Loneliness probably wouldn't cut it as far as making him a hero.

Domoviye · Jul 12, 2010

Thanks for the replies everyone.
I thought that would be the response, I might be able to make him come of as somewhat heroic, but that would be chancy.
So I guess I'll tone down the romance, amp up the mystery and make it a mystery/horror romance instead of a romance/paranormal.
Once more thanks.

MissMacchiato · Jul 12, 2010

I think it could work if it turned out she was actually a real being in a parallel universe, and she saw HIM as a ghost, and he saw HER as a ghost. Then he seemingly commits suicide, but in reality, it's the only way he can gain access to her world.

Otherwise, I agree with the others, I don't see it as something I'd want to pick up either, too dark

Gillhoughly · Jul 12, 2010

Domoviye said:
The question is would any romance or erotica editor touch it with a 10 foot pole.

No. Not even with an 11-foot pole. Suicide is as unromantic as you can get.

One of my friends killed herself. It's left a hell of a scar on everyone who knew her. Figure that any editor reading your work will have similar scarring from the loss of someone he or she loved.

Do what MissMacchiato suggests. Parallel universe. Stephen Hawking will agree with you on that one. THAT is a brilliant idea.

Your protags' love causes a zipper in the space-time continuum to open long enough for one or the other to cross over permanently.

Irysangel · Jul 12, 2010

Suicide is kind of oogy, as a reader, because a lot of religions believe that if you kill yourself, you can't go to Heaven.

Then again, you could create a bad situation where the hero must save someone and he ends up sacrificing his life, and then they get to be together in Heaven. That would totally work for me, as a reader.

Ambri · Jul 12, 2010

I think suicide is far too dark for even a paranormal romance. I would be turned off by this premise and might go so far as to call such an ending a "cop out," if it wasn't written very, very well. I like the idea of having the hero and heroine living in parallel worlds/ dimensions, but could you allow them to be together by some other means than one of them killing themselves?

Have you ever seen an old movie called The Ghost and Mrs. Muir? I think it's an old paranormal love story from back before the day it was really a genre. It has a bittersweet ending, but there's no suicide involved; I think the ending implies that they do end up together in the "hereafter."

sunandshadow · Jul 12, 2010

I have actually seen one (m/m) romance where the love interest was a spirit and the mc left mortal life to be with the spirit. The spirit wasn't literally a ghost, he was more like a figure out of folklore. The mc was pretty much alone in the world so there weren't any family or friends to be upset when he vanished. And there wasn't a messy suicide, the spirit kissed him and drew his soul out of his body, then the two souls walked off hand in hand to live happily ever after as wandering spirits people tell stories about. I thought it was romantic. But no, I can't see a major romance publisher going for it. I don't think there would be any trouble getting it published by a more minor publisher as an ebook though.

Stacia Kane · Jul 12, 2010

My mom told me once about a ghost romance she read, a pretty famous one I think. It had a very similar plot; girl falls in love with ghost in old house, she's graduating from college and has to leave or something, and it ends with her driving away and the sound of a crash. Then she comes running back up the stairs shouting, "I can stay forever now!"

I've actually had a similar plot to that in my head for several years, but mine is fantasy rather than romance; my agent said that was going to be a very tough sell. I agree it's better if you find some way for him to die that isn't strictly suicide. He can do whatever it is knowing he'll die and not caring, but...ooh! Wait! What if he finds out from the ghost that, like, a little boy on the street is going to get hit by a drunk driver? And then waits and jumps in front of the car, thus killing himself and saving the boy?

Do you know what I mean? IMO it's okay for him to want to die to be with her, and it's okay for him to die, but I think she would have a hard time saying, "Sure, honey, you should totally give up your mortal life for me when we'll have hundreds of years together after you die anyway."

Just a suggestions, of course.

Robin Jenson · Jul 12, 2010

BTW - There was a movie with love/death/suicide themes "What Dreams May Come" with Robin Williams (not a comedy). Here is the synopsis from www.imdb.com:

"After suffering the loss of their two children, Chris and Annie barely survive. When Chris also passes Annie's grief is unbearable. Although Chris is reborn in Heaven, without his Annie there is no Heaven. Annie's attempts to go on fail and she takes her own life. She goes to Hell. Not even death can keep Chris from his soulmate as he goes beyond Heaven and Hell to rescue his immortal love."

Collectonian · Jul 12, 2010

What Dreams May Come rocked, but the main bulk of the movie is Chris' moving on, then learning Annie killed herself and his searching for her soul. She doesn't go to "Hell" per se, but in the story's context, "suicides are different" and don't recognize they are dead, and instead send themselves into eternal suffering, unable to let go of the grief that consumed them in life and instead amplifying it. It is an awesome film though.

For the OP, I suspect unfortunately that the idea would be difficult to sell to most main stream romance lines. Women's fiction or general paranormal perhaps, but as others note, the hardest sell would be writing in such a way that it is clear he is dying to be with her rather than because he can't cope without her. I personally would have no problem with such a story so long as its well written.

Billingsgate · Jul 12, 2010

Your story sounds somewhat similar to Wristcutters: A Love Story, though that was a romantic (dark) comedy.

JeanneTGC · Jul 12, 2010

"Time After Time" starred Christopher Reeve and Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman (I cannot believe I've blanked on her name...and I love the actress, but oh well, LOL). She was a famous person in the 1800's or early 1900's, he's a present day writer who falls in love with her, he figures out how to go back in time to be with her, they're happy and then he gets pulled back into his own time and pretty much wills himself to die.

It was utterly romantic and I think it did well (can't remember if it was a movie or a TV movie). However, it was from the early 80's, I believe. And the male character sits in his room refusing food or water until he wastes away and we see them reunited in what's clearly the afterlife.

Did it work? Yeah, I still remember it and I only saw it once. Can you sell that today? I'm with the others -- it's going to be a hard sell and you're really going to have to do it amazingly well. That said, maybe you're the writer who CAN do that amazingly well. If it's begging to be written, write it, just go into the idea with your eyes open to the likelihood of a tough, uphill battle for publication.

san_remo_ave · Jul 12, 2010

JeanneTGC said:
"...and Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman (I cannot believe I've blanked on her name...and I love the actress, but oh well, LOL)...

Jane Seymour ?

LorelieBrown · Jul 13, 2010

It sounds Nicholas Sparks-ish, tbh. RomanTIC but not necessarily romance. But unfortunately, that means I have no idea who *would* look at it, since romance editors wouldn't.

job · Jul 13, 2010

Stacia Kane said:
My mom told me once about a ghost romance she read, a pretty famous one I think. It had a very similar plot; girl falls in love with ghost in old house, she's graduating from college and has to leave or something, and it ends with her driving away and the sound of a crash. Then she comes running back up the stairs shouting, "I can stay forever now!"

I read this. Was it an old Barbara Michaels' book? It had a major character with a bum leg, I think.

I could see this plotline happening -- NOT with suicide -- but with the 'live' character dying from some incurable disease.
Bit of a downer, though.

DrZoidberg · Jul 13, 2010

Gillhoughly said:
No. Not even with an 11-foot pole. Suicide is as unromantic as you can get.

One of my friends killed herself. It's left a hell of a scar on everyone who knew her. Figure that any editor reading your work will have similar scarring from the loss of someone he or she loved.

Do what MissMacchiato suggests. Parallel universe. Stephen Hawking will agree with you on that one. THAT is a brilliant idea.

Your protags' love causes a zipper in the space-time continuum to open long enough for one or the other to cross over permanently.

Hmm.... Romeo and Juliette?

AngelaA · Jul 13, 2010

Romeo and Juilet is considered a tragedy, not a romance. Especially not a romance the way readers expect romances to be now.

Domoviye · Jul 13, 2010

Once more thanks for all the responses.

I have an idea that may work to keep this a romance, but it needs more mulling over, basically they're both ghosts in this one.
Or as I said earlier I could go with it being more of a horror tragedy.

I think I'll keep this one working in the back of my head until it clicks, I have enough other ideas and too little time right now anyways.

Cheers

Chasing the Horizon · Jul 14, 2010

MissMacchiato said:
I think it could work if it turned out she was actually a real being in a parallel universe, and she saw HIM as a ghost, and he saw HER as a ghost. Then he seemingly commits suicide, but in reality, it's the only way he can gain access to her world.

Gillhoughly said:
Parallel universe. Stephen Hawking will agree with you on that one. THAT is a brilliant idea.

Your protags' love causes a zipper in the space-time continuum to open long enough for one or the other to cross over permanently.

Wow, that IS brilliant!

*steals idea*

FallenAngel · Jul 14, 2010

MissMacchiato said:
I think it could work if it turned out she was actually a real being in a parallel universe, and she saw HIM as a ghost, and he saw HER as a ghost. Then he seemingly commits suicide, but in reality, it's the only way he can gain access to her world.

Otherwise, I agree with the others, I don't see it as something I'd want to pick up either, too dark

Wow... I would actually read something like this. Reminds me of the movie "The lake house".

Only in that case it was set in the past and future and they sent each other love letters through a mail. The Ending is actually very beautiful.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0410297/

Collectonian · Jul 14, 2010

The Lake House is a very very pale imitation and butchering of the originally awesome film, Il Mare, but in essence it does work similar (though Lake House completely changes the ending).

Another interesting one along a similar line to watch for inspiration is Ditto, which takes a different spin on it.

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