Why aren't Urban Fantasy creatures more... Urban?

Liosse de Velishaf · Jul 7, 2010

This popped into my head as I was describing a recent WIP in the Rollcalll thread. How are weres and vampires "urban"? Maybe ghosts are. But a lot of other creatures come from mythological backgrounds that may include but aren't really focused on urban issues.

Why is that? Are we just not very good at creating creatures anymore? Where are the trash golems, and the sewer dragons, and the alley goblins? What about the cocaine vampires? Poverty demons? Somebody explain it to me...

haystackbat · Jul 7, 2010

Sounds like you've got an entire, lucrative career ahead of you. Best get to it!
Seriously, though, we should all be as imaginative as you. I've never thought of urban fantasy that way. If ever I come across a book involving trash golems or cocaine vampires, I'm buying it.
One reason people tend to stick with the usual, mythological creatures is that they're nice and distanced from the life we're stuck with every day. A creature based on something actually, well, urban, forces people to write/read what can make them uncomfortable (as in the idea of poverty demons).
Not to say that they shouldn't, but it's easier not to, sometimes.

Liosse de Velishaf · Jul 7, 2010

That's part of it, I think. But there's also the fact that making up new stuff is tough, and historical mythology provides a safe way to avoid secondary world critique, since UF is defined as primarily AE or CE fiction. But there's really nothing that says you can't create new creatures that are still primary world. The first myths had to come from somewhere. Just because science is more advanced now, it doesn't mean mythology should be fossilized. Urban legends are thriving, for example, but you rarely see fantasy that incorporates them.

Kitty Pryde · Jul 7, 2010

Un-Lun-Dun does a brisk trade in urban-themed fantasy beasties. And Neverwhere!

But yeah, people LIKE their 'normal' mythological folk, and in a decent book you can use them to explore urban issues. Fer instance: the fairies in The Good Fairies Of New York are a bit old fashioned (despite their penchant for punk rock fiddling) but the author has a lot to say about race relations, urban gang warfare, punk rock, and homelessness using said old fashioned fairies. "Ugly Americans" is slightly dumb and gross, but it's a pretty good look at the mess of urban existence IMO.

Liosse de Velishaf · Jul 7, 2010

I'm not saying it's bad to use normal creatures. I'm just curious why so many don't use more modern, urban ones.

I really need to read Un-Lun-Dun, and Neverwhere has some fairly urban creatures and many urbanized creatures. S'why I love Gaiman. But you have to admit, neither of those are exactly mainstream UF.

Kitty Pryde · Jul 7, 2010

They aren't the Buffy-type UF...but if Buffy-type UF had urban-specific, newly-created creatures, I thing it wouldn't be Buffy-type UF.

Liosse de Velishaf · Jul 7, 2010

Kitty Pryde said:
They aren't the Buffy-type UF...but if Buffy-type UF had urban-specific, newly-created creatures, I thing it wouldn't be Buffy-type UF.

No, it would not. But it would still be UF. (Although you sometimes have to wonder how accurate a label that is.

) Also, Buffy's more contemporary/supernatural than UF.

Kitty Pryde · Jul 7, 2010

Liosse de Velishaf said:
No, it would not. But it would still be UF. (Although you sometimes have to wonder how accurate a label that is. ) Also, Buffy's more contemporary/supernatural than UF.

But UF as it is most often defined is a fairly direct descendant of BtVS. Buffy is like the ur-UF. Or proto-UF? Except for UF that is not Buffy-like, which many people would not consider to be actually UF.

Liosse de Velishaf · Jul 7, 2010

The term has changed so much. Gaimain and de Lint used to be the type of stuff we called UF, though it was never as popular as the Buffy style. But there's also stuff like Child of Fire and Dresden that are not quite as Buffy-is, but not really Gaimany, either.

Stormhawk · Jul 8, 2010

I've got undead mermaids that live in the Brisbane river, called Trashmaids, their clothing is made of whatever sticks to them, their bodies are covered in algae, they make glasses out of the bottoms of beer bottles etc.

I've got "city hobs" that have an affinity for the city - tend to have bits of glass, concrete, whatnot in their clothes, and eat from dumpsters - and if you piss them off, they can bury you alive under concrete.

I've got concrete trolls that kind of swim under the roads, and surface once in a while to eat a bus, or a car.

And a few others.

Liosse de Velishaf · Jul 8, 2010

Stormhawk said:
I've got undead mermaids that live in the Brisbane river, called Trashmaids, their clothing is made of whatever sticks to them, their bodies are covered in algae, they make glasses out of the bottoms of beer bottles etc.

I've got "city hobs" that have an affinity for the city - tend to have bits of glass, concrete, whatnot in their clothes, and eat from dumpsters - and if you piss them off, they can bury you alive under concrete.

I've got concrete trolls that kind of swim under the roads, and surface once in a while to eat a bus, or a car.

And a few others.

Nice.

defcon6000 · Jul 8, 2010

Liosse de Velishaf said:
Why is that? Are we just not very good at creating creatures anymore? Where are the trash golems, and the sewer dragons, and the alley goblins? What about What about the cocaine vampires? Poverty demons? Somebody explain it to me...

That's not so much creating new creatures but rather putting a new spin on something already done. I for one would LOVE to see some of those creatures, to me that would make more sense than your traditional monsters living in the city. After all, if humans lifestyle is always changing, any creature living in the same world would also be effected by such changes.
Kinda like in the Dark Knight, how they redid the Joker to make him fit into the setting; he isn't just some goon that got dumped into a vat of chemicals that happened to turn his hair green, rather he's a psychologically abused sociopath that slaps make-up on to cover up his scars. That was well done.

Liosse de Velishaf · Jul 8, 2010

defcon6000 said:
That's not so much creating new creatures but rather putting a new spin on something already done. I for one would LOVE to see some of those creatures, to me that would make more sense than your traditional monsters living in the city. After all, if humans lifestyle is always changing, any creature living in the same world would also be effected by such changes.
Kinda like in the Dark Knight, how they redid the Joker to make him fit into the setting; he isn't just some goon that got dumped into a vat of chemicals that happened to turn his hair green, rather he's a psychologically abused sociopath that slaps make-up on to cover up his scars. That was well done.

Yeah, those are new spins, since I thought it'd be easier to make the point. A smaller change to make.

defyalllogic · Jul 8, 2010

The Demonica series by Larissa Ione is kind of like you described. it's paranormal romance though. there is a vampire who is into drugs so he drinks from junkies. and there are hookers demons and sewer and ally demons...

Kweei · Jul 8, 2010

Liosse de Velishaf said:
This popped into my head as I was describing a recent WIP in the Rollcalll thread. How are weres and vampires "urban"? Maybe ghosts are. But a lot of other creatures come from mythological backgrounds that may include but aren't really focused on urban issues.

Why is that? Are we just not very good at creating creatures anymore? Where are the trash golems, and the sewer dragons, and the alley goblins? What about What about the cocaine vampires? Poverty demons? Somebody explain it to me...

Depends on how you define urban maybe? And I've found the UF I've read to have creatures that seem perfectly urban to me. But I guess it depends on how you define the word. Also, urban areas also have parts of the city that aren't so gritty.

I know the short story I'm shopping around has urban creatures in gangs and hooked on drugs, etc. But there is also something very spooky about something old that hasn't really learned to adapt completely lurking out there in the shadows.

MattW · Jul 8, 2010

Urban creatures?

Like a hip-hop homunculus?

Chasing the Horizon · Jul 8, 2010

I have no idea why more UF writers don't create new and interesting creatures, or use some of the more obscure creatures from mythology (there are literally thousands of creatures in existing mythology, but UF writers seem devoted to using the same half-dozen or so over and over).

My book has all kinds of weird creatures in it, including some I created myself or adapted from myths to be perfectly suited to an urban environment. You find very different creatures living in the city than in the country (and even different things in different parts of the city). Of course, my background is mainly in high fantasy and SF, so maybe I'm totally out of touch with what UF readers and publishers want.

GregB · Jul 8, 2010

Why can't werewolves (or any other mythological creature) be "urban"? The werewolf in MOB RULES is a homeless, double-amputee Vietnam vet who panhandles on the Santa Monica Pier. He just happens to have lycanthropy.

The point is, I think a big part of the appeal of UF is reimagining creatures and characters from folklore and mythology in a contemporary, urban setting. Doing so successfully, in my opinion, isn't more or less creative or imaginative than making up new critters.

ChaosTitan · Jul 8, 2010

GregB said:
The point is, I think a big part of the appeal of UF is reimagining creatures and characters from folklore and mythology in a contemporary, urban setting. Doing so successfully, in my opinion, isn't more or less creative or imaginative than making up new critters.

Bolding mine. This is the UF. It's not about "urban monsters" it's about the urban setting.

Which is why books like Ilona Andrews' On the Edge puts marketing people into a tizzy--it's got the typical UF tropes with regards to magic and monsters, but takes place in a very rural setting.

More and more, UF is coming to mean simply a "contemporary" setting, rather than solely an "urban" setting.

Chasing the Horizon · Jul 8, 2010

GregB said:
The point is, I think a big part of the appeal of UF is reimagining creatures and characters from folklore and mythology in a contemporary, urban setting. Doing so successfully, in my opinion, isn't more or less creative or imaginative than making up new critters.

That doesn't explain why people have to re-imagine the same handful of creatures over and over, though. I'm SO tired of the traditional UF creatures. Of course, that's why I'm writing my own. You know, the 'if you can't find it, write it' rule.

LynnKHollander · Jul 8, 2010

Kitty Pryde said:
But UF as it is most often defined is a fairly direct descendant of BtVS. Buffy is like the ur-UF.

I can't agree with the above. Urban Fantasy is not always about vampires or horror. I suggest a slightly more thorough survey, starting with Thorne Smith or G. K. Chesterton.

On the original post: It seems to me that vampires need a certain population level/density habitat for at least two reasons: They need to hide among normal humans and they need to feed on normal humans.
In small populations, the illness or death of a single person garners more attention than in a large population. A rural vampire would need to range farther than an urban vampire to feed in safety. Also, a rural resident who sleeps all day is more noticable, while a city dweller who sleeps all day may just have a night job.

Weres, dryads or the like, in their human forms, have more freedom of choice in their places of residence.

GregB · Jul 8, 2010

Chasing the Horizon said:
That doesn't explain why people have to re-imagine the same handful of creatures over and over, though.

Well, I think it does. These creatures are appealing and familiar; the writer draws on that, uses it, in the reimagining. It's kinda pointless to "reimagine" some obscure critter no one's ever heard of.

I'm SO tired of the traditional UF creatures. Of course, that's why I'm writing my own. You know, the 'if you can't find it, write it' rule.

That's cool -- it takes all kinds! To me, this a bit like saying "I'm so tired of human characters..." Ultimately, in my view, the fantasy bits are cool but it's character that matters. Vampire, werewolf, or something completely new -- is it a compelling and engaging character?

Summonere · Jul 8, 2010

Liosse de Velishaf said:
Why aren't Urban Fantasy creatures more... Urban?

“Urban Fantasy” is the intersection of “urban setting” and “fantasy,” whatever the latter means to the author. As you've discovered, it most commonly means pretty much the same thing to many.

What you're looking for can be found in Harlan Ellison's Deathbird Stories, of 1975 vintage, and in other ways, some of Italo Calvino's work.

Shadow_Ferret · Jul 8, 2010

Liosse de Velishaf said:
T... since UF is defined as primarily AE or CE fiction. But there's really nothing that says you can't create new creatures that are still primary world. The first myths had to come from somewhere. Just because science is more advanced now, it doesn't mean mythology should be fossilized. Urban legends are thriving, for example, but you rarely see fantasy that incorporates them.

AE or CE? *confused*

Aren't vampires and werewolves urban legends in a sense? Not sure why we can't use them, too.

Liosse de Velishaf said:
The term has changed so much. Gaimain and de Lint used to be the type of stuff we called UF, though it was never as popular as the Buffy style. But there's also stuff like Child of Fire and Dresden that are not quite as Buffy-is, but not really Gaimany, either.

Gaiman? Isn't he a new author? Hardly around long enough to be say he "Used to be the type of stuff we called UF."

I guess I'm not understanding your complaint.

Kitty Pryde · Jul 8, 2010

LynnKHollander said:
I can't agree with the above. Urban Fantasy is not always about vampires or horror. I suggest a slightly more thorough survey, starting with Thorne Smith or G. K. Chesterton.

No, what I mean by Buffy-like fantasy is a small ass-kicking woman with special powers or unusual skills who wanders the urban landscape fighting/sleepin with/falling in love with/turning into traditional supernatural critters like demons/vamps/werewolves/fairies. (I'd put Harry Dresden in this category too BTW)

Most of what falls under UF these days is in this category. So some people define UF as this type of fantasy. And some people define UF as fantasy in a modernish city. So it can be hard to discuss if we're defining things in different ways

Shadow_Ferret said:
Gaiman? Isn't he a new author? Hardly around long enough to be say he "Used to be the type of stuff we called UF."

Neverwhere came out fourteen years ago. It predates the type of UF that falls under the more narrow definition, the type that is wildly popular right now.

Why aren't Urban Fantasy creatures more... Urban?

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