Does Non-Stressful Diversity Sell?

Stunted · Jun 16, 2010

In another thread, a lot of people (myself included) said that they wanted to see more gay and non-white characters whose whole lives don't revolve around being gay or non-white. I'm pretty sure that if these books were sitting on the shelf, plenty of people would want to read them, but do you think that an agent would see representing these books as risky?

bertrigby · Jun 16, 2010

Agents want to see a good, enjoyable, well-written story. If this story happens to feature a black protagonist or a gay romance, what's the problem? I would hope that they wouldn't see this as difficult to sell.

Shady Lane · Jun 16, 2010

Not risky, there just aren't a lot of them right now. It's changing. They're definitely coming.

Kitty27 · Jun 16, 2010

Speaking about the diversity part,I know that there is a huge audience for that kind of fiction. They are starving for it and if any author with such a story gets the chance,I guarantee their success will be off the chain.

I believe with all my heart that agents want what Bert said. BUT it is a tougher sell. An agent and author are going to have to put in work. I have to keep it real,there is an assumption that such stories don't sell and/or the reading public isn't interested. I think both are myths that will be destroyed when such a story gets a chance.

KTC · Jun 16, 2010

I naturally use a diversity of characters in my stories...I never make a story about their diversities.

shaldna · Jun 17, 2010

Stunted said:
In another thread, a lot of people (myself included) said that they wanted to see more gay and non-white characters whose whole lives don't revolve around being gay or non-white. I'm pretty sure that if these books were sitting on the shelf, plenty of people would want to read them, but do you think that an agent would see representing these books as risky?

Yeah, all those unoppressed folk will be up in arms.

I don't think it would be seen as risky. I think so long as the story around them is interesting then it doesn't matter.

shaldna · Jun 17, 2010

Kitty27 said:
Speaking about the diversity part,I know that there is a huge audience for that kind of fiction. They are starving for it and if any author with such a story gets the chance,I guarantee their success will be off the chain.

I believe with all my heart that agents want what Bert said. BUT it is a tougher sell. An agent and author are going to have to put in work. I have to keep it real,there is an assumption that such stories don't sell and/or the reading public isn't interested. I think both are myths that will be destroyed when such a story gets a chance.

I agree.

What I really want is a good UF with minorites, and a sweet romance too.

I certainly don't want my daughter growing up reading books where good things only happen to straight, white, well off people, while all the gay people and minorities lead a life of stress and unhappiness because they aren't straight white people.

Bubastes · Jun 17, 2010

shaldna said:
I agree.

What I really want is a good UF with minorites, and a sweet romance too.

I certainly don't want my daughter growing up reading books where good things only happen to straight, white, well off people, while all the gay people and minorities lead a life of stress and unhappiness because they aren't straight white people.

At this point, I don't care if "regular" stories with minority characters are a hard sell. I'm Asian and grew up in a primarily white community, but being Asian barely registers in my brain space most of the time. I don't angst over not being white. Why should my characters?

Glenakin · Jun 17, 2010

It probably would sell, and some agents will get it, but publishers, from I can tell, are still firmly against it or not passionate about it. In the end, it's all about the white girl falling for the white boy vamp. Anything other than that, while they might get agent-ed and published, would probably end up being underpromoted. Sad. But it's like my mate said, we live in a white world

inkspatters · Jun 17, 2010

Not controversial, imo. These books need to happen and are happening, as Shady said.

Also, I feel like I should say that while I DO want diversity where being diverse isn't the issue, I also don't think cultural aspects of a character should be ignored. In other words, I don't think that writing ethnic minorities or gay people as if they ARE straight white people is the way to go, either (not that anyone is saying this, just something I thought I'd point out, because I feel like sometimes people take non-issue diverse books as meaning a book in which being gay is no different to being straight or being black is not different to being white. It is different. It's just not necessarily issue-different

)

lemonhead · Jun 17, 2010

My MC is Puerto-Rican but the book has nothing to do with her being that. That was what I saw in my head and so that is what she is.

Funnily enough, agents will specify that they are looking for exactly this. Ethnicity/Minority where that is not the issue.

shaldna · Jun 17, 2010

I think we need to look at the changing nature of our society. 50 years ago Belfast was 99% white. These days white make up around 60% of the popularion in teh city.

There's alot change going on.

And it's not just white people who buy books.

NoGuessing · Jun 17, 2010

I can't believe enthnicity and sexual orientation is even an issue for publishers (if it is, I don't know).

But then, I'm not fussed about whether Joe Bloggs likes boys or girls.

chocowrites · Jun 17, 2010

I'd be more worried about how publishers handle a minority/ LGBT novel AFTER buying it. Especially with promotion--I never see minority/LGBT books getting a huge publicity push--WGWG was a little better though. And packaging, since whitewashed covers have been a major issue in the past.

Kitty27 · Jun 17, 2010

chocowrites said:
I'd be more worried about how publishers handle a minority/ LGBT novel AFTER buying it. Especially with promotion--I never see minority/LGBT books getting a huge publicity push--WGWG was a little better though. And packaging, since whitewashed covers have been a major issue in the past.

This is why I say a writer is going to have to put in major work for their book. Promote the hell out of it before it even hits the shelves. Multicultural fiction is not going to get the dollars for marketing/promotion but I feel a dedicated writer can make all the difference.

Whitewashing covers is a hideous practice. The music industry got over this foolishness a long time ago and has had no problem selling music. The publishing industry has got to catch up. The same kids who buy Rihanna/Beyonce/Lil Wayne/Jay Z would hesitate to buy a book with a black character on the cover or by a black writer? Lil Wayne didn't sell a million in one week off black fans alone and his face is front and center on his CD's. It is pure racist and foolish thinking.

Inkspatters,I agree. Putting elements of the culture into the writing is essential.

eyeblink · Jun 17, 2010

It looks like Bloomsbury have learned the lesson re whitewashing covers - their paperback of Laurie Halse Anderson's Chains does have a black girl on the cover, as it should.

I certainly hope that there will be a place for a LGBT YA novel in the UK - since I've written one and am waiting for six betas to get back to me!

True · Jun 17, 2010

I'm kind of worried now about the amount of promotion my books would get if they ever sold. Most of my stories are told from the point of view of someone who typically isn't white, and their cultural/ethnic background is definitely something they notice, but don't necessarily dislike or complain about. And you know what? It doesn't affect how interesting a reader finds it, so I'm wondering why publishers think this way.

I agree with Inkspatters. I like reading stories where the main character is in touch with their background. We don't have to get pages and pages that show this, but I don't think we should completely forget about it either. In reality, people know who they are and where they came from, but is it something that affects every aspect of their life? Not necessarily. However, is it something that doesn't affect any part of their life? No, it's not. And I'd like to see that in books.

chocowrites · Jun 17, 2010

eyeblink said:
It looks like Bloomsbury have learned the lesson re whitewashing covers - their paperback of Laurie Halse Anderson's Chains does have a black girl on the cover, as it should.

I certainly hope that there will be a place for a LGBT YA novel in the UK - since I've written one and am waiting for six betas to get back to me!

The thing is, Bloomsbury actually got rewarded for whitewashing covers. Sure, they got lots of ire directed their way.

But the sales for the books in question? They skyrocketed. I was looking at MUG's Amazon page right before the ruckus erupted, and it was in the 90,000s in sale rankings. Just a day into it, it'd climbed to 40,000.

And a similar thing happened with Liar beforehand.

Hmm, it's interesting that they managed to get the Chain's cover (which was published before either of those books) right, but not Liar's or MUG's. Some people were saying the whitewashing was a publicity stunt.

Ryan_Sullivan · Jun 18, 2010

LGBTQ characters as non-issue

So, I've been toying around with having my protagonist in the project I'm working on be bisexual for a while. If I did, it would be completely a non-issue. My work is along the lines of John Green/Eireann Corrigan (romantic, funny, but serious too), and there are many other things that the book is going to address. After reading what people are looking for, I feel like it might be good to do this with my character. But, my hesitation is I'm wondering if we can even have non-straight characters as a non-issue. Would it be distracting and take away from the other things I'm trying to go into with this book? Would people expect/be disappointed if I didn't address it as an issue? Also, since my writing is male POV, and would likely be geared toward boys, would a bisexual male protagonist be a turn off? In all likelihood, this would be the second book of my career, and I'm wondering if I should step out on this limb or whether it could potentially be career suicide. I plan on asking my agent when the time comes, but I wanted to get the board's opinion.

So, what do you all think? Can non-straight characters be treated as a non-issue without being a distraction (to a mainstream audience, that is)?

Sage · Jun 18, 2010

Actually we just had a thread about this, so I'm going to merge. Also, I think you'll like what you find in the "What do you want to see in YA" thread, Ryan

Shady Lane · Jun 18, 2010

We're getting there. You would be a bit of a trailblazer, and that will mean you will fight a harder battle than you would if your MC were straight. But. They're-gay-so-what is a phenomenon that's coming whether you're part of it or not, so if you're willing to fight the good fight with your ms, you'll be ahead of the curve instead of buried in the middle of it.

Gedaechtnis · Jun 23, 2010

They definitely need to happen; at the same time, there needs to be more books about other diversities. There's tons of books about poor black kids. I have seen maybe 1 or 2 [good] books about poor white kids, or about middle-class Middle Eastern kids, or bi kids.
I hate the over-diversified books with a passion. Yes, I know there are various class/orientation/race/ethnic reasons why your life can suck. But too many books just go, "Okay, here's Poor Disadvantaged Black Boy, let's write a book that enables 12 year old WASPs to 'understand' and 'empathize with' his struggles as a PDBB." Or at least that's how they come across.

Sean Wills · Jun 23, 2010

Gedaechtnis said:
They definitely need to happen; at the same time, there needs to be more books about other diversities. There's tons of books about poor black kids. I have seen maybe 1 or 2 [good] books about poor white kids, or about middle-class Middle Eastern kids, or bi kids.
I hate the over-diversified books with a passion. Yes, I know there are various class/orientation/race/ethnic reasons why your life can suck. But too many books just go, "Okay, here's Poor Disadvantaged Black Boy, let's write a book that enables 12 year old WASPs to 'understand' and 'empathize with' his struggles as a PDBB." Or at least that's how they come across.

I hate these more than I can describe. This is why I was always uncomfortable reading those oh-so 'special' books we were assigned in secondary school - yes, great, I and my other middle-class white friends have read Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry, but that doesn't mean we've suddenly become paragons of equality.

ShootingStarsMag · Jun 23, 2010

I'd love to be published, but I also can't write and fall in love with a story that just isn't me...if you like a story that has a non-straight character and want to push for it, then do it. I think it's needed and I don't think if it's an issue, it shouldn't exclude people that it might normally. Though, of course, readers should read what they want and not just about people "like them."

Kitty27 · Jun 23, 2010

Gedaechtnis said:
They definitely need to happen; at the same time, there needs to be more books about other diversities. There's tons of books about poor black kids. I have seen maybe 1 or 2 [good] books about poor white kids, or about middle-class Middle Eastern kids, or bi kids.
I hate the over-diversified books with a passion. Yes, I know there are various class/orientation/race/ethnic reasons why your life can suck. But too many books just go, "Okay, here's Poor Disadvantaged Black Boy, let's write a book that enables 12 year old WASPs to 'understand' and 'empathize with' his struggles as a PDBB." Or at least that's how they come across.

Good Goth,you hit the nail on the head. I HATE those kinds of books with an extreme passion.

Just one book where being a minority isn't a big issue. It's part of the character and their culture is explored,but that's it. Gah,I would love to see that.

Does Non-Stressful Diversity Sell?

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