Same-sex sex scenes

NicoleH · Jun 13, 2010

First of all, I'm brand new, so apologies if this isn't the right place for this question! (Please do tell me if there's somewhere more sensible to ask...)

That said, my story (still in a first-draft stage) features some graphic sex scenes between my two female main characters. I'm not sure whether I'm going to keep the scenes in, but if I do, how much of a problem is it likely to be that my own same-sex experiences are limited? Will it matter at all? Can imagination make up for a lack of experience, or am I likely to have people who know better laughing hysterically at my poor little story?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Wayne K · Jun 13, 2010

You certainly take that chance. I suggest reading a few scenes to get an idea of what readers look for. Check out some of the SYW stories that people have up here. (You need to ask a mod the password) and post your scene if you're still unsure.

Good luck

Maryn · Jun 13, 2010

The answer is "It depends."

Have you done research, so you know what real girls do together? Have you read other fictional lesbian scenes? Can you get yourself deeply enough in the point of view of your narrating character that if I didn't know better (because you said so), I'd think the author was undoubtedly a lesbian herself? If so, it can definitely work.

That said, I'm among a number of women here who write guy-on-guy scenes. Obviously I have no real experience, but I know enough to sell my fictionalized version. Do gay guys read my stuff and laugh? I'll never know.

It's probably too early, unless you're a brave soul indeed, Nicole, but when the time seems right, you can get the password for the Share Your Work - Erotica forum, post your work, and get feedback both from others who talk the talk as well as some who walk the walk, if you get my drift. Edit: And as Wayne suggested, you can read other people's work and see what their feedback is, and probably learn some things, too.

Maryn, pleased to meet you

WildScribe · Jun 13, 2010

What Maryn said. I want to really emphasize the "post to SYW" part. There are a few bi or lesbian women who are willing to help out there. I don't visit as often as I should, but if you PM me, I would be willing to check it out. Do the research, then get people 'in the know' to critique.

veinglory · Jun 13, 2010

The best way to find out is to get some beta readers and take it from there.

NicoleH · Jun 13, 2010

Thank you all, particularly for suggesting the SYW forum - I hadn't seen it. Do you have to have a certain number of posts or anything before you're allowed in there?

(Thank you particularly to Wildscribe. If I get brave enough, I'll definitely take you up on your offer!)

WildScribe · Jun 13, 2010

No problem. There's no post limit, but you have to PM a mod (like Veinglory) for permission, and let them know that you are over 21. They'll give you the password. Also, you will get more responses if you critique other peoples' work as well. We like people who like to be helpful.

firedrake · Jun 13, 2010

WildScribe said:
No problem. There's no post limit, but you have to PM a mod (like Veinglory) for permission, and let them know that you are over 21. They'll give you the password. Also, you will get more responses if you critique other peoples' work as well. We like people who like to be helpful.

What WildScribe said.

I don't take part in other SYW forums any more, but am always around to post and critique in Erotica SYW

NicoleH · Jun 13, 2010

Thank you firedrake!

Ibelong · Jun 13, 2010

NicoleH said:
First of all, I'm brand new, so apologies if this isn't the right place for this question! (Please do tell me if there's somewhere more sensible to ask...)

That said, my story (still in a first-draft stage) features some graphic sex scenes between my two female main characters. I'm not sure whether I'm going to keep the scenes in, but if I do, how much of a problem is it likely to be that my own same-sex experiences are limited? Will it matter at all? Can imagination make up for a lack of experience, or am I likely to have people who know better laughing hysterically at my poor little story?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

I'll tell you what I did, to get some same sex experience...laugh it you want to...it's okay. God knows, I did.

Anyhow. In my current work I have sex scenes between two guys. Well, needless to say, I'm not gay or a guy so I had two strikes against me. Also when dealing with a self pleasure scene...the same problem applied. Now I read M/M romance, that's practically the only romance I read, however I'd never written it. Then there came the complication of, okay so I read someone else's work, how do I know THEY have it right too?
Well...of course the only answer here was to research. No, I didn't hit the gay bars and do interviews but I did break down and purchase some gay porn.
Yes, I admit it...I watched gay porn for inspiration. Now, that might not seem funny to you but, I can't watch straight porn...seriously....I turn day glow. Why? No clue...it's just so...well...never mind. Porn just isn't my thing, leave it at that.
Found out that gay porn isn't my thing either.
But I watched a few videos, various positions, types of foreplay, etc. and on occasion I go back and double check positioning etc...but it gave me a visual to work from.
So anyhow, that was my approach...not sure yet if it worked, I'll have to wait and see

Captcha · Jun 13, 2010

You have an advantage over women who write m/m, in that at least you have the same equipment as your characters.

I think there are things that writers have their characters do that are stupid because they're physically impossible, but I think there's also an overemphasis on "that's not how 'they' do it" complaints. Nobody but you knows how your characters 'do it', and there isn't a lesbian rule book that dictates how 'it' should be done. If it's physically possible, and if you think it would feel good if someone did it to you, go for it!

jennontheisland · Jun 13, 2010

Women write about gay sex. Law abiding citizens write about crime sprees and murders.

If people only wrote what they'd actually experienced there would be a lot fewer books (or a lot more boring ones) out there.

I've never had a threesome with a Viking and an elf, but I've been told I did a fair job of writing one.

Maryn · Jun 13, 2010

How sheltered your life has been, Jenn--so far. I have this Viking friend who hangs out with this elf...

Maryn, winking

thethinker42 · Jun 13, 2010

NicoleH said:
...how much of a problem is it likely to be that my own same-sex experiences are limited?

I have 5 M/M (and M/M/M) novels published or contracted to be published, all with copious amounts of graphic sex, and I can honestly say I've never experienced sex with/as a gay male.

I haven't run into any problems.

ETA: When I was writing my first, I asked a lot of gay/bi men some very ~~probing~~ personal questions. Went to websites that were intended to be informative about gay sex (i.e., for guys who wanted to give a try, but had questions/concerns). Watched a few gay porn videos, as someone else mentioned. Had beta readers who had experience read over my scenes and tell me if I got it right.

Sex is just like anything else we write about...draw on whatever experiences you've had that are relevant/helpful, draw on others' experiences when you can, and research the rest. You'll be fine.

KathleenD · Jun 13, 2010

YouPorn.

It's a disturbing mix of pro and amateur, but the amateur stuff - where it appears to just be a couple people having fun - is awfully useful.

The pro stuff tends to involve people bent in very strange positions so the viewer can see bits that are usually hidden during actual sex.

But if you're like me and kind of grossed out by videos, I HIGHLY recommend the Nifty archives. Go to nifty.org and just read. The quality varies wildly (it's a giant slush pile for erotic gay fiction), but the good stuff is really, really good, and the authors are usually happy to answer questions/fan mail.

thethinker42 · Jun 13, 2010

KathleenD said:
YouPorn.

It's a disturbing mix of pro and amateur, but the amateur stuff - where it appears to just be a couple people having fun - is awfully useful.

The pro stuff tends to involve people bent in very strange positions so the viewer can see bits that are usually hidden during actual sex.

I'll second YouPorn. And amateur is definitely the way to go. The pro stuff is as fake as it looks, and the amateur stuff is as occasionally clumsy/awkward as the real thing because...well...it is.

Wayne K · Jun 13, 2010

Or you can pass by my house on half price beer night

jennontheisland · Jun 13, 2010

KathleenD said:
YouPorn.

It's a disturbing mix of pro and amateur, but the amateur stuff - where it appears to just be a couple people having fun - is awfully useful.

The pro stuff tends to involve people bent in very strange positions so the viewer can see bits that are usually hidden during actual sex.

But if you're like me and kind of grossed out by videos, I HIGHLY recommend the Nifty archives. Go to nifty.org and just read. The quality varies wildly (it's a giant slush pile for erotic gay fiction), but the good stuff is really, really good, and the authors are usually happy to answer questions/fan mail.

Hm. I've got a pretty good library of f/f stuff in my favourites. I suppose it would be inappropriate to post links.

Alan Yee · Jun 13, 2010

thethinker42 said:
I'll second YouPorn. And amateur is definitely the way to go. The pro stuff is as fake as it looks, and the amateur stuff is as occasionally clumsy/awkward as the real thing because...well...it is.

Yep. Only in the magical world of porn do virgins--gay, straight, or bi--always have wonderful, mind-blowing sex the very first time. And in that same world, people experienced in sex continue to have mind-blowing sex every single time. *rolls eyes*

Gay porn (as well as other research) can be especially helpful even for gay people trying to write gay sex. Because, you know, some gay people haven't actually had sex yet. **coughcough**

Bookewyrme · Jun 13, 2010

You can also find books and things, as well as online sources as someone else mentioned. I'd recommend checking out the lgbt section (if they have one) of your local store, and look for the books aimed at new lesbians (I'm thinking of titles like "The Whole Lesbian Sex Book"). And, don't laugh, but web-comics can be helpful too (for the same reasons as porn) by giving visual aids. The advantage with comics is they generally have more emphasis on the story-telling complements to sex than porn does.

Anyway, good luck. And just remember, if it doesn't come out right the first time, you can always make it better the next go 'round.

NicoleH · Jun 14, 2010

You are all awesome, wonderful people - thank you so much for your suggestions! I wouldn't have thought of books and websites for people who think they might be gay, but that's a brilliant idea. Same with comics and porn - any suggestions of female directors/writers who make semi realistic porn would be welcome, though I'll definitely check out YouPorn's amateur section.

(And doesn't everyone have Viking/elf threesomes on a Friday night? It's what makes the weekend worth waiting for, if you ask me.)

NicoleH · Jun 16, 2010

I've got bored of staring at it wondering whether it works or not, so have been brave and put a scene up for comments in SYW - be gentle as you mock it...

jennontheisland · Jun 16, 2010

You might want to add a link for those of us who are too lazy to go looking for it.

NicoleH · Jun 16, 2010

Oops - sorry! It's http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183067

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