question about the olden days...

Sunrise2Fantasy · Aug 29, 2005

I am currently writing a book that takes place mostly in the olden days, and it's the time where swords and knives are used, possibly when guns are being introduced, and maybe one of the first Ford cars.
Anyways, to my question...what type of food would they eat around this time? I've already figured venison, beef, stuff like that. But what about breakfast, lunch and dinner selections. Or a selection of something when your on a journey and food might be scarce?
I would appreciate any help asap. A wide variety of options and selections would be helpful. Or at least a way to search it over the net or at a library. {If you've read my other posts I've also included this; google hates me. I can't search things on it very good.}
Thanks,
~Lizz

Sunrise2Fantasy · Aug 29, 2005

P.S.

one other thing. I need help on what kind of setting it would be. If the first Ford cars are availible, and the possibility of guns being out there, what was used for lighting by then? {I forget when it was created, it's the summer, where my brain basically goes dead.} What other technical things were availible?

AND~It would be nice for an opinion on the following;
should I base it in the olden days, the only reason I was doing so in the first place was the swords. Basically people can still use swords nowadays. What do you think?
Again, I appreciate the help.

sunandshadow · Aug 29, 2005

Sunrise2Fantasy said:
I am currently writing a book that takes place mostly in the olden days, and it's the time where swords and knives are used, possibly when guns are being introduced, and maybe one of the first Ford cars.
Anyways, to my question...what type of food would they eat around this time? I've already figured venison, beef, stuff like that. But what about breakfast, lunch and dinner selections. Or a selection of something when your on a journey and food might be scarce?
I would appreciate any help asap. A wide variety of options and selections would be helpful. Or at least a way to search it over the net or at a library. {If you've read my other posts I've also included this; google hates me. I can't search things on it very good.}
Thanks,
~Lizz

Uh, swords and cars at the same time? Swords were relegated to ornamental use by the invention of guns, and guns were invented more than a century before cars. So... Are you writing something that's supposed to be historically accurate? If so, what country and century (or preferably decade) is it set in. Or, if you're creating an alternate history, fantasy set in a pre-modern culture, or steampunk science fiction, which is it and what do you want the setting to feel like and accomplish?

SJB · Aug 29, 2005

Chuckle, guffaw, giggle.

three seven · Aug 29, 2005

The Model T Ford was produced between 1908 and 1927, the Model A from '28 to '31.

All that really happened in that time, apart from the first world war of course, was Prohibition and the rise of the Ku Klux Klan. None of which involved swords.

The first electric light was invented in 1800, and the modern carbon-filament lightbulb was patented in 1881.

The handgun was invented in the mid 15th century, FYI. The flintlock musket made it a useful proposition in 1612. More pertinently, The Colt revolver was patented in 1836 and the Gatling gun in 1861, both of which predate the invention of the horseless carriage.

I'd suggest that before you worry about what your characters are eating, you place them somewhere more specific than 'the olden days'.

MarkPettus · Aug 29, 2005

Sunrise,

Good luck with your story. I recommend that you ignore setting and food and transportation for the moment and just get your characters up and walking around. With a little luck they will take you where they want to go and eat what they want to eat and you won't have to make those decisions (trust me, it happens).

The second half of your name is fantasy, so perhaps you should consider a fantasy story. In a world of your own creation people can use swords, fly airplanes, and eat live earthworms for dessert.

Remember that planning to write, preparing to write, and asking questions about writing, aren't writing. Write every day. Write much and write often. Good Luck.

Aconite · Aug 29, 2005

Sunrise, in addition to when the story takes place (and wow, are you going to have to get more specific than "olden days"), it matters where, too. What folks ate in China for breakfast in 1750 is very different than Alaska in 1925 or France in 1490. As for lighting, it could be anything from tallow candles to dung fires to gaslights to oil lamps to bulbs, depending on when and where. You're really going to need to pin down the specifics.

James D. Macdonald · Aug 29, 2005

A Reading List for Aspiring Fantasists

Danger Jane · Aug 29, 2005

Ah, "the olden days" doesn't mean much...

They've had guns for like four or five hundred years...

James D. Macdonald · Aug 29, 2005

In days of old when knights were bold
And ladies weren't particular....

Danger Jane · Aug 29, 2005

lmao, yes.

zornhau · Aug 29, 2005

sunandshadow said:
Uh, swords and cars at the same time? Swords were relegated to ornamental use by the invention of guns, and guns were invented more than a century before cars.

Um. Guns and swords coexisted on the field through much of military history. The ritters of the army of Gustav Adolphus even combined to two in the 1630s. There were successful cavalry sabre charges in WWI in the Middle East. According to P. Wright's "Tank", the Poles managed to get in at least one sabre fest at the expense of the Nazis. Sword duelling continued in various countries well into the 1900s.

It sounds as if the original poster is writing a Ruritanean fantasy. If so, they would do well to read the original "The Prisoner of Zenda" and Edgar Rice Burrough's homage to it, "The Mad King" (Free at http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/364). They should probably narrow their research down to the 1900s - Olden Days is a little too vague.

Sassenach · Aug 29, 2005

Sunrise2Fantasy said:
I am currently writing a book that takes place mostly in the olden days, and it's the time where swords and knives are used, possibly when guns are being introduced, and maybe one of the first Ford cars.
Anyways, to my question...what type of food would they eat around this time? I've already figured venison, beef, stuff like that. But what about breakfast, lunch and dinner selections. Or a selection of something when your on a journey and food might be scarce?
I would appreciate any help asap. A wide variety of options and selections would be helpful. Or at least a way to search it over the net or at a library. {If you've read my other posts I've also included this; google hates me. I can't search things on it very good.}
Thanks,
~Lizz

Just research "breakfast in the olden days."

Sheesh...sometimes the posts on AW are stranger than fiction.

Jaycinth · Aug 29, 2005

Most people "broke their fast" with what ever was left over and not too spoiled from the night before. And considering that "most people" were not in the privelaged class, that usually meant hard bread dipped in tea or broth.

Oh yes, gruel was 'popular'. Steal a hand full of the horses oats and boil.

aadams73 · Aug 29, 2005

You could probably find a lot of what you're looking for at Wikipedia. Here's a search for "breakfast", it pulls up all kinds of worldwide foodstuffs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakfast

You might also ask a History teacher at school for some text references.

jackie106 · Aug 29, 2005

Sunrise2Fantasy said:
Or a selection of something when your on a journey and food might be scarce?

If you are on the road and food is scarce, you eat what you can. You could catch fish, steal eggs from nests, pick berries, and trap rabbits. A Boy Scount manual will give you lots of good information about how to live off the land.

In Don Quixote, Sancho Panza seemed to live on dried cheese and stale bread. Also, people took flasks of wine with them because water was often undrinkable.

One of the best places to start doing historical research is in the children's section of the local library. The books have a lot of pictures and it only takes and afternoon to familiarize yourself with the time period. Of course, you will probably need to do more research in the adult section for your second draft.

Jackie

reph · Aug 29, 2005

A useful reference book is James Trager (ed.), The People's Chronology: A Year-by-Year Record of Human Events from Prehistory to the Present (Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1979). It answers questions like "When did Europe suffer famines?" and "When was canned food introduced?"

Sample entries concerning diet:

(A.D. 1070) Roquefort cheese is discovered in France.

(1226) England's 19-year-old Henry III asks the mayor of Winchester to obtain 3 pounds of sugar, a quantity considered enormous.

(1536) England begins to suffer shortages of honey as monasteries which raised honey bees as a source of wax for votive candles are dissolved pursuant to the 1534 Act of Supremacy.

(1731) Half a pint of rum in two equal tots becomes the official ration for all hands in the British Royal Navy....

(1899) Carnation evaporated milk is supplied in 16-ounce cans to Klondike-bound gold seekers by Elbridge Amos Stuart who has set up a small plant at Kent, Wash.,....An Indiana Quaker who became a grocer at El Paso, Tex., Stuart has come to suspect that bad milk is the cause of so many children dying of "summer complaint" and has invested his savings in a new process to manufacture canned, sterilized, evaporated milk....

LloydBrown · Aug 29, 2005

reph said:
A useful reference book is James Trager (ed.), The People's Chronology: A Year-by-Year Record of Human Events from Prehistory to the Present (Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1979). It answers questions like "When did Europe suffer famines?" and "When was canned food introduced?"

I love the Timetables of History. I'm going to have to get this one. Thanks, Reph!

pdr · Aug 29, 2005

Thank you UJ!

I've finally got myself a cheap copy of Elizabeth David's bread book! I've been trying to find a reasonably priced one for a while.

AncientEagle · Aug 29, 2005

giving alcohol to babies

reph said:
(1731) Half a pint of rum in two equal tots becomes the official ration

I'll go along with most things, but not feeding rum to a couple of tots, whether they are equal or not.

Nevertheless, Reph, you are truly a blessing in the sky.

reph · Aug 29, 2005

I know where that came from, A. Eagle, but I'll thank you anyway. There should be a word for prose mondegreens.

On Trager's report, I keep thinking "Roquefort cheese is discovered in France, way back in the fridge. No telling how long it'd been there."

Sunrise2Fantasy · Aug 29, 2005

As far as I know, swords were still used about the same time as guns. And I did say possibly guns, I am not sure if I want to include them or not. And maybe I could turn that part around, I didn't know that piece of information about guns being made a century before cars. Unfortunatly history is never history in our school. I am trying to decide which century, and I'm not even sure of the place yet, it might just be one of those stories where the type of place isn't even mentioned.
Three Seven; that's what I am trying to figure out. I want my characters to use swords and all, but I'm not exactly positive what time zone I want it set it. In Daredevil and a few other movies, they used swords in a modern time, so I might be setting them in something like that, then of course I don't even need to worry about food. But I am not quite sure yet.
Markpettus; thanks! I appreciate it. Yea, that could be possible, and I was thinking about taking that route of modern technology and the sword thing. It's not like the rest of the book has any major setting or era to go along with. And about the second part of my name; I like fantasy and read it a lot, and in this book there is going to be a lot of mythical stuff.
Aconite; I know I have to be more specific, I just meant the olden days at random. Like I said, I'm not even sure what era to set my story in. I'm pretty set for the place, as I mentioned before; I might just not even say the place in the story, or just make up my own. I am not very good with describing real places in stories, the landmarks, areas and all. The lighting of course I pretty much want electrical unless I go the route of before the electric bulb was made. I guess the place would pretty much be America or Italy. That's basically where I base most of my books anyways. Unless of course its made up.
Zornhau; I remember world war I they used cabornets or whatever their called, where they stuck a blade on the top if you ran out of bullets or had to charge with little or no loading time. What is a Ruritanean fantasy?
And yea, I realized olden days was a little too vague for you all, sorry about that. I was just hoping to get scraps of info like when the guns and swords co-existed and the cars were made, I'm sorry that I wasnt too specific of that. But I may just go ahead and place it in a more modern time zone, such as current, if I cant place the characters in more of the older ones mentioned by you guys.
Sassenach; I tried that. The pages google came up with told me nothing. Or at least nothing that helped me out in my situation. I wouldnt have posted on here if I didnt research it a little at first.
Jackie106; I should have known that, shouldnt I have? Wow I feel dumb.
Thanks, all of you. This is helping me a great deal. Now I just have to decide between a more current era or an old one.

Unimportant · Aug 29, 2005

S2F, I think you mean bayonets.

It's not uncommon to waffle between times/places when deciding on setting, since often one finds in hindsight that one's story, as originally outlined, doesn't fit with something critical in the chosen setting. I'd strongly suggest going to the library for a day and heavily researching your chosen setting(s), to make sure the one you ultimately choose is going to suit your story -- preferably before you get too far into planning the storyline.

Secondary texts are good for overviews; primary texts are ideal for getting those cool details and twiddly bits, and for getting a real flavour of the time/place; the internet ranks a poor third as a research source, as it's very difficult to sift the good/correct information from the overwhelming plethora of bad information.

"Write what you know" is a pretty good mantra. If you're using a real setting you'll need to know it inside out to make it believable; if you're using a made-up one, you'll need to know it _and_ it'll have to be designed so every aspect of it is believable. Research is half the fun of writing the story, and often helps develop the storyline.

my $0.02

AncientEagle · Aug 29, 2005

And for what it's worth, bayonets continued to be used in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam, though less frequently perhaps than in the past. And they are still part of the equipment today, for one never knows when such a thing might come in handy.

AncientEagle · Aug 29, 2005

mondegreens and tuesdaygreens

reph said:
I There should be a word for prose mondegreens.

Lord and behold, I think you're right!

(A fridge in France in 1070? But wasn't that in the olden days?)

question about the olden days...

Impractical Fantasy Animal

Lhude sing cuccu!

(Graeme Cameron)

Writer and Editor

Your Genial Uncle

Your Genial Uncle

Swordsman

5 W's & an H

Your Cuddly Sociopathic

A Work in Progress

Fig of authority

Old kid, no need to be gentle.

Fig of authority

doggone

Old kid, no need to be gentle.

Old kid, no need to be gentle.