Very angry! Concerning Black Label Books.

SouthernFriedJulie · Jun 3, 2010

Hey guys. I posted a call for submissions a while back in Paying Markets for the new imprint, Black Label Books. We've signed an author from AW and things are looking bright.

You probably wonder, why am I angry then?

Well, Julia Temlyn and I did a bit of editing for a [certain other new e-publisher]. We both left that house for reasons I won't state here. I started Black Label to offer authors a place to publish short erotica and other genres as well.

My husband went to purchase BlackLabelBooks.com for me and Julia as a surprise today. The name domain was taken. Which was odd, he checked it a few days ago and it was available.

Julia did a WhoIs search and found that [a certain person] had purchased the domain - yesterday, June 3rd. To say we are angry is an understatement. We want everyone to be aware that if any writer submits to Black Label Books dot COM, they are really submitting to [this other house], not us.

We do not want our budding business to be ruined by this and by what may be fraudulent communications from someone impersonating one or both of us.

Thank you for being patient as we resolve this! I or Julia will post updates in the Paying Markets forum for those of you that visit there.

*Contacted a lawyer and removed the names. Public WhoIs results I cannot control.

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179233

Deleted member 42 · Jun 3, 2010

I'd consult a lawyer at this point, and not post publicly about it. I'd do it now.

SouthernFriedJulie · Jun 3, 2010

Looking for one now. Sorry...this is just so fresh. Thank you, Medievalist.

Mac H. · Jun 3, 2010

Huh?

The other guys have been talking about their 'Black Label' label since March.
The blog post announcing your 'Black Label' group was in May.

So why do they have less of a right to the domain name than you ?

Did either of you register it as a trademark?

Mac
(PS: I'd avoid registering the same domain name with a different suffix -eg: .biz,.net, .info
The problem is that the .com is so ubiquitous that many people will do it naturally - so whenever you mention your own domain name you'll be guaranteed to lose customers to the other one.

There was a nice case study (that I can't find right now) with a TV ad driving people to a 'BeautyProducts.info' or some such - it turned out to send about 20 thousand extra viewers to 'BeautyProducts.com' instead, who were their direct competitors!

I wish I could find the link - it was interesting how we tend to just add the '.com' at the end automatically)

SouthernFriedJulie · Jun 3, 2010

Mac H. said:
Huh?

The other guys have been talking about their 'Black Label' label since March.
The blog post announcing your 'Black Label' group was in May.

So why do they have less of a right to the domain name than you ?

Did either of you register it as a trademark?

The other guy's 'black label' is a heat level. One /I/ came up with. It was never meant to be a new website.

Why do they have less right? It's a totally different animal- a heat level compared to an entire press. I also pulled the Halloween series from her press- the woman wrote me and told me "I know you can't copyright titles and ideas, so we're doing this anyway."

Sure, that's fine.

Trademark:No and you can bet your behind I will be.

Re, the P.S.: That's exactly why she did this. We both use the same Yahoo group to reach some authors. I mentioned in a promo chat that we'd be putting the official site up soon. She did this only to hurt us because she blames us for their problems (other editors leaving, authors withdrawing). What better way to spite that to buy 'our' domain? Based on personal experience, I have no doubt this person would try to impersonate me or my partner. If you think I'm being paranoid- I'm sorry...really, I'm not. It's a real possibility.

Stacia Kane · Jun 3, 2010

I recommend you come up with a new name for your venture, and register the domain name before you announce it. The surest way to lose your domain name is to go public with it before it's registered; if it hadn't been this person who bought it out from under you it would have been someone else.

Registering your domain name before doing business under that name or announcing plans to do business under that name is pretty basic business acumen.

Rather than bother with lawyers etc., I'd consider this a lesson that luckily didn't cost much, and move on.

(And IANAL, but I seriously doubt you'd have a chance at winning in court; they can prove publicly they were using the name first--no matter who came up with it--and since you didn't register it before they did or register the trademark before they did, you lose out. Sorry, but that's my belief, anyway. I fully believe you when you say this was done just to hurt you or get revenge; it sounds that way to me, too. But a court isn't going to care, especially not when they can argue they registered it to prevent you from working under a name they were already using.)

JMA.

Paul · Jun 4, 2010

As above.
Move on, or it'll sap your energy, with no positive outcome.
No trademark, trading name, etc = no primary rights.
Once mentioned in the public domain = no exclusivity.
This is a 'live n learn' opportunity. Deeply annoying but :shrug

SouthernFriedJulie · Jun 4, 2010

I'll see what the lawyer says before I do anything else. I already have authors contracted under this.

KTC · Jun 4, 2010

Stacie's advice is spot on. And as Paul says, "Move on, or it'll sap your energy, with no positive outcome." I wouldn't put any energy into fighting this. Just change the name and do everything you have to do before announcing it.

veinglory · Jun 4, 2010

If you came up with one good name I am sure you can come up with another

SouthernFriedJulie · Jun 4, 2010

Thanks. I do have one ready- not saying a word until everything is set. Not going to make the same mistake twice.

Thanks everyone for the advice and support. I feel pretty stupid that this happened, the main reason I went with a free host at first was to be able to offer what I consider fair royalties to our authors.

Have thought long and hard - not going to let this get us down! Two new submissions this morning shows that our ideals and approach will get us through.

alleycat · Jun 4, 2010

veinglory said:
If you came up with one good name I am sure you can come up with another

And we'd be glad to offer suggestions.

Red Label Books

Dark Soul Books

Black Knight Books

Blackheart Books

Wonderlust Books

Sensuous Delights Books

Dark Woods Books

Erotic Delights Books

Passion Fruit Books

Blackstar Books

Nightime Books

etc., etc., etc.

veinglory · Jun 4, 2010

What about Top Shelf? It has the same hints of quality + naughty

SouthernFriedJulie · Jun 4, 2010

You guys rock. I swear I adore AW.

Margarita Skies · Jun 4, 2010

SouthernFriedJulie said:
You guys rock. I swear I adore AW.

You are absolutely right. These people are amazing! They even gave you at least 10 - 15 new names you should consider for your company, and I loved the names, too! You'd be fine with any of these names, and you won't go through all the legal hassle of losing to these people in court and you would also be saving a lot of money.

dclary · Jun 4, 2010

Mac H. said:
Huh?

The other guys have been talking about their 'Black Label' label since March.
The blog post announcing your 'Black Label' group was in May.

So why do they have less of a right to the domain name than you ?

Did either of you register it as a trademark?

Mac
(PS: I'd avoid registering the same domain name with a different suffix -eg: .biz,.net, .info
The problem is that the .com is so ubiquitous that many people will do it naturally - so whenever you mention your own domain name you'll be guaranteed to lose customers to the other one.

There was a nice case study (that I can't find right now) with a TV ad driving people to a 'BeautyProducts.info' or some such - it turned out to send about 20 thousand extra viewers to 'BeautyProducts.com' instead, who were their direct competitors!

I wish I could find the link - it was interesting how we tend to just add the '.com' at the end automatically)

I wonder if TheOneRing.net and TheOneRing.com have the same problem. I am a TORN'er, but sometimes I accidentally go to TORC.

dclary · Jun 4, 2010

Stacia Kane said:
I recommend you come up with a new name for your venture, and register the domain name before you announce it. The surest way to lose your domain name is to go public with it before it's registered; if it hadn't been this person who bought it out from under you it would have been someone else.

Registering your domain name before doing business under that name or announcing plans to do business under that name is pretty basic business acumen.

Rather than bother with lawyers etc., I'd consider this a lesson that luckily didn't cost much, and move on.

(And IANAL, but I seriously doubt you'd have a chance at winning in court; they can prove publicly they were using the name first--no matter who came up with it--and since you didn't register it before they did or register the trademark before they did, you lose out. Sorry, but that's my belief, anyway. I fully believe you when you say this was done just to hurt you or get revenge; it sounds that way to me, too. But a court isn't going to care, especially not when they can argue they registered it to prevent you from working under a name they were already using.)

JMA.

Also -- be prepared to buy the domain name the day you look for it. I have had instances where I've come up with a great domain name idea, looked it up, decided to buy it... only to return a few days later with money and find it has already been bought.

Marcus Avenier · Jun 4, 2010

Also, if you plan to register a FBN, buy the domain first. Some people keep tabs on the FBN listings and squat the names.

benbradley · Jun 4, 2010

Yes sir, get yer .com domains while they're hot.

There's a site where I put some original songs from a few months ago, February Album Writing Month, fawm.org (and yes, the site was inspired partly by NaNoWriMo). Some guy on the forum there wrote how he was at the office telling a co-worker about his music. So he opened up a web browser and typed ...

thethinker42 · Jun 4, 2010

benbradley said:
Yes sir, get yer .com domains while they're hot.

There's a site where I put some original songs from a few months ago, February Album Writing Month, fawm.org (and yes, the site was inspired partly by NaNoWriMo). Some guy on the forum there wrote how he was at the office telling a co-worker about his music. So he opened up a web browser and typed ...

LMAO

Erin · Jun 4, 2010

dclary said:
Also -- be prepared to buy the domain name the day you look for it. I have had instances where I've come up with a great domain name idea, looked it up, decided to buy it... only to return a few days later with money and find it has already been bought.

This is because unscrupulous people have software programs that run on these domain lookup sites to buy up the domains people search on but don't purchase right away. They then will try to sell it to you at an exorbitant price if you approach them.

If you look it up, prepare to buy it immediately. Looking it up by typing it into your browser bar doesn't generally trigger these programs, so you should be safe doing your research that way.

MargueriteMing · Jun 5, 2010

You should buy not only the domain name itself, but any derivative names as well. For example:

blacklabel.com
black-label.com
black_label.com
blacklabel.net

etc.

Anything that people might type in to go to your site, you should buy, and have them all redirect to your main web site. That way nobody can set up lookalikes. It's only about $20 to register a domain for a year, so it's cheap insurance. Plus, it makes it easier for people to find you.

Very angry! Concerning Black Label Books.

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