Ellipses question...

Danger Jane · Aug 28, 2005

I feel somewhat stupid asking a grammar question, like, because it's GRAMMAR and all, but I do need to know.

When you use ellipses, do you use a space anywhere? I'm sort of thinking you don't ("Yes...I do"), but maybe you do? ("Yes... I do").

Something that might not matter, but hey, editors might care? Also I am OCD?

Also, when italicizing a word before punctuation, do you italicize the punctiation as well? Not really a matter before a period, but before an exclamation mark or question mark--does it matter at all??

three seven · Aug 28, 2005

You should italicise the punctuation mark if it punctuates the italicised text:

Woah! I'd found my dad's Playboy!

James D. Macdonald · Aug 28, 2005

There aren't any spaces in elipses.

Danger Jane · Aug 28, 2005

Okay, that's what I thought. Thank you.

Eew, I can't believe I had to ASK those questions...

reph · Aug 28, 2005

From the Chicago manual (12th ed.), Chapter 6:

What is meant by random selection?

In the last example note the italic question mark. This illustrates the printer's rule that punctuation is set in the style of the immediately preceding word.

From Chapter 10:

Any omission of a word or phrase, line or paragraph, from a quoted passage must be indicated by ellipsis points (dots). . . . The ellipsis points . . . are separated from each other and from the text and any contiguous punctuation by 3-to-em spaces. The number of dots and the spacing between them and the preceding and following words are important and should be checked carefully. . . .

Three dots indicate an omission within a sentence or between the first and last words of a quoted fragment of a sentence. . . .

Four dots – a period, followed by three spaced dots – indicate the omission of (1) the last part of the quoted sentence, (2) the first part of the next sentence, (3) a whole sentence or more, or (4) a whole paragraph or more. When there is a question mark or an exclamation point in place of the period in the original, this mark is retained and three dots used for the ellipsis. . . .

cwfgal · Aug 28, 2005

I've had publishers request ellipses both ways: with spaces before and after, and without any spaces. Some like the spaces because otherwise most word processing software recognizes the ellipses and the word before and after as one giant word, causing some oddly spaced word wraps at times.

Don't worry about it too much, just do it consistently throughout your work. If and when you get a specific publisher, they'll let you know if they have a preference.

Beth

reph · Aug 29, 2005

The material I posted comes from the days of real typesetting, before books were printed from MS Word files. Typesetters made sure a line break didn't interrupt an ellipsis.

maestrowork · Aug 29, 2005

no spaces.

Danger Jane · Aug 29, 2005

Mmkay, thanks.

reph · Aug 29, 2005

Ellipses in printed books have spaces.

veinglory · Aug 29, 2005

I have been leaving a space after the ellipsis and haven't been corrected yet--but perhaps just because I am getting away with it rather than because it is correct. I suspect it is a matter of house style.

Jamesaritchie · Aug 29, 2005

ellipsis

Ellipses should have spaces between the dots. MS Word should be set to do this automatically. If it isn't, you can easily set it to do so. But it's no big deal. The editor will simply put in the spaces if you don't.

Aconite · Aug 29, 2005

reph said:
Ellipses in printed books have spaces.

*blink* Can you remember where you saw that? All the ones I've looked through have no spaces. I can't imagine why any publisher would waste line space that way.

Sembre · Aug 29, 2005

It's not correct, but I've always used a space before and after ellipses, none between ...

Sembre :Coffee:

veinglory · Aug 29, 2005

Aconite said:
*blink* Can you remember where you saw that? All the ones I've looked through have no spaces. I can't imagine why any publisher would waste line space that way.

I picked up the nearest book (St. Martins paperback) and found it has spaces before and after. A space or two won't break the bank.

reph · Aug 29, 2005

Aconite said:
*blink* Can you remember where you saw that [i.e., ellipses in printed books have spaces]? All the ones I've looked through have no spaces. I can't imagine why any publisher would waste line space that way.

I saw it in printed books.

You might not identify them as spaces, because they're small, but ellipses with spaces look different from ellipses without. The latter are incredibly scrunched.

I'm talking about books and magazines. Conventionally, in comic-book lettering, spaces are omitted, but that's hand lettering or a computer imitation of it, and it's done legibly. Typing in chat rooms and on message boards, where people usually don't space (including me), should similarly not be used as a model for matter to be typeset.

I wonder where people who post that spaces are incorrect got their information. I provided an authoritative source for spacing between the dots. What's the source for not spacing?

Danger Jane · Aug 29, 2005

Sometimes Word will automatically bring them apart.

Euan H. · Aug 29, 2005

AFAIK, reph's right. Ellipses should look like this: . . .

and not this: ...

I think the default for MS word is to squash them even further together than they are above, but you can tweak it to auto-insert the spaces in the auto-correct options.

Torgo · Aug 30, 2005

The styling of ellipses is a matter of house style. Different publishing houses will do different things with them. For example, we use unspaced ellipses - that it, three dots with no spaces between them. Our US sister company uses spaced ellipses. They also use a four-dot ellipse if it comes at the end of a sentence; we don't.

In our house style, if the ellipse is being used to convey a sentence just trailing off, there should be no space before the ellipse. If it's being used to convey a gap in the middle of a sentence, and the sentence continues after the ellipse, there should be a space on either side of the ellipse.

There's no authority on how these should be styled, I'm afraid. Nobody's going to shoot you for missing a space out here and there, that's what proofreaders are for.

Aconite · Aug 30, 2005

Euan H. said:
AFAIK, reph's right. Ellipses should look like this: . . .

and not this: ...

Ah! I thought reph was describing this: word ... word

And reph, I meant where you'd seen examples of it, not where you saw the citation.

reph · Aug 30, 2005

Aconite said:
And reph, I meant where you'd seen examples of it, not where you saw the citation.

I know. I answered in accordance with that understanding of your question. To clarify: I've seen spaced ellipsis points in practice in printed books.

Times Roman and similar fonts used for book text don't look like monospaced Courier. A period in a wide-and-narrow font is tiny. Three or four of them with no spaces look dismal.

Aconite · Aug 30, 2005

reph said:
A period in a wide-and-narrow font is tiny. Three or four of them with no spaces look dismal.

Dismal, if you can read them at all at normal reading glance. Once my poor, tired brain got that you meant spaces between the periods, everything made perfect sense. Thanks, everyone, for clarifying.

Ellipses question...

Danger Jane

three seven

(Graeme Cameron)

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

Danger Jane

reph

Fig of authority

cwfgal

On the rocks

reph

Fig of authority

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

Danger Jane

reph

Fig of authority

veinglory

volitare nequeo

Jamesaritchie

Aconite

Sembre

veinglory

volitare nequeo

reph

Fig of authority

Danger Jane

Euan H.

Unspeakable

Torgo

Formerly Phantom of Krankor.

Aconite

reph

Fig of authority

Aconite