Dialogue Tags

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Sargentodiaz

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My editor is having problems with the dialogue tags I used in my novel. He’s struggled with the writing style manual and discussions with other editors. I can see his problem and wonder if I, as the author, should make some changes so that such problems are moot.

Here are two examples. Joe is the story teller. The quotes indicate him speaking. But, I wonder if there’s a better way to do this to delete quotes, both single and double.

=====

“Once, long ago,” Joe said, “Coyote decided to take a wife but didn't know whom to choose.”

“’Why not take the wife of Hawk Chief?” ?’ Bat said, for Hawk Chief had not been seen for many days. “Perhaps he is not returning.”


“When Hawk Chief returned several days later, he became angry at Bat for giving such ill-considered advice. He picked Bat up and slung him with full force into a juniper bush.


“Poor Bat hung upside down in the bush, caught by his long, pointy-toed moccasins. He twisted and he turned. However much he struggled, he could not get free.”


With a grin, Joe finished, “And from that time on, bats hang upside down - even when they sleep.”
=====
Possibility?

“Once, long ago,” Joe said, “Coyote decided to take a wife but didn't know whom to choose.”

Joe explained that Bat asked, “’Why not take the wife of Hawk Chief? Hawk Chief has not been seen for many days. Perhaps he is not returning.?

“When Hawk Chief returned several days later, he became angry at Bat for giving such ill-considered advice. He picked Bat up and slung him with full force into a juniper bush.


“Poor Bat hung upside down in the bush, caught by his long, pointy-toed moccasins. He twisted and he turned. However much he struggled, he could not get free.”


With a grin, Joe finished, “And from that time on, bats hang upside down - even when they sleep.”

==========
Next example -

When Ray didn’t say anything more, Joe continued the story.

“Long ago, Killer-of-Enemies vowed to save his people from the terror of monster eagles that roamed the skies and carried off children. Killer-of-Enemies tricked one monster eagle into carrying him up to the eagle nest on the cliff where he killed the monster eagle and its family.”

“Killer-of-Enemies didn't know how to get down from the cliff. Just then, he saw an old woman approaching. It was Old Woman Bat.

“Killer-of-Enemies called out. “’Grandmother, help me. Take me down.” .’

“Old Woman Bat looked all around but didn't see him.

“Killer-of-Enemies called out again,. and again... and again.

“Finally, Old Woman Bat saw him high in the eagle's nest. She came over to the cliff and began to climb. “’What are you doing here?” ?’ she asked when she reached the top.

“’Monster Eagle carried me up here. Please take me down.”.’

“’Climb in my basket,” ,’ Old Woman Bat told him.

“Killer of Enemies looked at the burden basket on the old woman's back. Its carrying strap was made of spider's silk.

“’That strap is too fine,” ,’ he said. “’It will break and I shall fall.”.’

“’Nonsense! I've carried a bighorn sheep in this basket,” ,’ Old Woman Bat glared at him “’Get in and close your eyes. If you look, we will fall.”.’

“Old Woman Bat clambered down the rock, singing a strange song. Her burden basket swayed wildly from side to side.

“Killer-of-Enemies thought the spider thread would surely break, so he opened his eyes to look.

“As soon as Kill-of-Enemies opened his eyes, he and Old Woman Bat crashed down from the cliff.

“Old Woman Bat landed first and broke her legs.

“Killer-of-Enemies fell on top of her and was safe.

“Old Woman Bat's broken legs soon mended, but from that day on her legs were short.”

=====
Next possibility -

When Ray didn’t say anything more, Joe continued the story.

“Long ago, Killer-of-Enemies vowed to save his people from the terror of monster eagles that roamed the skies and carried off children. Killer-of-Enemies tricked one monster eagle into carrying him up to the eagle nest on the cliff where he killed the monster eagle and its family.”

“Killer-of-Enemies didn't know how to get down from the cliff. Just then, he saw an old woman approaching. It was Old Woman Bat.”

Joe then said that Killer-of-Enemies called out. “Grandmother, help me. Take me down.”

“Old Woman Bat looked all around but didn't see him.

“Killer-of-Enemies called out again,. and again... and again.

Joe told them that finally, Old Woman Bat saw him high in the eagle's nest. She came over to the cliff and began to climb. “What are you doing here?” she asked when she reached the top.

“Monster Eagle carried me up here. Please take me down.”

“Climb in my basket,” Old Woman Bat told him.

“Killer of Enemies looked at the burden basket on the old woman's back. Its carrying strap was made of spider's silk.

“’That strap is too fine,” ,’ he said. “’It will break and I shall fall.”.’

“’Nonsense! I've carried a bighorn sheep in this basket,” ,’ Old Woman Bat glared at him “’Get in and close your eyes. If you look, we will fall.”.’

“Old Woman Bat clambered down the rock, singing a strange song. Her burden basket swayed wildly from side to side.

“Killer-of-Enemies thought the spider thread would surely break, so he opened his eyes to look.

“As soon as Kill-of-Enemies opened his eyes, he and Old Woman Bat crashed down from the cliff.

“Old Woman Bat landed first and broke her legs.

“Killer-of-Enemies fell on top of her and was safe.

“Old Woman Bat's broken legs soon mended, but from that day on her legs were short.”

==========
I’m just wonder that by interjecting more in the story within a story I might be able to not get caught up in ‘ versus ‘” and so on.

Thoughts/
Suggestions.
Thanks
 

maestrowork

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For the most part, I don't see the problem with your tags.

Except these:

“’Why not take the wife of Hawk Chief?” ?’ Bat said, for Hawk Chief had not been seen for many days. “Perhaps he is not returning.”

This is just weird. The quotes don't make sense. Is he quoting someone else? Does it matter if you indicate they're quoted speech? I'd prefer it written this way:

“Why not take the wife of Hawk Chief?" Bat said. Hawk Chief had not been seen for many days. “Perhaps he is not returning.”

With a grin, Joe finished, “And from that time on, bats hang upside down - even when they sleep.”

I don't like the use of "finished" as a tag. Or you can use a colon instead of a comma.

With a grin, Joe finished: "And from that time on, bats hang upside down..."

or you can reverse the order:

"And from that time on, bats hang upside down," Joe said with a grin.

*Finished* is unnecessary.


Joe explained that Bat asked, “’Why not take the wife of Hawk Chief? Hawk Chief has not been seen for many days. Perhaps he is not returning.?

“When Hawk Chief returned several days later, he became angry at Bat for giving such ill-considered advice. He picked Bat up and slung him with full force into a juniper bush.


“Poor Bat hung upside down in the bush, caught by his long, pointy-toed moccasins. He twisted and he turned. However much he struggled, he could not get free.”

You have three paragraphs of the same dialogue. Is it necessary? Why not just keep them in one paragraph and limit the confusion?


Joe explained that Bat asked: “Why not take the wife of Hawk Chief? Hawk Chief has not been seen for many days. Perhaps he is not returning? When Hawk Chief returned several days later, he became angry at Bat for giving such ill-considered advice. He picked Bat up and slung him with full force into a juniper bush. Poor Bat hung upside down in the bush, caught by his long, pointy-toed moccasins. He twisted and he turned. However much he struggled, he could not get free.” With a grin, he finished. “And from that time on, bats hang upside down - even when they sleep.”

“Killer-of-Enemies called out. “’Grandmother, help me. Take me down.” .’

I have no idea why you wrote the quotes that way. Huh? Did you mean this:

"Killer-of-Enemies called out: 'Grandmother, help me. Take me down.' "


Once again, you're using many paragraphs in this. And I know why, but you should keep it as a narrative instead:



When Ray didn’t say anything more, Joe continued the story:

Long ago, Killer-of-Enemies vowed to save his people from the terror of monster eagles that roamed the skies and carried off children. Killer-of-Enemies tricked one monster eagle into carrying him up to the eagle nest on the cliff where he killed the monster eagle and its family.

Killer-of-Enemies didn't know how to get down from the cliff. Just then, he saw an old woman approaching. It was Old Woman Bat.

Killer-of-Enemies called out. “Grandmother, help me. Take me down.”

Old Woman Bat looked all around but didn't see him.

Killer-of-Enemies called out again,. and again... and again.

Old Woman Bat saw him high in the eagle's nest. She came over to the cliff and began to climb. “What are you doing here?” she asked when she reached the top.

“Monster Eagle carried me up here. Please take me down.”

“Climb in my basket,” Old Woman Bat told him.

Killer of Enemies looked at the burden basket on the old woman's back. Its carrying strap was made of spider's silk.

“’That strap is too fine,” he said. “’It will break and I shall fall.”

“Nonsense! I've carried a bighorn sheep in this basket,” Old Woman Bat glared at him. “Get in and close your eyes. If you look, we will fall.”

Old Woman Bat clambered down the rock, singing a strange song. Her burden basket swayed wildly from side to side.

Killer-of-Enemies thought the spider thread would surely break, so he opened his eyes to look.

As soon as Kill-of-Enemies opened his eyes, he and Old Woman Bat crashed down from the cliff.




You get the idea... first of all, the single and double quotes are misused and all over the place. Second, if you're going to have a long narrated story within a story, don't do that single-double quote business. Just set it aside. Your readers are smart enough to know it's a story within a story told by Joe.
 

mirandashell

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That's a tricky one.....

Do you mind if I have a play?


=====


“Once, long ago,” Joe said, “Coyote decided to take a wife but didn't know who to choose.”

Joe explained that Bat asked, “’Why not take the wife of Hawk Chief? Hawk Chief has not been seen for many days. Perhaps he is not returning?" I see what you're doing but it does read a little awkwardly. Try reading it out loud. Or how about just continuing it in Joe's voice?

“Once, long ago,” Joe said, “Coyote decided to take a wife but didn't know who to choose.

Bat asked, “Why not take the wife of Hawk Chief? Hawk Chief has not been seen for many days. Perhaps he is not returning?"

I think the reader will understand that it and what comes after is in Joe's voice so the quote/speech marks aren't needed.

When Hawk Chief returned several days later, he became angry at Bat for giving such ill-considered advice. He picked Bat up and slung him with full force into a juniper bush. Poor Bat hung upside down in the bush, caught by his long, pointy-toed moccasins. He twisted and he turned. However much he struggled, he could not get free.”

With a grin, Joe finished, “And from that time on, bats hang upside down - even when they sleep.”

==========
Same with this bit:

Next example -

When Ray didn’t say anything more, Joe continued the story.

“Long ago, Killer-of-Enemies vowed to save his people from the terror of monster eagles that roamed the skies and carried off children. Killer-of-Enemies tricked one monster eagle into carrying him up to the eagle nest on the cliff where he killed the monster eagle and its family.

Killer-of-Enemies didn't know how to get down from the cliff. Just then, he saw an old woman approaching. It was Old Woman Bat.

Killer-of-Enemies called out. “Grandmother, help me. Take me down.”

Old Woman Bat looked all around but didn't see him.

Killer-of-Enemies called out again and again and again.

Finally, Old Woman Bat saw him high in the eagle's nest. She came over to the cliff and began to climb. “What are you doing here?" she asked when she reached the top.

“Monster Eagle carried me up here. Please take me down.”

“Climb in my basket.” Old Woman Bat told him.

Killer of Enemies looked at the burdened basket on the old woman's back. Its carrying strap was made of spider's silk.

“That strap is too fine,” he said. “It will break and I shall fall.”

“Nonsense! I've carried a bighorn sheep in this basket.” Old Woman Bat glared at him. “Get in and close your eyes. If you look, we will fall.”

Old Woman Bat clambered down the rock, singing a strange song. Her burdened basket swayed wildly from side to side.

Killer-of-Enemies thought the spider thread would surely break, so he opened his eyes to look.

As soon as Killer-of-Enemies opened his eyes, he and Old Woman Bat crashed down from the cliff.

Old Woman Bat landed first and broke her legs.

Killer-of-Enemies fell on top of her and was safe.

Old Woman Bat's broken legs soon mended, but from that day on her legs were short.”

=====
 

dpaterso

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Indeed, I had a "What the deuce?" reaction to the extra punctuation you seem to sprinkle into some of these sentences at random. I also didn't see the need for stuff like, "Joe explained that Bat asked," since Joe is telling the story -- why not just "Bat asked,"

-Derek
 

bonitakale

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I don't have any problem with the first versions--yeah, you got some punctuation wrong, but typos can be fixed. The second versions are awful. "I explained that Pat had said I looked good in red." It's bad.

I'd go with the quotations, or possibly with a block quote for the whole story.
 

maestrowork

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Right. The quotes are just distracting. We all know it's a narration by a character. Just set the block aside following a colon.
 

Sargentodiaz

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Thanks everybody for the input.

The hardest part is my editor wants me to "mark" all changes so I've got to color-code each and every " and ' !!!!! What fun that is.:Shrug:
 

Sargentodiaz

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Well, thanks to input from a lot of people - and having to make endless corrections - I rewrote them and my editor likes these changes -

Here’s the first one -

“Once, long ago,” Joe said, “Coyote decided to take a wife but didn't know whom to choose. Bat came along and asked Coyote why he did not take the wife of Hawk Chief who had not been seen for many days. Bat indicated that perhaps Hawk Chief was not returning.

“Hawk Chief returned several days later, angry that Bat had given such ill-considered advice. He picked up Bat and slung him with full force into a juniper bush. Poor Bat hung upside down in the bush, caught by his long pointy-toes moccasins. He twisted and turned and, however much he struggles, he could not get free.”

With a grin, Joe finished, “And from that time on, bats hang upside down - even when they sleep.”

And, here’s the second

“This one’s from the Chiricahua Apache,” Joe said. “I’m sure you’ve heard of them. Cochise was one.” Joe’s eyes opened slightly as he saw a hint of recognition in Ray’s eye. “Something wrong?” he asked.

Ray looked at him and smiled. “Nah, nothing. Just that the name sounded kinda personal for a moment.”

When Ray didn’t say anything more, Joe continued the story.

“Long ago, Killer-of-Enemies vowed to save his people from the terror of monster eagles that roamed the skies and carried off children. Killer-of-Enemies tricked one monster eagle into carrying him up to the eagle nest on the cliff where he killed the monster eagle and its family. Killer-of-Enemies didn't know how to get down from the cliff. Just then, he saw an old woman approaching. It was Old Woman Bat.

“Killer-of-Enemies called out. ‘Grandmother, help me. Take me down.’

“Old Woman Bat looked all around but didn't see him so Killer-of-Enemies called out again . . .and again . . . and again.

“Finally, Old Woman Bat saw him high in the eagle's nest. She came over to the cliff and began to climb. When she reached the top, she asked Killer-of-Enemies what he was doing there. He responded that Monster Eagle had carried him up there and begged Old Woman Bat to take him down.

Old Woman Bat told him. To get in her basked. Killer of Enemies looked at the burden basket on the old woman's back and saw its carrying strap was made of spider's silk. He complained that the strap was too fine and that it could break and he would fall.

Old Woman Bat glared at him and told him he was talking nonsense. She said that she had carried bighorn sheep in the basket and for him to get in and close his eyes. ‘If you look, we will fall,’ she told him. Old Woman Bat clambered down the rock, singing a strange song. Her burden basket swayed wildly from side to side.

“Killer-of-Enemies thought the spider thread would surely break, so he opened his eyes to look. As soon as Kill-of-Enemies opened his eyes, he and Old Woman Bat crashed down from the cliff.

“Old Woman Bat landed first and broke her legs.

“Killer-of-Enemies fell on top of her and was safe.

“Old Woman Bat's broken legs soon mended, but from that day on her legs were short.”
 
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